Marc Elrich doesn’t think there “is demand for market housing.” He’s never going to fix our housing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue is that that price of land in the county has eclipsed the average wage/affordability. We have a lot of rich people in MoCo (as does surrounding counties of the DMV), but also lots of middle and lower income people too. Developers make better profits catering to the wealthier residents, but that market is tapped out. The demand for housing is enormous among lower and middle class residents, yet the speculative prices for land are just too high to cater to that demographic. How do we bridge the gap?

Summary: There is no more cheap land. But we still have insatiable demand among lower and middle-income residents. How do we fix it?

By enabling more housing to be built, including on land where there already is housing.

There's no reason to build low income housing if there is middle class demand.

Not sure what your point is? High housing costs aren't just burdening poor people, they're also burdening the middle-class people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue is that that price of land in the county has eclipsed the average wage/affordability. We have a lot of rich people in MoCo (as does surrounding counties of the DMV), but also lots of middle and lower income people too. Developers make better profits catering to the wealthier residents, but that market is tapped out. The demand for housing is enormous among lower and middle class residents, yet the speculative prices for land are just too high to cater to that demographic. How do we bridge the gap?

Summary: There is no more cheap land. But we still have insatiable demand among lower and middle-income residents. How do we fix it?

By enabling more housing to be built, including on land where there already is housing.

There's no reason to build low income housing if there is middle class demand.

If the middle class are getting squeezed, I guarantee it’s worse for her lower classes.

[Anonymous]

Elrich is incompetent but housing is an issue. The County, like the rest of the area, is growing in population.

If you look at areas like Silver Spring up Georgia Ave, Langley Park, and parts of Rockville (Rollins Ave behind the strip malls), there is lots of affordable housing there. High-rise apartment buildings or garden apartments. Nothing fancy, but nice enough and not too crazy price-wise.

But what's being built now if you look at Rockville or Bethesda where a lot of the high-density housing is going in, is luxury condos and apartments. I dont' blame the developer -- most of your costs are in the structure not the interior, so if it's $10mln to build low-income and $13mln to build luxury, spend the extra $3mln because you'll make it back in much higher rent/sales prices.

So how do we fix this? More incentives to build lower-price units? They already have to build 10-15% of units for low-income, but it's not enough.

Or maybe we zone parts of upcounty for high-density? How many apartment high-rises are there in Clarksburg?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Elrich is incompetent but housing is an issue. The County, like the rest of the area, is growing in population.

If you look at areas like Silver Spring up Georgia Ave, Langley Park, and parts of Rockville (Rollins Ave behind the strip malls), there is lots of affordable housing there. High-rise apartment buildings or garden apartments. Nothing fancy, but nice enough and not too crazy price-wise.

But what's being built now if you look at Rockville or Bethesda where a lot of the high-density housing is going in, is luxury condos and apartments. I dont' blame the developer -- most of your costs are in the structure not the interior, so if it's $10mln to build low-income and $13mln to build luxury, spend the extra $3mln because you'll make it back in much higher rent/sales prices.

So how do we fix this? More incentives to build lower-price units? They already have to build 10-15% of units for low-income, but it's not enough.

Or maybe we zone parts of upcounty for high-density? How many apartment high-rises are there in Clarksburg?

1. Clarksburg is almost built out.
2. There is a lot of multi-unit housing in Clarksburg.
3. Clarksburg is a really stupid place to build high-rise apartments (which is one reason why there aren't a lot of high-rise apartments in Clarksburg, even in places where it's allowed).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Elrich is incompetent but housing is an issue. The County, like the rest of the area, is growing in population.

If you look at areas like Silver Spring up Georgia Ave, Langley Park, and parts of Rockville (Rollins Ave behind the strip malls), there is lots of affordable housing there. High-rise apartment buildings or garden apartments. Nothing fancy, but nice enough and not too crazy price-wise.

But what's being built now if you look at Rockville or Bethesda where a lot of the high-density housing is going in, is luxury condos and apartments. I dont' blame the developer -- most of your costs are in the structure not the interior, so if it's $10mln to build low-income and $13mln to build luxury, spend the extra $3mln because you'll make it back in much higher rent/sales prices.

So how do we fix this? More incentives to build lower-price units? They already have to build 10-15% of units for low-income, but it's not enough.

Or maybe we zone parts of upcounty for high-density? How many apartment high-rises are there in Clarksburg?

1. Clarksburg is almost built out.
2. There is a lot of multi-unit housing in Clarksburg.
3. Clarksburg is a really stupid place to build high-rise apartments (which is one reason why there aren't a lot of high-rise apartments in Clarksburg, even in places where it's allowed).

If they're able t build new housing in Bethesda and Rockville, they can do it in Clarksburg. Those areas are way more built out than Clarksburg.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MoCos economy is trash. Developers aren't stupid. They don't want to build because there is no economy to support housing demand . Developers don't want to left holding a big bag of excrement.

Also, why must we constantly kowtow to low income interests? If you want to ruin nice areas, importing poverty is the way to do it. You are not entitled to live wherever you want. If you can't afford to live in an area you need to leave for more affordable COL.

Do you live here? Because if you do, then you must live in a bubble. There is a ton of new build, luxury TH/condos, starting price $800K. Economy here may be "trash" but it appears the housing market is a boom, and developers know it. They don't build a lot of low income housing, though every new development requires x % of affordable homes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue is that that price of land in the county has eclipsed the average wage/affordability. We have a lot of rich people in MoCo (as does surrounding counties of the DMV), but also lots of middle and lower income people too. Developers make better profits catering to the wealthier residents, but that market is tapped out. The demand for housing is enormous among lower and middle class residents, yet the speculative prices for land are just too high to cater to that demographic. How do we bridge the gap?

Summary: There is no more cheap land. But we still have insatiable demand among lower and middle-income residents. How do we fix it?

By enabling more housing to be built, including on land where there already is housing.

There's no reason to build low income housing if there is middle class demand.

If the middle class are getting squeezed, I guarantee it’s worse for her lower classes.

+1

Part of the homeless crisis in CA is due to the high housing costs.

UMC are buying homes that previously MC people could afford, which pushes the MC down to buy homes that previously LC people could afford, which pushes the LC out completely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Elrich is incompetent but housing is an issue. The County, like the rest of the area, is growing in population.

If you look at areas like Silver Spring up Georgia Ave, Langley Park, and parts of Rockville (Rollins Ave behind the strip malls), there is lots of affordable housing there. High-rise apartment buildings or garden apartments. Nothing fancy, but nice enough and not too crazy price-wise.

But what's being built now if you look at Rockville or Bethesda where a lot of the high-density housing is going in, is luxury condos and apartments. I dont' blame the developer -- most of your costs are in the structure not the interior, so if it's $10mln to build low-income and $13mln to build luxury, spend the extra $3mln because you'll make it back in much higher rent/sales prices.

So how do we fix this? More incentives to build lower-price units? They already have to build 10-15% of units for low-income, but it's not enough.

Or maybe we zone parts of upcounty for high-density? How many apartment high-rises are there in Clarksburg?

1. Clarksburg is almost built out.
2. There is a lot of multi-unit housing in Clarksburg.
3. Clarksburg is a really stupid place to build high-rise apartments (which is one reason why there aren't a lot of high-rise apartments in Clarksburg, even in places where it's allowed).

If they're able t build new housing in Bethesda and Rockville, they can do it in Clarksburg. Those areas are way more built out than Clarksburg.

Of course they CAN do it in Clarksburg. The question is whether it makes sense to do it in Clarksburg, where almost everything is less than 20 years old, and it's a long way to almost anything. Do you think developers will be eager to build 20-story apartment buildings next to the bus stop for the 75 RideOn at Harris Teeter? If Adventist Hospital had been allowed to build its hospital at Cabin Branch, AND if that regional rail line from Shady Grove to Frederick had been built, then it might have made sense. But instead we got an outlet mall and buses that run every 30 minutes to Germantown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MoCos economy is trash. Developers aren't stupid. They don't want to build because there is no economy to support housing demand . Developers don't want to left holding a big bag of excrement.

Also, why must we constantly kowtow to low income interests? If you want to ruin nice areas, importing poverty is the way to do it. You are not entitled to live wherever you want. If you can't afford to live in an area you need to leave for more affordable COL.

Because they're the ones who fix your dishwasher, stock the shelves at the stores you shop at, look after your children, clean your home and office, cook the food you eat at restaurants and wash the dishes after, draw your blood, schedule your appointments, pick up your garbage, and care for your elderly and sick family members. Who will do all of that for you if they "leave for more affordable COL"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Elrich is incompetent but housing is an issue. The County, like the rest of the area, is growing in population.

If you look at areas like Silver Spring up Georgia Ave, Langley Park, and parts of Rockville (Rollins Ave behind the strip malls), there is lots of affordable housing there. High-rise apartment buildings or garden apartments. Nothing fancy, but nice enough and not too crazy price-wise.

But what's being built now if you look at Rockville or Bethesda where a lot of the high-density housing is going in, is luxury condos and apartments. I dont' blame the developer -- most of your costs are in the structure not the interior, so if it's $10mln to build low-income and $13mln to build luxury, spend the extra $3mln because you'll make it back in much higher rent/sales prices.

So how do we fix this? More incentives to build lower-price units? They already have to build 10-15% of units for low-income, but it's not enough.

Or maybe we zone parts of upcounty for high-density? How many apartment high-rises are there in Clarksburg?

1. Clarksburg is almost built out.
2. There is a lot of multi-unit housing in Clarksburg.
3. Clarksburg is a really stupid place to build high-rise apartments (which is one reason why there aren't a lot of high-rise apartments in Clarksburg, even in places where it's allowed).

If they're able t build new housing in Bethesda and Rockville, they can do it in Clarksburg. Those areas are way more built out than Clarksburg.

Of course they CAN do it in Clarksburg. The question is whether it makes sense to do it in Clarksburg, where almost everything is less than 20 years old, and it's a long way to almost anything. Do you think developers will be eager to build 20-story apartment buildings next to the bus stop for the 75 RideOn at Harris Teeter? If Adventist Hospital had been allowed to build its hospital at Cabin Branch, AND if that regional rail line from Shady Grove to Frederick had been built, then it might have made sense. But instead we got an outlet mall and buses that run every 30 minutes to Germantown.

It's not idea but it can work. I think there's a false assumption that low-income people only travel by public transportation and that's just not true. Look at the success of the low-income housing neighborhood in Avenel in Potomac for example.

Sure, it may not be suitable for all low-income applicants, but it would probably work for a lot of people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The issue is that that price of land in the county has eclipsed the average wage/affordability. We have a lot of rich people in MoCo (as does surrounding counties of the DMV), but also lots of middle and lower income people too. Developers make better profits catering to the wealthier residents, but that market is tapped out. The demand for housing is enormous among lower and middle class residents, yet the speculative prices for land are just too high to cater to that demographic. How do we bridge the gap?

Summary: There is no more cheap land. But we still have insatiable demand among lower and middle-income residents. How do we fix it?

AND... the government and activists want to put low income housing on the MOST expensive land, rather than just achieving the most units by concentrating them on the cheapest land available in the county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Elrich is incompetent but housing is an issue. The County, like the rest of the area, is growing in population.

If you look at areas like Silver Spring up Georgia Ave, Langley Park, and parts of Rockville (Rollins Ave behind the strip malls), there is lots of affordable housing there. High-rise apartment buildings or garden apartments. Nothing fancy, but nice enough and not too crazy price-wise.

But what's being built now if you look at Rockville or Bethesda where a lot of the high-density housing is going in, is luxury condos and apartments. I dont' blame the developer -- most of your costs are in the structure not the interior, so if it's $10mln to build low-income and $13mln to build luxury, spend the extra $3mln because you'll make it back in much higher rent/sales prices.

So how do we fix this? More incentives to build lower-price units? They already have to build 10-15% of units for low-income, but it's not enough.

Or maybe we zone parts of upcounty for high-density? How many apartment high-rises are there in Clarksburg?

1. Clarksburg is almost built out.
2. There is a lot of multi-unit housing in Clarksburg.
3. Clarksburg is a really stupid place to build high-rise apartments (which is one reason why there aren't a lot of high-rise apartments in Clarksburg, even in places where it's allowed).

If they're able t build new housing in Bethesda and Rockville, they can do it in Clarksburg. Those areas are way more built out than Clarksburg.

Of course they CAN do it in Clarksburg. The question is whether it makes sense to do it in Clarksburg, where almost everything is less than 20 years old, and it's a long way to almost anything. Do you think developers will be eager to build 20-story apartment buildings next to the bus stop for the 75 RideOn at Harris Teeter? If Adventist Hospital had been allowed to build its hospital at Cabin Branch, AND if that regional rail line from Shady Grove to Frederick had been built, then it might have made sense. But instead we got an outlet mall and buses that run every 30 minutes to Germantown.

It's not idea but it can work. I think there's a false assumption that low-income people only travel by public transportation and that's just not true. Look at the success of the low-income housing neighborhood in Avenel in Potomac for example.

Sure, it may not be suitable for all low-income applicants, but it would probably work for a lot of people.

The topic was high-rise apartments, not housing for low-income people. With almost all of the housing in Clarksburg being new and thus subject to the MPDU requirements, Clarksburg already has a lot of housing for low-income people. In some of the developments, 25% of the units are MPDUs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue is that that price of land in the county has eclipsed the average wage/affordability. We have a lot of rich people in MoCo (as does surrounding counties of the DMV), but also lots of middle and lower income people too. Developers make better profits catering to the wealthier residents, but that market is tapped out. The demand for housing is enormous among lower and middle class residents, yet the speculative prices for land are just too high to cater to that demographic. How do we bridge the gap?

Summary: There is no more cheap land. But we still have insatiable demand among lower and middle-income residents. How do we fix it?

AND... the government and activists want to put low income housing on the MOST expensive land, rather than just achieving the most units by concentrating them on the cheapest land available in the county.

How did we get from rezoning to allow duplexes to "putting low income housing on the MOST expensive land"?

Not to mention that it would be housing policy (I guess) for the county to (somehow) finance and build 50 high-rise towers for poor people on cheap land next to the Dickerson incinerator, but it wouldn't be good housing policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue is that that price of land in the county has eclipsed the average wage/affordability. We have a lot of rich people in MoCo (as does surrounding counties of the DMV), but also lots of middle and lower income people too. Developers make better profits catering to the wealthier residents, but that market is tapped out. The demand for housing is enormous among lower and middle class residents, yet the speculative prices for land are just too high to cater to that demographic. How do we bridge the gap?

Summary: There is no more cheap land. But we still have insatiable demand among lower and middle-income residents. How do we fix it?

By enabling more housing to be built, including on land where there already is housing.

There's no reason to build low income housing if there is middle class demand.

Not sure what your point is? High housing costs aren't just burdening poor people, they're also burdening the middle-class people.

My point is that another more lucrative markets exists and developers will chase that market instead. As long as there are buyers for the higher priced homes, the market isn't going to chase lower profits. The time to build any home is practically the same regardless of final price. Developers choose to maximize the returns for their efforts.

[Anonymous]

There's plenty of land available. It's just preserved for no reason.