Shortage of refs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah - I have been surprised at the frequency and tone of comments directed at the referees over the course of several years watching my kids play competitive soccer. Most of the time, the comments are all about fouls — usually alleged fouls that are not called, and sometimes fouls that are called. It seems to me that the inherent vagueness of how much upper body contact is permissible — exactly how much of a contact sport soccer is — exacerbates the problem.

It’s often difficult for the refs to get it right in real time, I’m sure. Heck - even in the past when I was drafted as a sideline assistant, it was sometimes hard to tell who kicked the ball out and whose throw in it was.

I don’t know what the answer is, but paying the refs more is probably a good idea, both to attract more adults to the job and to increase the quality.

This is all true. Refs will make mistakes and that's fine. It's the ones that can't keep up with the game that anger me. I have no problem if you couldn't see because your line of sight got blocked at the last minute, or you were on the spot and you just didn't see the same as I saw. I do have a problem if you are three yards from the center circle when the ball is in the box.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah - I have been surprised at the frequency and tone of comments directed at the referees over the course of several years watching my kids play competitive soccer. Most of the time, the comments are all about fouls — usually alleged fouls that are not called, and sometimes fouls that are called. It seems to me that the inherent vagueness of how much upper body contact is permissible — exactly how much of a contact sport soccer is — exacerbates the problem.

It’s often difficult for the refs to get it right in real time, I’m sure. Heck - even in the past when I was drafted as a sideline assistant, it was sometimes hard to tell who kicked the ball out and whose throw in it was.

I don’t know what the answer is, but paying the refs more is probably a good idea, both to attract more adults to the job and to increase the quality.

better pay woud help get more refs involved but, I'm a ref and assignors or whoever need to hold the referees more accountable as well. There are some sorry refs out there. They won't learn the new laws (handball has been changing every year for the past few years, they don't know the drop ball rules, etc) and they just don't follow the play sufficiently to at least be in position to try to make the correct call.

Reffing at fields during the height of covid when parents needed to stay away or at least outside of the fence, etc was absolute heaven but, like I said, Refs need to do better too. Each year, refs need to recertify and take a test on line but you can look up the answers as you go. It's like an open book test. You don't have the internet on the field. You need to know on the spot and immediately. Referees should reread either Law 11 (Offside) and Law 12 (Fouls and Misconduct) each week plus one or two other Law. And it really would hurt if parents gave these Laws a read once in awhile so they know what they are talking about.

[Anonymous]

The number one problem is still abuse. How do you fix it?

1. no spectator rule - really hard to implement, but what if all fields had video streaming? Might be possible then.
2. automatic club fines for yellow cards due to ref abuse - could be a bit dangerous with some poorly trained or incompetent refs
3. club sideline monitors - a thankless job, would have to be the equivalent of a bouncer or would need to have the ability to fine families

#2 might work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah - I have been surprised at the frequency and tone of comments directed at the referees over the course of several years watching my kids play competitive soccer. Most of the time, the comments are all about fouls — usually alleged fouls that are not called, and sometimes fouls that are called. It seems to me that the inherent vagueness of how much upper body contact is permissible — exactly how much of a contact sport soccer is — exacerbates the problem.

It’s often difficult for the refs to get it right in real time, I’m sure. Heck - even in the past when I was drafted as a sideline assistant, it was sometimes hard to tell who kicked the ball out and whose throw in it was.

I don’t know what the answer is, but paying the refs more is probably a good idea, both to attract more adults to the job and to increase the quality.

This is all true. Refs will make mistakes and that's fine. It's the ones that can't keep up with the game that anger me. I have no problem if you couldn't see because your line of sight got blocked at the last minute, or you were on the spot and you just didn't see the same as I saw. I do have a problem if you are three yards from the center circle when the ball is in the box.

Why don’t you step up and become a ref?

[Anonymous]

My son referees (rec games), and he has found it to be a more plesant experience than expected. He's confident in his calls (has played travel soccer since U9), and just ignores parents that make comments. However, the pay is not such that it would be an attractive option for an adult. For a teen, though, it is a good way to pick up extra money.

[Anonymous]

Most of the time, the comments are all about fouls — usually alleged fouls that are not called, and sometimes fouls that are called. It seems to me that the inherent vagueness of how much upper body contact is permissible — exactly how much of a contact sport soccer is — exacerbates the problem.

Agreed that this is an issue. Though I was fairly distressed at my son's last game that a few opponents kept pulling on his shirt or pushing him down with hands from behind, and no foul was called. I'm a photographer, and photograph the games to share with our team, and it is really apparent from the pictures. I still would not be abusive towards a ref about it, however.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son referees (rec games), and he has found it to be a more plesant experience than expected. He's confident in his calls (has played travel soccer since U9), and just ignores parents that make comments. However, the pay is not such that it would be an attractive option for an adult. For a teen, though, it is a good way to pick up extra money.

While pay isn’t a complete non-issue, my impression from talking to adults I know who are refs is that it tends to be people who love the game and see reffing as a way to stay close to it once they and/or their kids aren’t playing anymore. So when people decide to stop reffing, it seems like that probably has more to do with something that has taken away the joy of it for them than just about the pay. Whether that’s abusive parents, or scheduling that means they spend a lot of time traveling for only a single game, or whatever else might factor in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah - I have been surprised at the frequency and tone of comments directed at the referees over the course of several years watching my kids play competitive soccer. Most of the time, the comments are all about fouls — usually alleged fouls that are not called, and sometimes fouls that are called. It seems to me that the inherent vagueness of how much upper body contact is permissible — exactly how much of a contact sport soccer is — exacerbates the problem.

It’s often difficult for the refs to get it right in real time, I’m sure. Heck - even in the past when I was drafted as a sideline assistant, it was sometimes hard to tell who kicked the ball out and whose throw in it was.

I don’t know what the answer is, but paying the refs more is probably a good idea, both to attract more adults to the job and to increase the quality.

This is all true. Refs will make mistakes and that's fine. It's the ones that can't keep up with the game that anger me. I have no problem if you couldn't see because your line of sight got blocked at the last minute, or you were on the spot and you just didn't see the same as I saw. I do have a problem if you are three yards from the center circle when the ball is in the box.

Yes, that’s frustrating…but keep in mind that it may be that ref’s fourth game of the day, and if he wasn’t there standing in the center, there would be no ref at all.

[Anonymous]

Refs have handed out yellow cards to coaches at nearly 1/2 the games I've watched my DD play in. Our HC and opposing HC. They've done it half way through first half and it shuts down coaches yelling at them very, very quick. Parents take note and yell a ton less as well. I'm for it... there's a massive difference between disagreement in a call than saying "are you blind" or "do your job, REF!". Use the cards you've been given.

[Anonymous]

I agree it is a tough job. However, it is also an important one. When refs do not set the tone early in a game that they will call out inappropriate behavior, it sends a signal to the other team that they can get away with it, and kids can get hurt as a result.

I have noticed that the quality of refs my kids had for Super Y was much higher than during the regular season. I don't know why that would be, but it was definitely the case for both kids (one plays in NCSL, one in CCL). Maybe it is just random, or maybe the pool of refs is different in the summer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree it is a tough job. However, it is also an important one. When refs do not set the tone early in a game that they will call out inappropriate behavior, it sends a signal to the other team that they can get away with it, and kids can get hurt as a result.

I have noticed that the quality of refs my kids had for Super Y was much higher than during the regular season. I don't know why that would be, but it was definitely the case for both kids (one plays in NCSL, one in CCL). Maybe it is just random, or maybe the pool of refs is different in the summer?

Speculating here - but fewer games may have something to do with this...? Or just dumb luck

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah - I have been surprised at the frequency and tone of comments directed at the referees over the course of several years watching my kids play competitive soccer. Most of the time, the comments are all about fouls — usually alleged fouls that are not called, and sometimes fouls that are called. It seems to me that the inherent vagueness of how much upper body contact is permissible — exactly how much of a contact sport soccer is — exacerbates the problem.

It’s often difficult for the refs to get it right in real time, I’m sure. Heck - even in the past when I was drafted as a sideline assistant, it was sometimes hard to tell who kicked the ball out and whose throw in it was.

I don’t know what the answer is, but paying the refs more is probably a good idea, both to attract more adults to the job and to increase the quality.

better pay woud help get more refs involved but, I'm a ref and assignors or whoever need to hold the referees more accountable as well. There are some sorry refs out there. They won't learn the new laws (handball has been changing every year for the past few years, they don't know the drop ball rules, etc) and they just don't follow the play sufficiently to at least be in position to try to make the correct call.

Reffing at fields during the height of covid when parents needed to stay away or at least outside of the fence, etc was absolute heaven but, like I said, Refs need to do better too. Each year, refs need to recertify and take a test on line but you can look up the answers as you go. It's like an open book test. You don't have the internet on the field. You need to know on the spot and immediately. Referees should reread either Law 11 (Offside) and Law 12 (Fouls and Misconduct) each week plus one or two other Law. And it really would hurt if parents gave these Laws a read once in awhile so they know what they are talking about.

Agreed. I am a parent coach, TM, and have reffed in the past. My DD plays NCSL Division 1, and I have been shocked at how wide the disparity in reffing quality is. Some refs are amazing, both from a technical perspective, and attitudinally. I make sure to compliment and thank them every time.

On the flip side, I have seen:
- Refs not knowing basic rules for the age groups they are reffing. Heading rules, build out lines, etc. I watched a ref award a PK based on a girl heading the ball in U12 (which is totally legal, and even if not, the consequence would not have been a PK).

- Some absolute travesties of offside calls. I'm not talking about anything close, I'm talking about literally 1/4 of the field offside and not called.

- Refs not checking the field equipment (huge holes in nets in tournaments that are affecting game results).

- Inappropriately aggressive verbal treatment (angry yelling) of 10 year old girls who did nothing malicious.

- Too many PKs called based on handballs that do not meet the current definition. These are handballs that would not be called in a professional men's match.

We definitely need more talent. Why am I not out there myself?

- I'm coaching one team and managing another.

- I'm well compensated professionally so the $$$ is not a motivator.

- I'm at a stage in life where time is at a premium, and I can't justify to my spouse taking hours off on a Sunday to do something that doesn't involve my kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah - I have been surprised at the frequency and tone of comments directed at the referees over the course of several years watching my kids play competitive soccer. Most of the time, the comments are all about fouls — usually alleged fouls that are not called, and sometimes fouls that are called. It seems to me that the inherent vagueness of how much upper body contact is permissible — exactly how much of a contact sport soccer is — exacerbates the problem.

It’s often difficult for the refs to get it right in real time, I’m sure. Heck - even in the past when I was drafted as a sideline assistant, it was sometimes hard to tell who kicked the ball out and whose throw in it was.

I don’t know what the answer is, but paying the refs more is probably a good idea, both to attract more adults to the job and to increase the quality.

better pay woud help get more refs involved but, I'm a ref and assignors or whoever need to hold the referees more accountable as well. There are some sorry refs out there. They won't learn the new laws (handball has been changing every year for the past few years, they don't know the drop ball rules, etc) and they just don't follow the play sufficiently to at least be in position to try to make the correct call.

Reffing at fields during the height of covid when parents needed to stay away or at least outside of the fence, etc was absolute heaven but, like I said, Refs need to do better too. Each year, refs need to recertify and take a test on line but you can look up the answers as you go. It's like an open book test. You don't have the internet on the field. You need to know on the spot and immediately. Referees should reread either Law 11 (Offside) and Law 12 (Fouls and Misconduct) each week plus one or two other Law. And it really would hurt if parents gave these Laws a read once in awhile so they know what they are talking about.

Agreed. I am a parent coach, TM, and have reffed in the past. My DD plays NCSL Division 1, and I have been shocked at how wide the disparity in reffing quality is. Some refs are amazing, both from a technical perspective, and attitudinally. I make sure to compliment and thank them every time.

On the flip side, I have seen:
- Refs not knowing basic rules for the age groups they are reffing. Heading rules, build out lines, etc. I watched a ref award a PK based on a girl heading the ball in U12 (which is totally legal, and even if not, the consequence would not have been a PK).

- Some absolute travesties of offside calls. I'm not talking about anything close, I'm talking about literally 1/4 of the field offside and not called.

- Refs not checking the field equipment (huge holes in nets in tournaments that are affecting game results).

- Inappropriately aggressive verbal treatment (angry yelling) of 10 year old girls who did nothing malicious.

- Too many PKs called based on handballs that do not meet the current definition. These are handballs that would not be called in a professional men's match.

We definitely need more talent. Why am I not out there myself?

- I'm coaching one team and managing another.

- I'm well compensated professionally so the $$$ is not a motivator.

- I'm at a stage in life where time is at a premium, and I can't justify to my spouse taking hours off on a Sunday to do something that doesn't involve my kids.

Also, my biggest pet peeve at parents yelling at the ref is when they go ape&@^ over the ref getting a throw-in wrong. I see this so often (parents losing their mind that the other team incorrectly gets possession) and it almost never impacts the game. Yelling about this constantly creates noise and tunes out potentially valid protests over goals that never should have happened due to offside, penalty kicks, or refs incorrectly ruling a ball across the goal line (or not).

[Anonymous]

The problem is with the fouls that are not called. Girl hits girl with ball from behind center of back on the spine. Girls goes down refer ignores it. Ref not call fouls because the girl committing foul is small. She is ranking the other girl’s calf with her studs. Players like these need to be carded and kicked out of the game. They are a safety issue.

I could care less about offside, throw in or handball rule. Just be consistent with your calls.

[Anonymous]

For all of you criticizing the refs: pick up a whistle and try it yourself. It’s not as easy as you think.

Also recognize the best refs out there are not working your DS or DD’s game.

Criticizing those refs is like going all Karen at a McDonald’s employee for getting your order wrong.

Lower your standards and expectations