If you are religious now and were non-religious before

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Collins gave several reasons for his faith, including his conviction, as one of the top DNA researchers in the country, that evolution is more than just the result of random changes to DNA.

It’s true that faith is apart from science. But focussing on waterfalls when there’s so much more in the podcast seems a little… petty.

Petty, but accurate. It seemed petty to me when I first heard Collins' account, years ago. I didn't listen to the podcast. I already knew about Collins' conversion

Collins didn’t even talk about waterfalls in this podcast. You can’t talk about Collins based on something he said “years ago.” Maybe his views have changed, but you have no clue.

Seriously, your posts need to be filled away as “irrelevant.”

Well, then check it out -- he was inspired by a three-part waterfall while hiking. Maybe he didn't mention it because it doesn't go over well.

Bottom Line -- the fact that a famous scientist is a Christian doesn't make Christianity more true.

and you can do whatever you like with my posts, including ignore them, if you find them "irrelevant"

From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Collins

"After several years of deliberation, he finally converted to Christianity during a trip to the Cascade Mountains, where he describes a striking image of a frozen waterfall as removing his final resistance, resulting in his conversion the following morning.[89] He has described himself as a "serious Christian".[31]"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NPR’s Up First podcast for today interviews Dr. Collins, who you may have heard talking about COVID, about his journey from atheism up science.

https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510318/up-first

It’s a really interesting podcast. Dr. Collins is a geneticist, he runs NIH, and he ran the Human Genome Project. Obama appointed him and then Trump and Biden reappointed him. He’s also an evangelical, but he’s a strong supporter of COVID vaccines and he talks a bit about how some evangelicals became skeptical, and some of the inconsistencies in their thinking he wants to help them understand. He talks about his conversion (spoiler: it involves patients and C.S. Lewis).

Spoiler - he was hiking when he saw a waterfall in three sections and thought it represented the trinity. (PS "trinity" is not mentioned in the bible.)

At any rate, he supports vaccines because he is a scientist. There is nothing about evangelical Christianity that is against vaccines, it's just that some stupid evangelicals are against them. Not all evangelicals are stupid, with Dr Collins as an example.

He thinks the processes of evolution (which he believes in) are too amazing to be completely random—and he’s a top geneticist. That’s a little more relevant than what he thinks about doctrinal issues like the trinity, souls or heaven (which are also covered in the podcast).

PS. With his scientific credentials, you can’t paint this guy as a flake.

PS, no one mentioned the word "flake" until you did. Collins is not a flake, just as many people who believe in God are not flakes. He is a rare scientist who talks about his belief in God.

I hope that you're not suggesting that because he believes in God that people should take the concept of religion more seriously. A lot of scientists - and other respectable and educated non-scientists, do not believe in god - and their non-belief has nothing to do with the likelihood of God existing or of the individuals being especially skilled in their professional pursuits.

Collins gives a scientific reason: that DNA is so miraculous he doesn’t believe the process is completely random. But by all means, keep talking about waterfalls.

Seperately, in the podcast, Collins points out that a third of scientists tell pollsters they believe in God.

Again this is is the Argument from Incredulity fallacy combined with the Argument from Authority fallacy.

Both arguments totally devoid of any of the type of evidence Dr. Collins requires for his science work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NPR’s Up First podcast for today interviews Dr. Collins, who you may have heard talking about COVID, about his journey from atheism up science.

https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510318/up-first

It’s a really interesting podcast. Dr. Collins is a geneticist, he runs NIH, and he ran the Human Genome Project. Obama appointed him and then Trump and Biden reappointed him. He’s also an evangelical, but he’s a strong supporter of COVID vaccines and he talks a bit about how some evangelicals became skeptical, and some of the inconsistencies in their thinking he wants to help them understand. He talks about his conversion (spoiler: it involves patients and C.S. Lewis).

Spoiler - he was hiking when he saw a waterfall in three sections and thought it represented the trinity. (PS "trinity" is not mentioned in the bible.)

At any rate, he supports vaccines because he is a scientist. There is nothing about evangelical Christianity that is against vaccines, it's just that some stupid evangelicals are against them. Not all evangelicals are stupid, with Dr Collins as an example.

He thinks the processes of evolution (which he believes in) are too amazing to be completely random—and he’s a top geneticist. That’s a little more relevant than what he thinks about doctrinal issues like the trinity, souls or heaven (which are also covered in the podcast).

PS. With his scientific credentials, you can’t paint this guy as a flake.

PS, no one mentioned the word "flake" until you did. Collins is not a flake, just as many people who believe in God are not flakes. He is a rare scientist who talks about his belief in God.

I hope that you're not suggesting that because he believes in God that people should take the concept of religion more seriously. A lot of scientists - and other respectable and educated non-scientists, do not believe in god - and their non-belief has nothing to do with the likelihood of God existing or of the individuals being especially skilled in their professional pursuits.

Collins gives a scientific reason: that DNA is so miraculous he doesn’t believe the process is completely random. But by all means, keep talking about waterfalls.

Seperately, in the podcast, Collins points out that a third of scientists tell pollsters they believe in God.

Again this is is the Argument from Incredulity fallacy combined with the Argument from Authority fallacy.

Both arguments totally devoid of any of the type of evidence Dr. Collins requires for his science work.

You keep calling these fallacies, but they may not be. In the case of DNA, we just don’t know. So you could be the one committing the fallacy by concluding a creator is NOT involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NPR’s Up First podcast for today interviews Dr. Collins, who you may have heard talking about COVID, about his journey from atheism up science.

https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510318/up-first

It’s a really interesting podcast. Dr. Collins is a geneticist, he runs NIH, and he ran the Human Genome Project. Obama appointed him and then Trump and Biden reappointed him. He’s also an evangelical, but he’s a strong supporter of COVID vaccines and he talks a bit about how some evangelicals became skeptical, and some of the inconsistencies in their thinking he wants to help them understand. He talks about his conversion (spoiler: it involves patients and C.S. Lewis).

Spoiler - he was hiking when he saw a waterfall in three sections and thought it represented the trinity. (PS "trinity" is not mentioned in the bible.)

At any rate, he supports vaccines because he is a scientist. There is nothing about evangelical Christianity that is against vaccines, it's just that some stupid evangelicals are against them. Not all evangelicals are stupid, with Dr Collins as an example.

He thinks the processes of evolution (which he believes in) are too amazing to be completely random—and he’s a top geneticist. That’s a little more relevant than what he thinks about doctrinal issues like the trinity, souls or heaven (which are also covered in the podcast).

PS. With his scientific credentials, you can’t paint this guy as a flake.

PS, no one mentioned the word "flake" until you did. Collins is not a flake, just as many people who believe in God are not flakes. He is a rare scientist who talks about his belief in God.

I hope that you're not suggesting that because he believes in God that people should take the concept of religion more seriously. A lot of scientists - and other respectable and educated non-scientists, do not believe in god - and their non-belief has nothing to do with the likelihood of God existing or of the individuals being especially skilled in their professional pursuits.

Collins gives a scientific reason: that DNA is so miraculous he doesn’t believe the process is completely random. But by all means, keep talking about waterfalls.

Seperately, in the podcast, Collins points out that a third of scientists tell pollsters they believe in God.

pp - if waterfalls are irrelevant, it seems odd that you keep bringing them up and encourage others to do so. about the polls, I haven't checked them myself, but if so, it means that a 2/3s majority of scientists do not believe in god.

Of course, there's no way of knowing if any supernatural beings actually exist because science can't be used to test for anything that is beyond nature. Faith is different. People can believe anything they want. Perhaps that is why there are so many different religions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NPR’s Up First podcast for today interviews Dr. Collins, who you may have heard talking about COVID, about his journey from atheism up science.

https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510318/up-first

It’s a really interesting podcast. Dr. Collins is a geneticist, he runs NIH, and he ran the Human Genome Project. Obama appointed him and then Trump and Biden reappointed him. He’s also an evangelical, but he’s a strong supporter of COVID vaccines and he talks a bit about how some evangelicals became skeptical, and some of the inconsistencies in their thinking he wants to help them understand. He talks about his conversion (spoiler: it involves patients and C.S. Lewis).

Spoiler - he was hiking when he saw a waterfall in three sections and thought it represented the trinity. (PS "trinity" is not mentioned in the bible.)

At any rate, he supports vaccines because he is a scientist. There is nothing about evangelical Christianity that is against vaccines, it's just that some stupid evangelicals are against them. Not all evangelicals are stupid, with Dr Collins as an example.

He thinks the processes of evolution (which he believes in) are too amazing to be completely random—and he’s a top geneticist. That’s a little more relevant than what he thinks about doctrinal issues like the trinity, souls or heaven (which are also covered in the podcast).

PS. With his scientific credentials, you can’t paint this guy as a flake.

PS, no one mentioned the word "flake" until you did. Collins is not a flake, just as many people who believe in God are not flakes. He is a rare scientist who talks about his belief in God.

I hope that you're not suggesting that because he believes in God that people should take the concept of religion more seriously. A lot of scientists - and other respectable and educated non-scientists, do not believe in god - and their non-belief has nothing to do with the likelihood of God existing or of the individuals being especially skilled in their professional pursuits.

Collins gives a scientific reason: that DNA is so miraculous he doesn’t believe the process is completely random. But by all means, keep talking about waterfalls.

Seperately, in the podcast, Collins points out that a third of scientists tell pollsters they believe in God.

Again this is is the Argument from Incredulity fallacy combined with the Argument from Authority fallacy.

Both arguments totally devoid of any of the type of evidence Dr. Collins requires for his science work.

You keep calling these fallacies, but they may not be. In the case of DNA, we just don’t know. So you could be the one committing the fallacy by concluding a creator is NOT involved.

Collins doesn't know how DNA works, and according to what you way, because he's religious, he thinks perhaps God is involved. If successful scientific experiments are done, perhaps scientists will know someday. Til then, religious people, like Collins can believe whatever they want. There are no limitations on what people can believe without requiring proof.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NPR’s Up First podcast for today interviews Dr. Collins, who you may have heard talking about COVID, about his journey from atheism up science.

https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510318/up-first

It’s a really interesting podcast. Dr. Collins is a geneticist, he runs NIH, and he ran the Human Genome Project. Obama appointed him and then Trump and Biden reappointed him. He’s also an evangelical, but he’s a strong supporter of COVID vaccines and he talks a bit about how some evangelicals became skeptical, and some of the inconsistencies in their thinking he wants to help them understand. He talks about his conversion (spoiler: it involves patients and C.S. Lewis).

Spoiler - he was hiking when he saw a waterfall in three sections and thought it represented the trinity. (PS "trinity" is not mentioned in the bible.)

At any rate, he supports vaccines because he is a scientist. There is nothing about evangelical Christianity that is against vaccines, it's just that some stupid evangelicals are against them. Not all evangelicals are stupid, with Dr Collins as an example.

He thinks the processes of evolution (which he believes in) are too amazing to be completely random—and he’s a top geneticist. That’s a little more relevant than what he thinks about doctrinal issues like the trinity, souls or heaven (which are also covered in the podcast).

PS. With his scientific credentials, you can’t paint this guy as a flake.

PS, no one mentioned the word "flake" until you did. Collins is not a flake, just as many people who believe in God are not flakes. He is a rare scientist who talks about his belief in God.

I hope that you're not suggesting that because he believes in God that people should take the concept of religion more seriously. A lot of scientists - and other respectable and educated non-scientists, do not believe in god - and their non-belief has nothing to do with the likelihood of God existing or of the individuals being especially skilled in their professional pursuits.

Collins gives a scientific reason: that DNA is so miraculous he doesn’t believe the process is completely random. But by all means, keep talking about waterfalls.

Seperately, in the podcast, Collins points out that a third of scientists tell pollsters they believe in God.

Again this is is the Argument from Incredulity fallacy combined with the Argument from Authority fallacy.

Both arguments totally devoid of any of the type of evidence Dr. Collins requires for his science work.

You keep calling these fallacies, but they may not be. In the case of DNA, we just don’t know. So you could be the one committing the fallacy by concluding a creator is NOT involved.

Lol. You got that bass-ackwards.

I made no claim about what was not involved.

I pointed out the well established logical fallacies the Dr. was committing.

I call them fallacies because they are fallacies.

[Anonymous]

So you started this thread to confront people who used to be atheists and are now religious? Okaaaayyyy…. No wonder nobody is engaging with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NPR’s Up First podcast for today interviews Dr. Collins, who you may have heard talking about COVID, about his journey from atheism up science.

https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510318/up-first

It’s a really interesting podcast. Dr. Collins is a geneticist, he runs NIH, and he ran the Human Genome Project. Obama appointed him and then Trump and Biden reappointed him. He’s also an evangelical, but he’s a strong supporter of COVID vaccines and he talks a bit about how some evangelicals became skeptical, and some of the inconsistencies in their thinking he wants to help them understand. He talks about his conversion (spoiler: it involves patients and C.S. Lewis).

Spoiler - he was hiking when he saw a waterfall in three sections and thought it represented the trinity. (PS "trinity" is not mentioned in the bible.)

At any rate, he supports vaccines because he is a scientist. There is nothing about evangelical Christianity that is against vaccines, it's just that some stupid evangelicals are against them. Not all evangelicals are stupid, with Dr Collins as an example.

He thinks the processes of evolution (which he believes in) are too amazing to be completely random—and he’s a top geneticist. That’s a little more relevant than what he thinks about doctrinal issues like the trinity, souls or heaven (which are also covered in the podcast).

PS. With his scientific credentials, you can’t paint this guy as a flake.

PS, no one mentioned the word "flake" until you did. Collins is not a flake, just as many people who believe in God are not flakes. He is a rare scientist who talks about his belief in God.

I hope that you're not suggesting that because he believes in God that people should take the concept of religion more seriously. A lot of scientists - and other respectable and educated non-scientists, do not believe in god - and their non-belief has nothing to do with the likelihood of God existing or of the individuals being especially skilled in their professional pursuits.

Collins gives a scientific reason: that DNA is so miraculous he doesn’t believe the process is completely random. But by all means, keep talking about waterfalls.

Seperately, in the podcast, Collins points out that a third of scientists tell pollsters they believe in God.

Again this is is the Argument from Incredulity fallacy combined with the Argument from Authority fallacy.

Both arguments totally devoid of any of the type of evidence Dr. Collins requires for his science work.

You keep calling these fallacies, but they may not be. In the case of DNA, we just don’t know. So you could be the one committing the fallacy by concluding a creator is NOT involved.

There's a lot we don't know in science, which is why we keep studying and doing experiments, to find out. Scientists never just conclude that "god did it!" and that includes scientists who believe in God, like Collins. Evidence is needed in science and not in religion.

[Anonymous]

In graduate school 20 years ago one of my mentors said something that has stuck with me: more people meet Jesus in prison and the emergency room than any other place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NPR’s Up First podcast for today interviews Dr. Collins, who you may have heard talking about COVID, about his journey from atheism up science.

https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510318/up-first

It’s a really interesting podcast. Dr. Collins is a geneticist, he runs NIH, and he ran the Human Genome Project. Obama appointed him and then Trump and Biden reappointed him. He’s also an evangelical, but he’s a strong supporter of COVID vaccines and he talks a bit about how some evangelicals became skeptical, and some of the inconsistencies in their thinking he wants to help them understand. He talks about his conversion (spoiler: it involves patients and C.S. Lewis).

Spoiler - he was hiking when he saw a waterfall in three sections and thought it represented the trinity. (PS "trinity" is not mentioned in the bible.)

At any rate, he supports vaccines because he is a scientist. There is nothing about evangelical Christianity that is against vaccines, it's just that some stupid evangelicals are against them. Not all evangelicals are stupid, with Dr Collins as an example.

He thinks the processes of evolution (which he believes in) are too amazing to be completely random—and he’s a top geneticist. That’s a little more relevant than what he thinks about doctrinal issues like the trinity, souls or heaven (which are also covered in the podcast).

PS. With his scientific credentials, you can’t paint this guy as a flake.

PS, no one mentioned the word "flake" until you did. Collins is not a flake, just as many people who believe in God are not flakes. He is a rare scientist who talks about his belief in God.

I hope that you're not suggesting that because he believes in God that people should take the concept of religion more seriously. A lot of scientists - and other respectable and educated non-scientists, do not believe in god - and their non-belief has nothing to do with the likelihood of God existing or of the individuals being especially skilled in their professional pursuits.

Collins gives a scientific reason: that DNA is so miraculous he doesn’t believe the process is completely random. But by all means, keep talking about waterfalls.

Seperately, in the podcast, Collins points out that a third of scientists tell pollsters they believe in God.

Again this is is the Argument from Incredulity fallacy combined with the Argument from Authority fallacy.

Both arguments totally devoid of any of the type of evidence Dr. Collins requires for his science work.

You keep calling these fallacies, but they may not be. In the case of DNA, we just don’t know. So you could be the one committing the fallacy by concluding a creator is NOT involved.

Collins doesn't know how DNA works, and according to what you way, because he's religious, he thinks perhaps God is involved. If successful scientific experiments are done, perhaps scientists will know someday. Til then, religious people, like Collins can believe whatever they want. There are no limitations on what people can believe without requiring proof.

Colins ran the Human Genome Project, which sequenced human DNA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So you started this thread to confront people who used to be atheists and are now religious? Okaaaayyyy…. No wonder nobody is engaging with you.

OP needs to get a life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NPR’s Up First podcast for today interviews Dr. Collins, who you may have heard talking about COVID, about his journey from atheism up science.

https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510318/up-first

It’s a really interesting podcast. Dr. Collins is a geneticist, he runs NIH, and he ran the Human Genome Project. Obama appointed him and then Trump and Biden reappointed him. He’s also an evangelical, but he’s a strong supporter of COVID vaccines and he talks a bit about how some evangelicals became skeptical, and some of the inconsistencies in their thinking he wants to help them understand. He talks about his conversion (spoiler: it involves patients and C.S. Lewis).

Spoiler - he was hiking when he saw a waterfall in three sections and thought it represented the trinity. (PS "trinity" is not mentioned in the bible.)

At any rate, he supports vaccines because he is a scientist. There is nothing about evangelical Christianity that is against vaccines, it's just that some stupid evangelicals are against them. Not all evangelicals are stupid, with Dr Collins as an example.

He thinks the processes of evolution (which he believes in) are too amazing to be completely random—and he’s a top geneticist. That’s a little more relevant than what he thinks about doctrinal issues like the trinity, souls or heaven (which are also covered in the podcast).

PS. With his scientific credentials, you can’t paint this guy as a flake.

PS, no one mentioned the word "flake" until you did. Collins is not a flake, just as many people who believe in God are not flakes. He is a rare scientist who talks about his belief in God.

I hope that you're not suggesting that because he believes in God that people should take the concept of religion more seriously. A lot of scientists - and other respectable and educated non-scientists, do not believe in god - and their non-belief has nothing to do with the likelihood of God existing or of the individuals being especially skilled in their professional pursuits.

Collins gives a scientific reason: that DNA is so miraculous he doesn’t believe the process is completely random. But by all means, keep talking about waterfalls.

Seperately, in the podcast, Collins points out that a third of scientists tell pollsters they believe in God.

Again this is is the Argument from Incredulity fallacy combined with the Argument from Authority fallacy.

Both arguments totally devoid of any of the type of evidence Dr. Collins requires for his science work.

You keep calling these fallacies, but they may not be. In the case of DNA, we just don’t know. So you could be the one committing the fallacy by concluding a creator is NOT involved.

Collins doesn't know how DNA works, and according to what you way, because he's religious, he thinks perhaps God is involved. If successful scientific experiments are done, perhaps scientists will know someday. Til then, religious people, like Collins can believe whatever they want. There are no limitations on what people can believe without requiring proof.

Colins ran the Human Genome Project, which sequenced human DNA.

Yes, and he himself says there are still mysteries in science. He thinks (according to what is said above) that God may be involved in evolution, but it sounds like any other thing in science - it's a mystery until it's figured out.

Remember the lightning rod that Ben Franklin invented? https://www.fi.edu/history-resources/franklins-lightning-rod . Before that, people thought lightning came from God.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you started this thread to confront people who used to be atheists and are now religious? Okaaaayyyy…. No wonder nobody is engaging with you.

OP needs to get a life.

Apparently the only person who listened to the podcast is the second poster—OP won’t deign to do so.

OP doesn’t want to listen, she only wants to criticize. I’ve seen several recent posts by people who said they used to be atheists and had recently returned to synagogue or church for spiritual reasons, but they obviously aren’t posting on this thread—that checks out, why bother.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you started this thread to confront people who used to be atheists and are now religious? Okaaaayyyy…. No wonder nobody is engaging with you.

OP needs to get a life.

Apparently the only person who listened to the podcast is the second poster—OP won’t deign to do so.

OP doesn’t want to listen, she only wants to criticize. I’ve seen several recent posts by people who said they used to be atheists and had recently returned to synagogue or church for spiritual reasons, but they obviously aren’t posting on this thread—that checks out, why bother.

So what? There are lots of people who become religious and lots who drop religion. It's a choice, like many other things in life. A difference with religion, is that it's forced on many as children, and even as adults, people can feel pressured to be (or at least act) religious, or be censured.

Luckily, that is changing, as more non-believers make themselves known.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you started this thread to confront people who used to be atheists and are now religious? Okaaaayyyy…. No wonder nobody is engaging with you.

OP needs to get a life.

Apparently the only person who listened to the podcast is the second poster—OP won’t deign to do so.

OP doesn’t want to listen, she only wants to criticize. I’ve seen several recent posts by people who said they used to be atheists and had recently returned to synagogue or church for spiritual reasons, but they obviously aren’t posting on this thread—that checks out, why bother.

So what? There are lots of people who become religious and lots who drop religion. It's a choice, like many other things in life. A difference with religion, is that it's forced on many as children, and even as adults, people can feel pressured to be (or at least act) religious, or be censured.

Luckily, that is changing, as more non-believers make themselves known.

So what? This is the actual thread topic.

Have you listened to the podcast yet, or are you intent on demonstrating that you never listen and just criticize?