What happened to Quince Orchard's USNews Rankings?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both of these schools have a good peer group as do most schools in the area. Buy a house where you want to live.. Your kids are 10 years from high school, there is no guarantee that anything about these schools will be the same when they are looking to attend.

When we moved 10 years ago, QO was a great school so we intentionally stayed in-bounds once we left the Kentlands. However, it now is very sports oriented (much more so than academic) as another person noted. FARMs has gone up to 30% which brings its own challenges, but test scores certainly haven’t been improving and chronic absenteeism is a problem. For the average student, Quince Orchard will be fine. One of my kids at Qo simply isn’t challenged academically and doesn’t have many peers who are as motivated as him like you’ll find at the W schools. Other kid, average academics, is doing just fine. Most teachers are good, admin seems to be preoccupied with sports and reducing inequities (which they haven’t done a good job of) while high achievers are left in the dark, taking dumbed down AP courses. The push for AP is WAY too much, it becomes as though “everyone take AP,” which diminishes rigor and ultimately AP scores

OP again, This is by far and away the most helpful post on this thread, thank you very much for the clear picture of what has been going on! I'd seen praises of QO by posts in 2011-2015 and it makes sense the rankings went down if the focus has gone primarily to athletics. I read elsewhere about the chronic absenteeism which is definitely questionable. I've heard the whole "admin seems to be preoccupied with sports and reducing inequities, leaving high achievers in the dark" seems to be a concern with all MCPS, which I guess we will just deal with since we probably don't have the funds for 12 years of private school. What you mentioned about everyone being pushed to do AP also makes sense as I noticed that Usnews reported a whopping 80% of students took one AP test but only 50% passed, which would indicate approximately 1/3 of all students in AP classes can't handle the material.

It seems like the "wait and move if necessary" poster is probably wise since high achieving students would likely flourish more at the W schools, but average kids could suffer from confidence or mental health issues at W schools.

Glad I can be of help! What I will say, is that it’s easy to stand out as a high achiever at QO, simply because there aren’t many. At the Ws and Magnets, it’s much, much harder to distinguish oneself. And with regard to AP, it’s also worth noting that plenty of students in AP courses opt out of the exam. My son did for 1 junior year, but that was because he had 5 other exams and already earned a 5 on the same subject exam. BUT, this is not the case, where many simply don’t take it because they won’t pass, which inflates an already low pass rate. With regard to SAT/ACT scores are low. Lower than one would think, especially given test optional. DC says he’d estimate that 80%+ went test optional, not because they didn’t test, but because scores were so low. W schools will provide more rigor, resources, and academic opportunity, but along with that comes more competition among peers.

[Anonymous]

Still, shifting the focus to sports doesn't seem to explain the huge sudden discrepancy between ranking in the 500s to ranking in the 2000s though...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Qo is a sports oriented school. Not an academically oriented school. You will find many parents who choose to live within the qo boundaries send their children to private. In return, the county pulls students in from far away for the equity initiative.

Quince Orchard does very well in sports because the school spirit is far superior than the rest of the high schools. When you have great school spirit you tend to have a lot of athletes going out for teams. In the ho him schools there are a lot of athletes who can’t be bothered to try out for the teams.

Many parents send theirs to private? Stats please.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Qo is a sports oriented school. Not an academically oriented school. You will find many parents who choose to live within the qo boundaries send their children to private. In return, the county pulls students in from far away for the equity initiative.

Quince Orchard does very well in sports because the school spirit is far superior than the rest of the high schools. When you have great school spirit you tend to have a lot of athletes going out for teams. In the ho him schools there are a lot of athletes who can’t be bothered to try out for the teams.

Many parents send theirs to private? Stats please.

In a previous thread, DCUM said QO uses ringers on sports teams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Still, shifting the focus to sports doesn't seem to explain the huge sudden discrepancy between ranking in the 500s to ranking in the 2000s though...

Because USNews rankings suck.
Sports have always been big at QO. It's not just the last 10 years
There is no way a school can change that drastically from one year to the next.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Qo is a sports oriented school. Not an academically oriented school. You will find many parents who choose to live within the qo boundaries send their children to private. In return, the county pulls students in from far away for the equity initiative.

Quince Orchard does very well in sports because the school spirit is far superior than the rest of the high schools. When you have great school spirit you tend to have a lot of athletes going out for teams. In the ho him schools there are a lot of athletes who can’t be bothered to try out for the teams.

Many parents send theirs to private? Stats please.

No, QO has good sports because of COSAs and students coming from out of bounds to attend Quince Orchard. Some send students private, but not a ton.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still, shifting the focus to sports doesn't seem to explain the huge sudden discrepancy between ranking in the 500s to ranking in the 2000s though...

Because USNews rankings suck.
Sports have always been big at QO. It's not just the last 10 years
There is no way a school can change that drastically from one year to the next.

Yes, but I’d argue sports are becoming of greater focus while less academics is becoming the trend. Most football players aren’t improving test scores, fwiw

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Qo is a sports oriented school. Not an academically oriented school. You will find many parents who choose to live within the qo boundaries send their children to private. In return, the county pulls students in from far away for the equity initiative.

Quince Orchard does very well in sports because the school spirit is far superior than the rest of the high schools. When you have great school spirit you tend to have a lot of athletes going out for teams. In the ho him schools there are a lot of athletes who can’t be bothered to try out for the teams.

Many parents send theirs to private? Stats please.

In a previous thread, DCUM said QO uses ringers on sports teams.

And those same people have never been able to produce a single name of a kid that is a ringer. The more the lie is told the more the clueless believe it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Qo is a sports oriented school. Not an academically oriented school. You will find many parents who choose to live within the qo boundaries send their children to private. In return, the county pulls students in from far away for the equity initiative.

Quince Orchard does very well in sports because the school spirit is far superior than the rest of the high schools. When you have great school spirit you tend to have a lot of athletes going out for teams. In the ho him schools there are a lot of athletes who can’t be bothered to try out for the teams.

Many parents send theirs to private? Stats please.

Oh please!! No. There is definitely great school spirit at qo but it's because the coaching staff pulls in top athletic talent from outside the school boundaries and that leads to more wins. Look around Twitter, Instagram and even other Montgomery County message boards. It's mentioned often. That means student athletes whose parents pay to live in the qo boundaries don't get as much playing time. There's a low grumble among parents about this and it will become an issue.

As for parents paying for private, take a walk around the kentlands after school and watch the private school kids roll in wearing school uniforms.

You have no clue. *athletes who can't be bothered to try out for teams*! That's a lark!

[Anonymous]

My child is at QO now, and is very into sports - the overwhelming amount of school spirit was the biggest draw to attend QO. They attended private school for elementary and middle school, and the other schools they were considering (Good Counsel and St. John’s) seemed similar sports wise to QO.

In my experience, it seems that some teachers are GREAT, others don’t seem to care much…we love the principal (Beth Thomas) but the support staff, attendance secretary, guidance counselors (likely overwhelmed) have been very lackluster, and seem to be disconnected/uninterested in the kids. AP courses are not really taught - kids are expected to memorize material on their own with little time spent going over the material. My older child has taken the same AP classes at a private school and actually learned the material vs quiz after quiz with no real emphasis on understanding the subject matter (of course the expectation is that students will read and prepare independently for AP classes but I think the actual scores the students get on the exams are indicative of the instruction provided). Math classes have not been great for us, and we will likely supplement. Foreign language has been a total bust so far. Overall, my child is happy and in a good place, so I am thankful, but I am concerned about the academics. I also found it disappointing that my child’s MAP scores actually went down over the past year. We were not happy with how QO handled virtual learning and were considering switching back to private but ultimately my child is SO GLAD they stayed.

There are a ton of positives to the school and QO really has something for everyone - theater, music, clubs, sports, and the kids at the school have genuine school spirit.

Like another PP said, your kids are young and a lot can change in 10 years. We do know several families zoned for QO that attend private, so if you are able to have that as a backup plan B, I think it’s a great idea to buy into the QO district - just know that with the redistributing, the boundaries can change unless you are walking distance to the school.

One last comment - people have mentioned the emphasis on sports, but athletics are the main driver for my child to want to go to school. My child has had great, inspirational coaches that really care about the kids and encourage them to do well in school and focus on their academics along with sports practice. My older child who went to private school was very academically driven and intrinsically motivated (would not have been into the rah rah spirit as much) so I’m sure QO would have been a different experience for them.

My biggest concern is with MCPS, and that will be an issue that has little to do with the school your child attends. I am an elem teacher and am fighting to incorporate a curriculum that is aligned with the Science of Reading, but MCPS is determined to stick with Benchmark. Not relevant but just wanted to add that your child will likely be okay with whatever high school they attend, but the direction MCPS is headed is troubling.

[Anonymous]

Their scorecard below indicates Math is below the district and state averages. There may have been some glitch in the reporting which has happened before (see article https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesda-beat/schools/mcps-cries-foul-over-magazines-top-high-school-rankings/

Took at Least One AP® Exam 80%
Passed at Least One AP® Exam 54%
Mathematics Proficiency 5%
Reading Proficiency 46%
Graduation Rate 92%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP with two younger kids (pre-K) looking at purchasing a home in the Quince Orchard or Wootton districts. We are leaning towards the QO area as you can get a better value of house for your money there it seems, and the neighborhood itself seems like a nice place. It seems like many PPs on this forum like QO too as a school overall, though some note Wootton is strictly better academic-wise but perhaps with a bit more pressure at times.

The one main concerning thing we've seen with QO is the Usnews ranking, which I've found to be a pretty good indicator of ranking at least regarding the different high schools we went to growing up. Anything above 1,000 tends to be a decent school.

It looks like back in 2019 QO was ranked a very respectable 533 in the nation.
https://patch.com/maryland/bethesda-chevychase/u-s-news-high-school-rankings-2019-heres-how-montgomery-fared

However in 2021, QO was ranked an atrocious 2,796 nationwide.
https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/maryland/districts/montgomery-county-public-schools/quince-orchard-high-school-9163

Did something happen, like a rezoning that lowered the quality of incoming students? I also see that the Math proficiency here is listed a paltry 5%, maybe is a typo that led to this low ranking?

We recognize that kids will do well based more so on their upbringing and personality rather than the raw quality of a school. However, a child's friends are extremely important and can really affect their outlook on life. Growing up I personally had a friend who probably would have gotten into trouble in the forms of drugs and early sex, if she had not been with the more studious-inclined friend group who persuaded her to avoid those things until after high school. We want to be sure that if we do move to the QO area, that DC will have the opportunity to easily surround themselves with friends who are academically inclined vs snoozing in class or worse.

Who cares about ranking? QO is a middle school in the county, not the best and not the worst. If you want special programs, it's not the school for you. However, neither is Wootton. Look at the school websites and see the programs they offer. I agree with other posters that it is an athletic school. I don't agree though that people specifically won't put their kid in the school. I think most parents went to private schools and will choose to send their kid to private schools.

[Anonymous]

People care about ranking on Usnews, Greatschools, because rankings help tell parents who don't have experience with the area, if the school is an objectively acceptable place to send their kids. Programs don't matter if those programs are underfunded and have little to no equipment, as people complain about QO's arts department (since all funding goes to sports).

Rankings can help parents decide things like: Hey, Northwest and QO are in close districts to each other and often compared, but Northwest has higher rankings. Let's buy a house in Darnestown instead of QO road.

[Anonymous]

We have absolutely decided not to buy a house in areas that have poor or even middle rankings. It brings housing prices down but the housing in that area is way over priced anyway

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child is at QO now, and is very into sports - the overwhelming amount of school spirit was the biggest draw to attend QO. They attended private school for elementary and middle school, and the other schools they were considering (Good Counsel and St. John’s) seemed similar sports wise to QO.

In my experience, it seems that some teachers are GREAT, others don’t seem to care much…we love the principal (Beth Thomas) but the support staff, attendance secretary, guidance counselors (likely overwhelmed) have been very lackluster, and seem to be disconnected/uninterested in the kids. AP courses are not really taught - kids are expected to memorize material on their own with little time spent going over the material. My older child has taken the same AP classes at a private school and actually learned the material vs quiz after quiz with no real emphasis on understanding the subject matter (of course the expectation is that students will read and prepare independently for AP classes but I think the actual scores the students get on the exams are indicative of the instruction provided). Math classes have not been great for us, and we will likely supplement. Foreign language has been a total bust so far. Overall, my child is happy and in a good place, so I am thankful, but I am concerned about the academics. I also found it disappointing that my child’s MAP scores actually went down over the past year. We were not happy with how QO handled virtual learning and were considering switching back to private but ultimately my child is SO GLAD they stayed.

There are a ton of positives to the school and QO really has something for everyone - theater, music, clubs, sports, and the kids at the school have genuine school spirit.

Like another PP said, your kids are young and a lot can change in 10 years. We do know several families zoned for QO that attend private, so if you are able to have that as a backup plan B, I think it’s a great idea to buy into the QO district - just know that with the redistributing, the boundaries can change unless you are walking distance to the school.

One last comment - people have mentioned the emphasis on sports, but athletics are the main driver for my child to want to go to school. My child has had great, inspirational coaches that really care about the kids and encourage them to do well in school and focus on their academics along with sports practice. My older child who went to private school was very academically driven and intrinsically motivated (would not have been into the rah rah spirit as much) so I’m sure QO would have been a different experience for them.

My biggest concern is with MCPS, and that will be an issue that has little to do with the school your child attends. I am an elem teacher and am fighting to incorporate a curriculum that is aligned with the Science of Reading, but MCPS is determined to stick with Benchmark. Not relevant but just wanted to add that your child will likely be okay with whatever high school they attend, but the direction MCPS is headed is troubling.

OP again, I deeply appreciate your post for giving a clear view of QO as well as you and your DC's experience with it! As a family we aren't into sports at all nor did we care for school spirit much in high school/college ourselves, the kids currently seem to treat what small exposure to sports they've had as any other activity but of course that may change. I can definitely see how QO might be great for someone who likes watching or playing in sports as everyone always commends the great school spirit.

Privates for high school only is probably possible to budget for (K-12 private is unfeasible for us), I just would prefer staying public K-12 for both monetary reasons and consistency in friends. However it sounds like what you worked out with QO for your sports-oriented kid and private for your academic-oriented one is really fantastic. What you said about MCPS in general is sad, you are fighting the good fight and I hope you are able to contribute to some meaningful change.

And also another thank you to the earlier poster's son for speaking a bit more about the situation with SATs and APs at QO. Good to know that the test scores reported aren't the full story as well.