Succession - Season 4

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Doesn't anyone else think it's very unusual for a NYSE-listed mega conglomerate not to have a fully-formed CEO succession plan in place? Given Logan's age and medical issues throughout the series, wouldn't the board and stockholders, particularly stockholder activists, have insisted on it?

I think one of the over-arching messages of this show is that hubris leads to destruction. If Logan and his acolytes had been responsible stewards of the corporation, they would have put ego aside and accepted that Logan wouldn't be around forever and would have undertaken the uncomfortable task of planning next steps in the event of his demise. But by appeasing his ego, the corporation now is left in uncertainty and is at the whim of some really self-serving and diabolical players. Seems like a cautionary tale for not hoarding short term personal benefit at the expense of the greater good.

As I recall, the official plan was for Gerri to be CEO, but that was always assumed to be subject to a Logan making up his mind about which of his children might be able to fill the role. There would be no show if there was a well established plan, but I do think you’re partially right about the cost of hubris being the point of the show, along with the idea that Logan was successful *because* he was a brilliant malignant narcissist, and none of his children can fill his shoes (even though they all share his narcissism to varying degrees).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Kendall's showing a lot of the ruthlessness that's been shown to be needed, supposedly -- I think he's going to win CEO. I think it has to be at great personal cost -- Roman commits suicide or is severely hurt? His relationship with Shiv gets utterly broken?

The only way I see Shiv winning is by using the waiter death against Kendall somehow. But by getting Collin on his team maybe Kendall has averted that possibility.

I think it would be a great play if actually Shiv and Kendall were working together to eff over Lukas. But Kendall really didn't know about Shiv's doublecross until election night, so that's not really a thing. But it would have explained Shiv wanting Lukas to publish his fraudulent numbers that might have worked to Kendall's advantage in pillaging the village.

I'm worried for Roman -- his comments were so out of control leading up to the funeral, showing a lot of instability, and then his breakdown and almost a reversion to a childhood state followed by near self-harm -- it's getting dark. And Kendall doesn't seem to care and is even making things worse for him mentally, which makes me think Roman is going to get hurt and in part it will be Kendall's fault.

Collin will not be on Kendall's team. Ever.

There is no Collin. It’s Connor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting that we see Kendall trying to get custody of his kids, taking control of things, hurting Roman, scooping up Collin... making us feel like he's becoming Logan.

But like PP alluded to, are they going to surprise us? I'm excited to see the Finale.

It’s Connor.

[Anonymous]

People, Connor = big brother who ran for President. Collin = Logan’s security guy. There are two people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting that we see Kendall trying to get custody of his kids, taking control of things, hurting Roman, scooping up Collin... making us feel like he's becoming Logan.

But like PP alluded to, are they going to surprise us? I'm excited to see the Finale.

It’s Connor.

Do you even watch the show? Colin was Logan’s body guy. Kendall pitched him to come work for him now that Logan is dead, hence the PPs reference to scooping up Collin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s likelier to have spontaneous elements because of the actor’s particular method, right?

I'm the PP who bought this up and: No I guarantee that speech was written word for word by Jesse Armstrong. But also Jeremy Strong's delivery was phenomenal -- he's an amazing actor.

I disagree Kendall has been eloquent like this before. At the beginning of his Living+ speech, he came out and repeated the phrase "big shoes" like six times, struggled with the teleprompter, then went off script to muse about how cool it would be if they could make people live forever and was like "I mean we can't but wouldn't it be cool?" It was terrible but people are idiots so it got positive reviews on Twitter (within the universe of the show).

But the eulogy was a really wonderful piece of writing that almost feels out of character for Kendall and I'm wondering if we are meant to believe he actually just spoke from the heart, or if he had imagined the speech ahead of time and in particular worked out some of those very lovely turns of phrase, or if the whole thing is more just Armstrong speaking through the character to make a point about the show and Logan and what it means, in the penultimate episode.

There's no right or wrong answer, we can't know, it just struck me because several lines from that eulogy have stuck with me all week.

Re: the Living+ speech, you're forgetting how well his speech went after the cringey first moments you described. It was very well delivered - and well received, as we see from the audience's reaction and the backslapping he gets backstage. In addition, he adroitly and diplomatically addressed the audience member's awkward question about Mattson's inappropriate tweet.
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Doesn't anyone else think it's very unusual for a NYSE-listed mega conglomerate not to have a fully-formed CEO succession plan in place? Given Logan's age and medical issues throughout the series, wouldn't the board and stockholders, particularly stockholder activists, have insisted on it?

I think one of the over-arching messages of this show is that hubris leads to destruction. If Logan and his acolytes had been responsible stewards of the corporation, they would have put ego aside and accepted that Logan wouldn't be around forever and would have undertaken the uncomfortable task of planning next steps in the event of his demise. But by appeasing his ego, the corporation now is left in uncertainty and is at the whim of some really self-serving and diabolical players. Seems like a cautionary tale for not hoarding short term personal benefit at the expense of the greater good.

A TV show about a fully formed and executed succession plan would be quite boring to watch.

So true.
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Kendall's showing a lot of the ruthlessness that's been shown to be needed, supposedly -- I think he's going to win CEO. I think it has to be at great personal cost -- Roman commits suicide or is severely hurt? His relationship with Shiv gets utterly broken?

The only way I see Shiv winning is by using the waiter death against Kendall somehow. But by getting Collin on his team maybe Kendall has averted that possibility.

I think it would be a great play if actually Shiv and Kendall were working together to eff over Lukas. But Kendall really didn't know about Shiv's doublecross until election night, so that's not really a thing. But it would have explained Shiv wanting Lukas to publish his fraudulent numbers that might have worked to Kendall's advantage in pillaging the village.

I'm worried for Roman -- his comments were so out of control leading up to the funeral, showing a lot of instability, and then his breakdown and almost a reversion to a childhood state followed by near self-harm -- it's getting dark. And Kendall doesn't seem to care and is even making things worse for him mentally, which makes me think Roman is going to get hurt and in part it will be Kendall's fault.

Collin will not be on Kendall's team. Ever.

There is no Collin. It’s Connor.

No, we're talking about Collin, Logan's personal driver and "friend."

[Anonymous]

The actor who plays Tom was asked how people were going to feel about the ending -- satisfied or surprised, and he said both but that of course Armstrong wasn't going to do what people expected. So I have a bad feeling Greg winds up on top.

[Anonymous]

Lukas Mattson (or somebody just like him) will end up in charge of all of it. That is where my money is.

It makes sense. This show is about a dying breed. You have some 60+ old white guys still in charge. But they aren't getting replaced by other old white guys and family members. They are getting replaced my young tech people with tons of new money. This show has been true to current times and they'll end on that note.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s likelier to have spontaneous elements because of the actor’s particular method, right?

I'm the PP who bought this up and: No I guarantee that speech was written word for word by Jesse Armstrong. But also Jeremy Strong's delivery was phenomenal -- he's an amazing actor.

I disagree Kendall has been eloquent like this before. At the beginning of his Living+ speech, he came out and repeated the phrase "big shoes" like six times, struggled with the teleprompter, then went off script to muse about how cool it would be if they could make people live forever and was like "I mean we can't but wouldn't it be cool?" It was terrible but people are idiots so it got positive reviews on Twitter (within the universe of the show).

But the eulogy was a really wonderful piece of writing that almost feels out of character for Kendall and I'm wondering if we are meant to believe he actually just spoke from the heart, or if he had imagined the speech ahead of time and in particular worked out some of those very lovely turns of phrase, or if the whole thing is more just Armstrong speaking through the character to make a point about the show and Logan and what it means, in the penultimate episode.

There's no right or wrong answer, we can't know, it just struck me because several lines from that eulogy have stuck with me all week.

Re: the Living+ speech, you're forgetting how well his speech went after the cringey first moments you described. It was very well delivered - and well received, as we see from the audience's reaction and the backslapping he gets backstage. In addition, he adroitly and diplomatically addressed the audience member's awkward question about Mattson's inappropriate tweet.
DP

Agree to disagree. I found the Living+ speech cringey and embarrassing, even if it winds up getting a good reception, whereas the eulogy was both beautifully written and smart in terms of positioning Kendall as a clear successor to his dad’s eulogy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Doesn't anyone else think it's very unusual for a NYSE-listed mega conglomerate not to have a fully-formed CEO succession plan in place? Given Logan's age and medical issues throughout the series, wouldn't the board and stockholders, particularly stockholder activists, have insisted on it?

I think one of the over-arching messages of this show is that hubris leads to destruction. If Logan and his acolytes had been responsible stewards of the corporation, they would have put ego aside and accepted that Logan wouldn't be around forever and would have undertaken the uncomfortable task of planning next steps in the event of his demise. But by appeasing his ego, the corporation now is left in uncertainty and is at the whim of some really self-serving and diabolical players. Seems like a cautionary tale for not hoarding short term personal benefit at the expense of the greater good.

It’s not unheard of. The show us at least partially based on Rupert Murdoch and his kids, who have definitely engaged in similar jockeying for control of Murdoch’s business (which is very similar to Waystar, of course).

I also know the family that owns the Denver Broncos has similar drama, including with kids from multiple marriages competing to take over and one kid with substance abuse issues who I think got a DUI that impacted his chances of taking over? Can’t remember the details but it was similarly soap opera-y.

Waystar is unique because while it’s publicly traded, it’s still a family company with the family owning controlling shares. So not as closely held as, say, Trump’s businesses (which are not public) but different from company’s where the founder died generations ago and ownership now lies with people unrelated to them, where decisions about executive management don’t involve family drama.

[Anonymous]

This show is boring and reductive. There was so much hype I started watching it. I've only watched two seasons but it seems like the plot every episode is the same. BORING.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This show is boring and reductive. There was so much hype I started watching it. I've only watched two seasons but it seems like the plot every episode is the same. BORING.

You’re correct. It IS boring. Very little happens. If you were to remove the wealth from the plot, it would be unwatchable. This show appeals to vapid people who are easily impressed by money and visual effects. The plot isn’t interesting and the characters lack any depth. There are some funny remarks by the characters at times, but that is it.

I wish I’d stopped when I did. Season one when an entire episode is about a helicopter ride is silly. Oh wow a helicopter!!! These people are so loaded….check out that helicopter!! Look at this rich family play baseball! How entertaining! BORING.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This show is boring and reductive. There was so much hype I started watching it. I've only watched two seasons but it seems like the plot every episode is the same. BORING.

You’re correct. It IS boring. Very little happens. If you were to remove the wealth from the plot, it would be unwatchable. This show appeals to vapid people who are easily impressed by money and visual effects. The plot isn’t interesting and the characters lack any depth. There are some funny remarks by the characters at times, but that is it.

I wish I’d stopped when I did. Season one when an entire episode is about a helicopter ride is silly. Oh wow a helicopter!!! These people are so loaded….check out that helicopter!! Look at this rich family play baseball! How entertaining! BORING.

np. actually, it was softball. and the unbelievable cruelty of some of the family members was on display.