Foundation

[Anonymous]

I started listening to the first book on tape on a car trip and was reminded that while I really love sci-fi I have always found it hard to warm to Asimov because he loves to plod, plod, plod.

But I am definitely going to check this out. I was glad to see they included a woman, something the book was sorely missing.

[Anonymous]

I really liked the first episode. I was worried it was going to be needlessly complicated (I'm looking at you, Westworld), but it manages to be complex and approachable. We'll keep watching, for sure.

I think it's too sci-fi to be a huge hit, which Apple TV already has with Ted Lasso. I just appreciate all the great content Apple TV has!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not read the books but did watch the first two episodes. It is not hard to follow but the second episode was kinda slow. Also, what about the SPOILER ALERT death at the end of second episode? I thought he’s supposed to be part of the show? He’s already dead?

First of all, I don't think he's really dead. But, however they pull it off, I think the Foundation needs Seldon to be a mythic figure (a martyr is even better) and, in any event, the plot needs him not to be on Terminus when they set up the Foundation. I think they're going to lean into the first bit -- that was probably the significance of him bemoaning the fact that he was "Hari" and no longer "Professor Seldon" to the people on the ship. In the books, the Foundation on Terminus didn't have any psychohistorians which ends up being a pretty significant plot point.

Wait - you apparently have read the books, and also "don't think he's really dead?" Really? Please explain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have not read the books but did watch the first two episodes. It is not hard to follow but the second episode was kinda slow. Also, what about the SPOILER ALERT death at the end of second episode? I thought he’s supposed to be part of the show? He’s already dead?

First of all, I don't think he's really dead. But, however they pull it off, I think the Foundation needs Seldon to be a mythic figure (a martyr is even better) and, in any event, the plot needs him not to be on Terminus when they set up the Foundation. I think they're going to lean into the first bit -- that was probably the significance of him bemoaning the fact that he was "Hari" and no longer "Professor Seldon" to the people on the ship. In the books, the Foundation on Terminus didn't have any psychohistorians which ends up being a pretty significant plot point.

Wait - you apparently have read the books, and also "don't think he's really dead?" Really? Please explain.

Part of that is just past movies and TV shows. If someone dies that rapidly and that close to the end of an episode and we don't see pretty definitive evidence of their body being cold, then they're probably alive. There was also the gizmo Raych took off his ear which (I think -- my memory is fuzzy) looked like the gizmo we saw at the beginning of the episode where Demerzel is interrogating someone and it helped them breathe. That said, I wouldn't be surprised to be wrong. While Seldon doesn't die like this in the original books, he dies of natural causes on Trantor off-screen. I can't recall if there is anything he has to do with respect to Second Foundation before he dies.

[Anonymous]

Caught episode 3 this weekend. I think they do a good job with the stuff that's not in the books -- specifically the scenes back at the Empire -- and are doing a poor job of introducing us to the Foundation on Terminus which is in the books.

I'm not trying to insist that the writers go beat-for-beat with what Asimov wrote. That would be unrealistic and probably make a boring TV show. But it feels like they're abandoning some significant plot elements from the books just to force the show into some common TV tropes. Maybe there will be payoff for these particular deviations sometime later.

My biggest beef is that they seem to be making the TV version of Salvor Hardin into a special, Chosen One. In the books, he was kind of a regular dude -- a little more clever, decisive, and active than normal. In the TV show, they turned Seldon's Vault from a little movie theater into a strange floating object that was on the planet when the settlers arrived, with a force field that prevents anyone from approaching. Hardin is mysteriously the only one who can approach.

Also, instead of a planet with a reasonable climate but limited metal resources, they turned Terminus into a hostile Hoth like winter planet with predators that remind me of velociraptors.

I'll keep watching though. Like I said, they're doing some good stuff back at the Empire. And I'm hopeful some of these deviations will have payoffs that are faithful to Asimov's larger vision of the series.

[Anonymous]

So, we're now through episode 5. The good news is that the series is basically just ignoring the books to a sufficient extent that we're out of the Uncanny Valley. It's just so different, that there's no longer any point registering how the books handled things. A few of the names are the same. There is some gesturing toward Asimov's original "psychohistory" conceit, but other than that, there's no real relationship between the two.

Now the main problem is that the show is ponderous and disjointed and the characters make bad decisions to further the plot. In this past episode, they did a 20 minute flashback on a character we hadn't seen in two episodes to re-tell us what they'd already told us in episode 1. I guess this is supposed to be character development, but it's hard to care.

Meanwhile, our plucky band of scientists on the Galactic periphery bring an invader into a command post where a bomb hidden on the invader's person can take out the shields. The populace, seeing that a bunch of invaders are encircling the shield with weapons drawn, decides to kind of just stand out in the open. Thankfully, the invaders have aim that would make Storm Troopers and A-Team villains look like sharpshooters.

Oh, and when the Imperial ship comes to save the day, our savvy main character talks to its commander for a bit but neglects to tell him that the invaders have a really big gun aimed at him that he probably can't see from orbit. That would have been useful information to convey.

And ... yet, I'm still watching. The visuals are pretty well done. And there are some interesting bits, particularly back in the center of the Empire.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, we're now through episode 5. The good news is that the series is basically just ignoring the books to a sufficient extent that we're out of the Uncanny Valley. It's just so different, that there's no longer any point registering how the books handled things. A few of the names are the same. There is some gesturing toward Asimov's original "psychohistory" conceit, but other than that, there's no real relationship between the two.

Now the main problem is that the show is ponderous and disjointed and the characters make bad decisions to further the plot. In this past episode, they did a 20 minute flashback on a character we hadn't seen in two episodes to re-tell us what they'd already told us in episode 1. I guess this is supposed to be character development, but it's hard to care.

Meanwhile, our plucky band of scientists on the Galactic periphery bring an invader into a command post where a bomb hidden on the invader's person can take out the shields. The populace, seeing that a bunch of invaders are encircling the shield with weapons drawn, decides to kind of just stand out in the open. Thankfully, the invaders have aim that would make Storm Troopers and A-Team villains look like sharpshooters.

Oh, and when the Imperial ship comes to save the day, our savvy main character talks to its commander for a bit but neglects to tell him that the invaders have a really big gun aimed at him that he probably can't see from orbit. That would have been useful information to convey.

And ... yet, I'm still watching. The visuals are pretty well done. And there are some interesting bits, particularly back in the center of the Empire.

We’re an episode behind you (I think? The plot sort of runs together) and enjoying it thus far. I haven’t read the books, which probably helps me not get irritated at the deviations from them. The visuals are great, the characters are fun and mostly well-acted (Lee Pace…. And bonus for Terrence Mann, who I’m thrilled to see as a former Les Mis nerd growing up). I like the implication of environmentally-driven differences in the assorted Cleons, since they’re genetic copies of each other.

Mostly, it’s fun entertainment. I also really like See, for similar reasons.

[Anonymous]

I'm on Episode 6. The action is finally picking up.

I appreciate the long post/analysis from the PP. While I think Ep 5's flashback nature was a little strange, I think now we are going to get more of the original intent of Terminus and The Foundation. In a way, I prefer this. You get a bunch of characters, visuals, locations, etc., and now you're going to get what ties it all together.

I didn't get too far in the books, but I was waiting and waiting for something like the point to emerge. This series is picking up the pace and it's a good thing.

[Anonymous]

I'm watching the last episode of the season. This has gotten really good after a slow start.

I am ok with many of the far-fetched probabilities in the storylines. I think the story is really intriguing and the action is good.

Brother Day's trip to the planet for the religious ceremony was so good. And the storyline with Brother Dawn too. And Hot Hugo lives. A true joy.

I don't love the Salvor Hardin character, but I will get over it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm watching the last episode of the season. This has gotten really good after a slow start.

I am ok with many of the far-fetched probabilities in the storylines. I think the story is really intriguing and the action is good.

Brother Day's trip to the planet for the religious ceremony was so good. And the storyline with Brother Dawn too. And Hot Hugo lives. A true joy.

I don't love the Salvor Hardin character, but I will get over it.

Agree, if you can get pass the first 4-5 episodes. The last 5 episodes are really entertaining.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm watching the last episode of the season. This has gotten really good after a slow start.

I am ok with many of the far-fetched probabilities in the storylines. I think the story is really intriguing and the action is good.

Brother Day's trip to the planet for the religious ceremony was so good. And the storyline with Brother Dawn too. And Hot Hugo lives. A true joy.

I don't love the Salvor Hardin character, but I will get over it.

Agree, if you can get pass the first 4-5 episodes. The last 5 episodes are really entertaining.

I really hope we get a Season 2 - the last two episodes were awesome and action packed. Brother Day is a cold mofo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm watching the last episode of the season. This has gotten really good after a slow start.

I am ok with many of the far-fetched probabilities in the storylines. I think the story is really intriguing and the action is good.

Brother Day's trip to the planet for the religious ceremony was so good. And the storyline with Brother Dawn too. And Hot Hugo lives. A true joy.

I don't love the Salvor Hardin character, but I will get over it.

Agree, if you can get pass the first 4-5 episodes. The last 5 episodes are really entertaining.

I really hope we get a Season 2 - the last two episodes were awesome and action packed. Brother Day is a cold mofo.

I think it was renewed before it even premiered. Late 2022 is prediction.

[Anonymous]

Anyone watching the new season?

I need a re-watch of Season 1 I think.

This is good, but I feel like we are in deep sci fi nerd territory and I predict a "Raised by Wolves" fate, sadly.

Also, are the Brother Day and Hardin, Gaal, and Hari Seldon in the same timeline? If so, then I really want Dawn, Day, Dusk, and Demerzel to talk about what happened with the altered Brother Day from Season 1. I believe reference was made to it in the last episode.

I believe I was the poster that said I didn't love Salvor's character. Salvor has grown on me. It's Gaal that I have issues with at this point.

Also, that bit with the Vault at the end of this last episode - the writing on it - was cheesy as hel!

[Anonymous]

Season 3 started a few weeks ago. I really enjoy this series, although it has some flaws. I rewatched S1 and S2 before starting on S3.

The jumps forward in time are an issue. There were several great characters to get attached to in S2 and now they are just ... gone. I like Gaal well enough, but I don't think she's been written well enough to convince me she's a brilliant mathmetician/psychohistorian with such special qualities and gifts that she is going to lead Foundation in a major conflict.

I will reserve judgment on the evil Mule storyline, but it's already way too brutal for me. I will choose to believe the Mule introduction was a deliberate nod to Game of Thrones because if it wasn't then it was terrible.

Bright spots: a fairly unclothed Lee Pace as Brother Day, who has lost faith in the entire genetic dynasty and is reacting accordingly. Conscientious but wildly ambitious Brother Dawn trying to keep it together. Brother Dusk trying to gain a reprieve from his impending end.

And Cherry Jones! Always a gem in anything she's in.