Golden retriever size - choosing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think smaller is better. My grandma had an unusually large golden (he ended up way bigger than expected, maybe 90+ pounds he could stand with his paws on my 6' Dad's shoulders) and he would actually knock people down when he was a puppy and straight up dragged me on the leash one time. My grandma had multiple other Goldens but this one was a lot harder to handle.

I agree. But it's hard to find one as it is without now needing a certain size. The mom of the pups is 80 lbs. is that unusual?

I mean is she 80 pounds typically or is she 80 pounds pregnant? 80 pounds is bigger than standard but a pregnant dog is obviously going to weigh more.

Pups are 6 weeks. Breeder said she's a big dog and 80
Is that weird they bred her?

How many adult females do they have? If they have an adult female that was never spayed, then they obviously intended to breed her. There’s a huge demand for puppies right now. It’s not at all weird that they bred her. Whether they should have is a different question. She doesn’t conform to the breed standard, so what was their motivation for breeding her?

They have 4 adults

[Anonymous]

We had a golden that was over size for breed standard and he was the best dog ever. So calm, loving and well behaved and lived to be 13. I think he was about 90 pounds, but I could be wrong. So I don't think large size is itself disqualifying assuming they seem like a responsible breeder and the parents have their health clearances. I also wouldn't assume that larger is harder to manage or train.

Our current golden is about 70, I think, and is also a male.

The duck trolling retrievers are totally different dogs, temperament wise -- they have higher energy/exercise needs, and they are known as more "intelligent" (which often means more independent and harder to train, like aussies or poodles are intelligent). They are good dogs but not "easy" like goldens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:80 is too big for a female Golden. 55-65 is more typical. I would worry about health issues. What health tests did they do on the parents? Have you seen the results? Goldens can have a slew of genetic health issues. Do not get a Golden without health certifications.

https://grca.org/find-a-golden/about-breeders/selecting-a-breeder/

The 80 lbs is a huge red flag for me. I have rescued Goldens and we often saw this huge poorly bred Goldens that were gigantic. Some as big as 100 lbs. I would not get a Golden that large unless it was a rescue adult (I'm ok with big dogs, but breeding well out of the standard says they don't care about the breed standard at all--just what sells). If they don't show their dogs, that's another red flag (although I have seen some good breeders who are not big show dog people, but rather participate in other AKC/CKC activities like agility, etc.).

A well bred Golden will usually require a wait list.

Ugh thanks. They have their clearances. But I think she said the mom is 80lbs. So if she has clearances and so does the dad, are the puppies fine?

I would go further than that. There's more to it than health certs. That's a bare minimum and only tells you they have tested the parents. How are they raised? In the home or a kennel/barn? When are they weaned? Have you talked to anyone who has bought a puppy from them before? Do they show dogs and therefore care about the breed standards (I'm guessing no given the size of their dogs) and advancing healthy and desirable characteristics through selective breeding? How far back of a pedigree can they provide you? How much in-line breeding is there in the pedigree (another sign of lazy breeding) particularly in the last couple of generations? How often do they breed the mother? How many times are the females bred before they are retired? What happens if you end up with a pup with a health issue? Get the contract you'd sign and READ IT. What sort of after-sale support and information do they provide? Do they require spay/neuter within a certain age (for goldens they should require >1 year old, no younger for sure)? Do they require you return the pup if you can't keep it? How did they select the parents of this litter? Ask to see where the puppies have been kept. Is it clean? Is it in a home environment where they are exposed to the sights and sounds of home living? How do they choose the puppy for the family? Do they ask questions about lifestyle and do temperament matching? Do they interview YOU to make sure you are a suitable pet parent?

I had all of these questions for the last breeder I chose and still overlooked a couple of red flags (small ones, easily missed during a pandemic) and ended up with a puppy with intestinal parasites that we really struggled to clear. I believe this is due to the environment where they kept the pups. We really wanted a puppy and struggled to find one without a 1000 mile drive or a year long wait list. In hind sight we would have been fine waiting, or should have started the process sooner, and we are happy with our pup, but don't overlook red flags just because you really want a dog. I know what it's like after you've spent time researching, thinking, discussing, and planning, and now you're ready to make the leap! I also know the heartache of losing a dog to a genetic issue (not 100% preventable through screening breeders) and the expense of treating a major health problem! I've also seen so many pups who came into rescue because they were poorly matched to the family (high energy puppy and family who is never home?? recipe for disaster!) and require intensive work to make them adoptable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:80 is too big for a female Golden. 55-65 is more typical. I would worry about health issues. What health tests did they do on the parents? Have you seen the results? Goldens can have a slew of genetic health issues. Do not get a Golden without health certifications.

https://grca.org/find-a-golden/about-breeders/selecting-a-breeder/

The 80 lbs is a huge red flag for me. I have rescued Goldens and we often saw this huge poorly bred Goldens that were gigantic. Some as big as 100 lbs. I would not get a Golden that large unless it was a rescue adult (I'm ok with big dogs, but breeding well out of the standard says they don't care about the breed standard at all--just what sells). If they don't show their dogs, that's another red flag (although I have seen some good breeders who are not big show dog people, but rather participate in other AKC/CKC activities like agility, etc.).

A well bred Golden will usually require a wait list.

This is ridiculous and you are giving OP a lot of bad information. Well bred retrievers from good breeders average between 70 and 90 pounds. I’ve worked with many breeders. Maybe you are handling scrawny rescues but the 50 pound golden retriever you’re describing is not the norm.

[Anonymous]

Also, not everyone knows this, but for AKC registered dogs, you can check all the registered siblings, parents, ancestors, aunts/uncles, etc., going back many years. And they've now started listing date of death and cause of death (that may not be available for past generations, because I think they didn't previously require it). You can also see all their clearances (note that previously only hip and eye were required). Here's an example from a golden:

https://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=168104

Any breeder that doesn't disclose all of this and won't answer questions about it is suspect as they may not be following the breed best practices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:80 is too big for a female Golden. 55-65 is more typical. I would worry about health issues. What health tests did they do on the parents? Have you seen the results? Goldens can have a slew of genetic health issues. Do not get a Golden without health certifications.

https://grca.org/find-a-golden/about-breeders/selecting-a-breeder/

The 80 lbs is a huge red flag for me. I have rescued Goldens and we often saw this huge poorly bred Goldens that were gigantic. Some as big as 100 lbs. I would not get a Golden that large unless it was a rescue adult (I'm ok with big dogs, but breeding well out of the standard says they don't care about the breed standard at all--just what sells). If they don't show their dogs, that's another red flag (although I have seen some good breeders who are not big show dog people, but rather participate in other AKC/CKC activities like agility, etc.).

A well bred Golden will usually require a wait list.

This is ridiculous and you are giving OP a lot of bad information. Well bred retrievers from good breeders average between 70 and 90 pounds. I’ve worked with many breeders. Maybe you are handling scrawny rescues but the 50 pound golden retriever you’re describing is not the norm.

We can agree to disagree, but the GRCA and AKC state 55-65 is standard for a female and 65-75 for a male. On the contrary, in rescue I saw quite a few that were on or above the upper range, often because they were overweight but also because they were just bred that way. I have had 4 female goldens in my lifetime and they were all within that 55-65 range and the two males I had were upper 60s/low 70s. 50 lbs, which I did not mention, would also be below breed standard and is either an underweight dog, small, or genetically predisposed to be small. One rescue female I fostered was 50 but it was due to a heavy load of heartworm. Once she overcame that she went back to her healthy weight of 60 lbs.

[Anonymous]

OP, ask the breeder why she chose to breed this mom to this dad. What does each dog bring to the pairing that balances the other out and stacks the deck towards healthy, solid temperaments for pups?

Mom is clearly out of standard, but maybe dad is super small? Maybe mom has the best hips ever despite that, or her line is clear of cancer (which plagues 95% of goldens). Being large isn't an automatic no, it's just a massive red flag that the breeder may be overlooking other things as well.

[Anonymous]

Just tell us the breeder and we’ll tell you if they look sketchy.

[Anonymous]

At the risk of making sweeping generalizations, the fact that this Golden Retriever breeder is calling to tell you they have multiple available puppies is a red enough flag on its own that this is not a top notch breeding operation. Most have waitlists before the breeding even happens. That said, 4 adult dogs doesn't sound like a puppy mill so much as a backyard breeder, and if you're not looking to show or improve the breed yourself, there's nothing wrong with buying the kind of puppy you want from a situation where no adult dogs are being treated poorly to turn a profit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At the risk of making sweeping generalizations, the fact that this Golden Retriever breeder is calling to tell you they have multiple available puppies is a red enough flag on its own that this is not a top notch breeding operation. Most have waitlists before the breeding even happens. That said, 4 adult dogs doesn't sound like a puppy mill so much as a backyard breeder, and if you're not looking to show or improve the breed yourself, there's nothing wrong with buying the kind of puppy you want from a situation where no adult dogs are being treated poorly to turn a profit.

There 4 adult girls and 4 boys. So 8 total I think.

[Anonymous]

How big are you? I have a 6 month old puppy that is 34 lbs right now and she can yank pretty hard. Remember that your puppy will get big before it is fully trained and chill and you need to be able to control it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At the risk of making sweeping generalizations, the fact that this Golden Retriever breeder is calling to tell you they have multiple available puppies is a red enough flag on its own that this is not a top notch breeding operation. Most have waitlists before the breeding even happens. That said, 4 adult dogs doesn't sound like a puppy mill so much as a backyard breeder, and if you're not looking to show or improve the breed yourself, there's nothing wrong with buying the kind of puppy you want from a situation where no adult dogs are being treated poorly to turn a profit.

There 4 adult girls and 4 boys. So 8 total I think.

It is pretty unusual to still have dogs at 6 weeks. There are usually waiting lists for litters of goldens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At the risk of making sweeping generalizations, the fact that this Golden Retriever breeder is calling to tell you they have multiple available puppies is a red enough flag on its own that this is not a top notch breeding operation. Most have waitlists before the breeding even happens. That said, 4 adult dogs doesn't sound like a puppy mill so much as a backyard breeder, and if you're not looking to show or improve the breed yourself, there's nothing wrong with buying the kind of puppy you want from a situation where no adult dogs are being treated poorly to turn a profit.

There 4 adult girls and 4 boys. So 8 total I think.

I wouldn't buy from this place, because that is a high enough number that I'm assuming they keep them mostly kenneled or caged to prevent unplanned pairings. Have you visited? If the adult dogs can't live indoors like pets, I don't want to support the operation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How big are you? I have a 6 month old puppy that is 34 lbs right now and she can yank pretty hard. Remember that your puppy will get big before it is fully trained and chill and you need to be able to control it.

I'm 108lbs. Help lol. But would I really control a 65 lb dog any more than a 75 lb?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How big are you? I have a 6 month old puppy that is 34 lbs right now and she can yank pretty hard. Remember that your puppy will get big before it is fully trained and chill and you need to be able to control it.

I'm 108lbs. Help lol. But would I really control a 65 lb dog any more than a 75 lb?

Once a dog is trained and has nice leash manners, that 10 lb difference is meaningless, but pp is talking about how much faster a puppy that could be 85 lbs full grown will reach, say, 50 lbs — possibly well before it is calm and has good leash manners.