We know ACPS is bad but WHY

[Anonymous]

I posted on the other thread that we moved. Many of those people also send the kids to private school as they get older. Once you are inside the schools you see the older grades have a lot of kids that come from poverty and face issues in their life that are bigger than the current school day. This has not changed and likely will not change.

This is true, but they are generally not in the same classes as the middle class/upper middle class students whose parents would be concerned about this. My son's (middle school) classes have racial diversity, but not really socioeconomic diversity (except in the sense that some kids are wealthy and some are truly middle class, in the real sense, not the sense that it is used by some on DCUM to mean less than super rich), according to him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted on the other thread that we moved. Many of those people also send the kids to private school as they get older. Once you are inside the schools you see the older grades have a lot of kids that come from poverty and face issues in their life that are bigger than the current school day. This has not changed and likely will not change.

+100.

Currently have a 5th grader in ACPS.

Do you plan to move, go private, or stay in ACPS?

I would like to move or go private, but due to income will most likely be staying in ACPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted on the other thread that we moved. Many of those people also send the kids to private school as they get older. Once you are inside the schools you see the older grades have a lot of kids that come from poverty and face issues in their life that are bigger than the current school day. This has not changed and likely will not change.

+100.

Currently have a 5th grader in ACPS.

Do you plan to move, go private, or stay in ACPS?

I would like to move or go private, but due to income will most likely be staying in ACPS.

Thanks for your response PP. Private schools are truly insane, cost wise! And the real estate market makes it hard to move. We are in a similar position.

[Anonymous]

Adverse selection. Alexandria has a robust enough private school infrastructure that well-to-do parents can opt out. The result is greater concentration of problem children and underperformers as you get to higher grades. A lot of it dates back to the desegregation era, but the same effect can be found in jurisdictions that were never formally segregated to begin with. Other school districts avoided this by adding choice schools and being larger in general, which gave them flexibility to shuffle around pyramids just enough to prevent a mass exodus to private schools while still nominally desegregating. Over time many of those jurisdictions were able to gradually improve their racial and socioeconomic mix (though some took this more seriously than others).

ACPS was too small for this, and now they're stuck. If they open a second high school they'll unleash a mad scramble to get "good" kids in the "good" school and avoid getting put in the "bad" school. If they manage to fight off those forces and open a second high school with identical demographics then they won't actually do a better job of retaining all those kids who are currently going private. So they just keep plugging along.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Adverse selection. Alexandria has a robust enough private school infrastructure that well-to-do parents can opt out. The result is greater concentration of problem children and underperformers as you get to higher grades. A lot of it dates back to the desegregation era, but the same effect can be found in jurisdictions that were never formally segregated to begin with. Other school districts avoided this by adding choice schools and being larger in general, which gave them flexibility to shuffle around pyramids just enough to prevent a mass exodus to private schools while still nominally desegregating. Over time many of those jurisdictions were able to gradually improve their racial and socioeconomic mix (though some took this more seriously than others).

ACPS was too small for this, and now they're stuck. If they open a second high school they'll unleash a mad scramble to get "good" kids in the "good" school and avoid getting put in the "bad" school. If they manage to fight off those forces and open a second high school with identical demographics then they won't actually do a better job of retaining all those kids who are currently going private. So they just keep plugging along.

OP here. Super helpful. Thanks.

It is so frustrating. We love Alexandria but don't want 50k/yr in private tuition. And we don't believe in the schools' capacity for change. So, it looks like moving. And it's really a shame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Adverse selection. Alexandria has a robust enough private school infrastructure that well-to-do parents can opt out. The result is greater concentration of problem children and underperformers as you get to higher grades. A lot of it dates back to the desegregation era, but the same effect can be found in jurisdictions that were never formally segregated to begin with. Other school districts avoided this by adding choice schools and being larger in general, which gave them flexibility to shuffle around pyramids just enough to prevent a mass exodus to private schools while still nominally desegregating. Over time many of those jurisdictions were able to gradually improve their racial and socioeconomic mix (though some took this more seriously than others).

ACPS was too small for this, and now they're stuck. If they open a second high school they'll unleash a mad scramble to get "good" kids in the "good" school and avoid getting put in the "bad" school. If they manage to fight off those forces and open a second high school with identical demographics then they won't actually do a better job of retaining all those kids who are currently going private. So they just keep plugging along.

OP here. Super helpful. Thanks.

It is so frustrating. We love Alexandria but don't want 50k/yr in private tuition. And we don't believe in the schools' capacity for change. So, it looks like moving. And it's really a shame.

DP: I agree totally what the early poster about the unique challenges for ACPS. For years, ACPS has not been good enough to overcome them (as not elsewhere because of outdated curriculum / poor leadership etc). But, ACPS’s failures fall most heavily on students who need the most help. If your child is bright and neurotypical, he or she can still do well in ACPS as can be seen by the college list for ACHS seniors each year.

[Anonymous]

ACPS was too small for this, and now they're stuck. If they open a second high school they'll unleash a mad scramble to get "good" kids in the "good" school and avoid getting put in the "bad" school. If they manage to fight off those forces and open a second high school with identical demographics then they won't actually do a better job of retaining all those kids who are currently going private. So they just keep plugging along.

They really need a second high school. ACHS is too big for students to access things. My son did not make the JV soccer or tennis teams (he plays travel and competitive tennis), had difficulty getting involved in the robotics club. It is just not accessible, too many students. I don't care how they divide it, they need to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

ACPS was too small for this, and now they're stuck. If they open a second high school they'll unleash a mad scramble to get "good" kids in the "good" school and avoid getting put in the "bad" school. If they manage to fight off those forces and open a second high school with identical demographics then they won't actually do a better job of retaining all those kids who are currently going private. So they just keep plugging along.

They really need a second high school. ACHS is too big for students to access things. My son did not make the JV soccer or tennis teams (he plays travel and competitive tennis), had difficulty getting involved in the robotics club. It is just not accessible, too many students. I don't care how they divide it, they need to do so.

+1 on the sports aspect. TC fields one baseball program. That's JV and Varsity. Roster is 36 kids. School is 4500 students. Langley HS in Mclean has the same size roster but only 1900 students.

Do the math.

This is true for Soccer and Football as well. Hundreds of kids every year are turned away from playing their chosen sport.

It will never change because this will always be a one party town.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

ACPS was too small for this, and now they're stuck. If they open a second high school they'll unleash a mad scramble to get "good" kids in the "good" school and avoid getting put in the "bad" school. If they manage to fight off those forces and open a second high school with identical demographics then they won't actually do a better job of retaining all those kids who are currently going private. So they just keep plugging along.

They really need a second high school. ACHS is too big for students to access things. My son did not make the JV soccer or tennis teams (he plays travel and competitive tennis), had difficulty getting involved in the robotics club. It is just not accessible, too many students. I don't care how they divide it, they need to do so.

Agreed. ACHS student enrollment is size of a small college without the resources to support it. Not only is the school physically busting at the seams, but both students and teachers have missed opportunities. Kids don’t get the chance to participate in activities or programs and teachers have to manage too many students. The City had a missed opportunity to negotiate space at Landmark for construction of a school. And there are ways to ensure fairness in school assignments. It’s not like other places haven’t figured out how to do it!

ACPS truly lacks creativity to think outside the box and is set in old ways of thinking and doing. I mean, their excuse for failing to implement a robust outdoor lunch plan for COVID mitigation was that the schools are overcrowded (exactly why kids shouldn’t eat indoors!) and outdoor air quality may be poor (meanwhile, one of the middle schools has documented mold for years). This all became even more pronounced during the pandemic and more families have fled for privates, unlikely to return.

I also think ACPS is misguided in its use of the concept of “equity.” Rather than applying the principle to lift students up, it becomes a crutch and excuse for saying no and why they can’t do things that seem obvious (eg. “Nobody should get outdoor lunch because some schools don’t have as much open space. Thus, all students will be stuck inside to make it ‘equitable’.”)

It really is a tragedy for the entire Alexandria City community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

ACPS was too small for this, and now they're stuck. If they open a second high school they'll unleash a mad scramble to get "good" kids in the "good" school and avoid getting put in the "bad" school. If they manage to fight off those forces and open a second high school with identical demographics then they won't actually do a better job of retaining all those kids who are currently going private. So they just keep plugging along.

They really need a second high school. ACHS is too big for students to access things. My son did not make the JV soccer or tennis teams (he plays travel and competitive tennis), had difficulty getting involved in the robotics club. It is just not accessible, too many students. I don't care how they divide it, they need to do so.

Agreed. ACHS student enrollment is size of a small college without the resources to support it. Not only is the school physically busting at the seams, but both students and teachers have missed opportunities. Kids don’t get the chance to participate in activities or programs and teachers have to manage too many students. The City had a missed opportunity to negotiate space at Landmark for construction of a school. And there are ways to ensure fairness in school assignments. It’s not like other places haven’t figured out how to do it!

ACPS truly lacks creativity to think outside the box and is set in old ways of thinking and doing. I mean, their excuse for failing to implement a robust outdoor lunch plan for COVID mitigation was that the schools are overcrowded (exactly why kids shouldn’t eat indoors!) and outdoor air quality may be poor (meanwhile, one of the middle schools has documented mold for years). This all became even more pronounced during the pandemic and more families have fled for privates, unlikely to return.

I also think ACPS is misguided in its use of the concept of “equity.” Rather than applying the principle to lift students up, it becomes a crutch and excuse for saying no and why they can’t do things that seem obvious (eg. “Nobody should get outdoor lunch because some schools don’t have as much open space. Thus, all students will be stuck inside to make it ‘equitable’.”)

It really is a tragedy for the entire Alexandria City community.

+1 Was in the system for years and agree with all of this. We finally left; it's just too big with too many unmet needs and missed opportunities. So many friends still doing this and makign excuses for it; I just keep my mouth shut because whats the point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

ACPS was too small for this, and now they're stuck. If they open a second high school they'll unleash a mad scramble to get "good" kids in the "good" school and avoid getting put in the "bad" school. If they manage to fight off those forces and open a second high school with identical demographics then they won't actually do a better job of retaining all those kids who are currently going private. So they just keep plugging along.

They really need a second high school. ACHS is too big for students to access things. My son did not make the JV soccer or tennis teams (he plays travel and competitive tennis), had difficulty getting involved in the robotics club. It is just not accessible, too many students. I don't care how they divide it, they need to do so.

Agreed. ACHS student enrollment is size of a small college without the resources to support it. Not only is the school physically busting at the seams, but both students and teachers have missed opportunities. Kids don’t get the chance to participate in activities or programs and teachers have to manage too many students. The City had a missed opportunity to negotiate space at Landmark for construction of a school. And there are ways to ensure fairness in school assignments. It’s not like other places haven’t figured out how to do it!

ACPS truly lacks creativity to think outside the box and is set in old ways of thinking and doing. I mean, their excuse for failing to implement a robust outdoor lunch plan for COVID mitigation was that the schools are overcrowded (exactly why kids shouldn’t eat indoors!) and outdoor air quality may be poor (meanwhile, one of the middle schools has documented mold for years). This all became even more pronounced during the pandemic and more families have fled for privates, unlikely to return.

I also think ACPS is misguided in its use of the concept of “equity.” Rather than applying the principle to lift students up, it becomes a crutch and excuse for saying no and why they can’t do things that seem obvious (eg. “Nobody should get outdoor lunch because some schools don’t have as much open space. Thus, all students will be stuck inside to make it ‘equitable’.”)

It really is a tragedy for the entire Alexandria City community.

+1 Was in the system for years and agree with all of this. We finally left; it's just too big with too many unmet needs and missed opportunities. So many friends still doing this and makign excuses for it; I just keep my mouth shut because whats the point.

Sad to hear that PP but totally understandable. Where did you go and can you see a measurable difference there?

Our neighbors also make excuses for it but I think they are just as confused as I am. I hear repeatedly that it's possible for a neurotypical kid of average intelligence to do well in ACPS. But meanwhile they're experiencing all of the above and that's not problematic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Largest high school in state of Virginia because ACPS can’t figure out how to build a new school. Superintendent and Board Chair send their kids to private schools rather than their own district.

I know there isn’t a lot of land in Alexandria to build schools, but there a lot if smart, connected rich people there. You’d think they could come up with a solution. We moved when our kids turned 5.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Adverse selection. Alexandria has a robust enough private school infrastructure that well-to-do parents can opt out. The result is greater concentration of problem children and underperformers as you get to higher grades. A lot of it dates back to the desegregation era, but the same effect can be found in jurisdictions that were never formally segregated to begin with. Other school districts avoided this by adding choice schools and being larger in general, which gave them flexibility to shuffle around pyramids just enough to prevent a mass exodus to private schools while still nominally desegregating. Over time many of those jurisdictions were able to gradually improve their racial and socioeconomic mix (though some took this more seriously than others).

ACPS was too small for this, and now they're stuck. If they open a second high school they'll unleash a mad scramble to get "good" kids in the "good" school and avoid getting put in the "bad" school. If they manage to fight off those forces and open a second high school with identical demographics then they won't actually do a better job of retaining all those kids who are currently going private. So they just keep plugging along.

OP here. Super helpful. Thanks.

It is so frustrating. We love Alexandria but don't want 50k/yr in private tuition. And we don't believe in the schools' capacity for change. So, it looks like moving. And it's really a shame.

It really is a shame. I'm able to stay home and homeschool so we'll keep doing that as long as it works. If public school becomes necessary or it becomes a better idea financially, we'll move.

[Anonymous]

Despite everything, best volleyball in the state.

[Anonymous]

Public housing.