What is the criteria for "most rigorous" course load?

[Anonymous]

"When the colleges say "we are comparing you to other kids in your high school," how would the student know where they stand?"


It isn't a strictly linear comparison. It's a bit more general: you are among those taking lots of difficult classes, or you are among those taking some targeted difficult classes, or you are among those taking regular classes. You may have better stats in harder classes, but your classmate is a three generation double legacy crew star and took hard enough classes. You may be the star pianist, but the college has too many piano applicants, so they took the rock climber from your school. If a top college gets down to the level where the only difference to look at is to compare this kid's course schedule the that similar kid's course schedule, they will reject or defer both. A lower ranked school with no real yield protection issues will more likely accept both.

Bottom line: take the strongest schedule that makes sense for you, present a concise application with a clear through line, and apply to colleges where you can clearly and strongly articulate specifically why you want to go there (i.e., not "because its ranked in the top 10"), and what you have to offer to that particular school's actual programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD had the same experience when trying to figure out where she falls in the class. It seems like this could be included in SIS with the cumulative GPA. She never did find out.

DD definitely got the "most rigorous" designation with 12 APs, but I'd love some clarity on this for DC2, who does not want to take as many.

It's pretty clear to me that the "most rigorous" is the toughest schedule available. That should not be so hard to figure out. If DC2 does not want to take as many, that does not mean the schedule will not be rigorous--but, it won't be "most rigorous."
This is not rocket science.

That isn't true, and I'm also pretty sure "most rigorous" isn't actually a standard they have to comment on anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Equally tough or tougher than that of your classmates, with As and 5s on the AP exams or 6s-7s on IB exams.

\

This has nothing to do with the rigor of the schedule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"When the colleges say "we are comparing you to other kids in your high school," how would the student know where they stand?"


It isn't a strictly linear comparison. It's a bit more general: you are among those taking lots of difficult classes, or you are among those taking some targeted difficult classes, or you are among those taking regular classes. You may have better stats in harder classes, but your classmate is a three generation double legacy crew star and took hard enough classes. You may be the star pianist, but the college has too many piano applicants, so they took the rock climber from your school. If a top college gets down to the level where the only difference to look at is to compare this kid's course schedule the that similar kid's course schedule, they will reject or defer both. A lower ranked school with no real yield protection issues will more likely accept both.

Bottom line: take the strongest schedule that makes sense for you, present a concise application with a clear through line, and apply to colleges where you can clearly and strongly articulate specifically why you want to go there (i.e., not "because its ranked in the top 10"), and what you have to offer to that particular school's actual programs.

+1 Good advice

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here to clarify.

Questions above were asked by DC.

The Answers were provided by the counselor.

You now complain to the counselor. The questions were fair -they are dodging. If you don’t get a proper response go to the principal. Your student can’t possibly know whether or not to apply to top schools if you don’t know where your kid stands vis-a-vis “most rigorous” and whether or not they are checking off that box

Is it literally a checkbox?

If it were, there’d only be a single path of classes.

We're in APS but my kids' counselor was very up-front about it. She said there was a scale for her to check off -- "most rigorous" is the top, "very demanding" is the next down. Both my kids are in the "very demanding" category because they are W-L and not doing the IB Diploma or equivalent in number of AP classes, which is what it takes there to get the top rating. This was during class selection last year for my now 11th grader (older kid is now a college freshman). Older DC's transcript had 9 AP/IB/DE classes. 2nd DC on track to have 10, still not "most rigorous" but plenty of rigor for them.

I think some schools probably don't tell students/parents because they are trying to cut down on pressure to do more APs than a kid can handle but it's also not fair to not make the implications of schedule choices clear.

But a kid can do full IB but still not take calculus in 10th. There are so many variations that it seems a little subjective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DD had the same experience when trying to figure out where she falls in the class. It seems like this could be included in SIS with the cumulative GPA. She never did find out.

DD definitely got the "most rigorous" designation with 12 APs, but I'd love some clarity on this for DC2, who does not want to take as many.

FCPS does not do class rank. Period. So the counselor is not going to whisper it in her ear. It's a district-wide policy.

And again, rigor has nothing to do with what other kids are doing. It's not "I did better than you", it's "I took the most challenging courses I could handle".

[Anonymous]

UVA Dean said it's no a number of AP/IB classes but a whole rounded student. So if you have AP Lang, AP Lit, AP French, AP World History, AP US History, AP US Govt, AP Economics, AP Psch, AP Human Geography, AP Art History and thus have 12 APs it is not more rigorous than the person who took AP Lang, AP Lit, AP French, AP World History, AP Calc BC, AP Physics C who only took 6 but took them across all disciplines. They said it's less about a number and more about a picture whatever that means.

For what it is worth, my kid clearly can't go to UVA as she has severe dyslexia and cannot be successful in writing and reading intensive classes so no AP's in English or SS. Her APs were in math and science. By end of 12th she should have taken 9. Oh well. Other engineering schools will hopefully take her!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD had the same experience when trying to figure out where she falls in the class. It seems like this could be included in SIS with the cumulative GPA. She never did find out.

DD definitely got the "most rigorous" designation with 12 APs, but I'd love some clarity on this for DC2, who does not want to take as many.

FCPS does not do class rank. Period. So the counselor is not going to whisper it in her ear. It's a district-wide policy.

And again, rigor has nothing to do with what other kids are doing. It's not "I did better than you", it's "I took the most challenging courses I could handle".

I don’t think that’s true though is it? If they have to check the box as to whether a student is taking the most rigorous course schedule the question really is for that counselor, at that HS, what classes does my kid need to take to check the box?

My DS (10th grade) met with his counselor recently and had a similar experience. They don’t want the kids to be overextended, which is admirable, so they encourage kids not to take AP classes they aren’t really interested in…so in DS’ case he would prefer not to take AP Lang/Lit. His counselor seemed to be pushing him not to given his lack of interest. However, he tried to get a read on whether that would prevent his schedule from being considered the “most rigorous” and couldn’t get that info. He’s an A student so he could do AP Lang but he’s trying for balance as the kids are encouraged to do.

He told the counselor he’s aiming for top 50 schools so he wants to be on track for that in terms of class selection. His counselor said that she “went to a good college and didn’t take that many APs.” His counselor went to UVA in the 80s, so please tell me how that is a helpful comment? I went to an Ivy that there’s no way my kid is getting into today. UVA of all schools is probably the one where kids really, really need to get this rigorous box checked. My DS isn’t interested in UVA so that specific issue isn’t his, but I find it all a little maddening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD had the same experience when trying to figure out where she falls in the class. It seems like this could be included in SIS with the cumulative GPA. She never did find out.

DD definitely got the "most rigorous" designation with 12 APs, but I'd love some clarity on this for DC2, who does not want to take as many.

It's pretty clear to me that the "most rigorous" is the toughest schedule available. That should not be so hard to figure out. If DC2 does not want to take as many, that does not mean the schedule will not be rigorous--but, it won't be "most rigorous."
This is not rocket science.

But "most rigorous" isn't 1 top position it's a range. Basically APs/IBs in core classes junior and senior year, with a lab science and calculus among the AP/IBs. Another AP Sophomore year. Honors elsewhere. 9 APs/IBs seems to be the minimum for selective local public schools like UVA, UMD, W&M.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:UVA Dean said it's no a number of AP/IB classes but a whole rounded student. So if you have AP Lang, AP Lit, AP French, AP World History, AP US History, AP US Govt, AP Economics, AP Psch, AP Human Geography, AP Art History and thus have 12 APs it is not more rigorous than the person who took AP Lang, AP Lit, AP French, AP World History, AP Calc BC, AP Physics C who only took 6 but took them across all disciplines. They said it's less about a number and more about a picture whatever that means.

For what it is worth, my kid clearly can't go to UVA as she has severe dyslexia and cannot be successful in writing and reading intensive classes so no AP's in English or SS. Her APs were in math and science. By end of 12th she should have taken 9. Oh well. Other engineering schools will hopefully take her!

I think this poster gives a good example of what UVA is likely to consider most rigorous. I guess there could be variations like AP USH instead of AP World or AP Stat instead of AP Calc but you get the idea

[Anonymous]

rigor has nothing to do with what other kids are doing. It's not "I did better than you", it's "I took the most challenging courses I could handle"

No it doesn't!
What a ridiculous thing to say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

rigor has nothing to do with what other kids are doing. It's not "I did better than you", it's "I took the most challenging courses I could handle"

No it doesn't!
What a ridiculous thing to say.

+1
Rigor: I took the most challenging courses available.

[Anonymous]

OP here.
Thank you for the responses. It's good to know that some people have asked the same question and didn't get actual answers.

As far as physically checking the box, I did see on some common app screenshots where the counselor DOES check a box.
So if your kid is being rated, wouldn't it make sense to know the criteria?

Recently, DC applied to the Governor's school.
The rating sheet has these boxes for the counselor to check, and the applicant gets a number of points based on which box is checked.
But there are no actual criteria for each rating.

Course difficulty:
College Scholar- 8 points
Challenging- 7 points
Moderate Degree- 6 points
General Program- 5 points

So what we gather from this exercise are that rating matters! (maybe in the same way your raise might be based on your performance).

And when UVA stats say "89% of those we admit are in the top 10% of their class." Wouldn't it help to know if your kid, despite having a 4.0 GPA may not even be in the top 10% and should look elsewhere?

So what does it take to get that counselor to check that "most rigorous load" on the common app?

DC registered for 5 AP + 1 DE. Signed up for one regular "fun" class but if having ALL APs is what it takes, wouldn't that be good to know?
DC is capable of doing all APs, but if he didn't take all APs, is he not taking the MOST rigorous course load?
He'll end up with 10 APs and 2 DEs total.

I like what one college said:
We'd like to see at least one AP in each of the core subjects. Now there's something that's actionable!

[Anonymous]

So is DS in FCPS out of luck because he limited English to honors and foreign language to 4?

He DID/WILL take:
AP World, APUSH, Govt,
Physics C M, E and M,
Calc BC, Calc 3/Linear Alg, Stats,
CS-A and adv CS AB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So is DS in FCPS out of luck because he limited English to honors and foreign language to 4?

He DID/WILL take:
AP World, APUSH, Govt,
Physics C M, E and M,
Calc BC, Calc 3/Linear Alg, Stats,
CS-A and adv CS AB.

Is he applying CS/engineering? I think should be good, great actually if he is getting As. He still did foreign language up to level 4 and he is taking the most challenging science, math, and history courses available. Outside of TJ, I think very few kids in FCPS can take these and get As, so he should stand out.