SG "success rates" are inconsistent and vague!

[Anonymous]

I am going for an FET next month and am trying to figure out how many to transfer. A researcher in the field told me to ask SG not what their "pregnancy rates" were but their implantation rates based on fetal cardiac activity (I'm assuming that's their "ongoing pregnancy" rates).

Their 2009 success sheet says 45% for under 35. In one of their other publications it says 35%. In yet another it says 50%, and also "as good as fresh" (which for my age is over 60%)-- and these, I assume are all just clinical p. rates.

I need to find out what the rates are PER EMBRYO in order to figure out how many to transfer. And are these success rates based on perfect 5-day blasts or just the average transfer, do you think?

[Anonymous]

I'd ask your doctor - but my advice (which you didn't ask for, I realize) is to be conservative. You can always leave an embryo or two in the freezer for another FET -- no need to transfer them all at once!

[Anonymous]

My wife and I have been gone from IUI, to IVF, and not on to IVF with donor egg, so I understand why you are anxious about this. But my advice, not that you asked for it either, is to try and slow down and not over think the issue. We agonized over this issue in the past only to find that on day 3 we only had 3 viable eggs. We poured over statistics about increased problems that can come with carrying multiples vs singletons. We tried to decipher success rates only to wonder if they are truly reflective of our fertility circumstances. In the end I came to this conclusion. Some people put in 1, some 2, some 3 and end up with 1 child. Others put in 1 and get 1 child. Still others put in 1 and get twins. In the end, I realized, that the statistics of the past are not true indicators of our possible success. There are just too many factors in play to be accurately reflected in the group based statistics on SG web site. In our case, it made sense to use all 3 eggs when that is all we had on day 3 and my wife's age was 39 years old. Now that we are using donor eggs from a 26 year old, we are not considering the possibility of putting in more than one. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Thanks so much, PP. That was a great answer, and I think it's the only way to deal with this. My first IVF was textbook perfect, and resulted in a negative-- I feel like it was really built up to be successful due to my age and when it wasn't it was devastating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks so much, PP. That was a great answer, and I think it's the only way to deal with this. My first IVF was textbook perfect, and resulted in a negative-- I feel like it was really built up to be successful due to my age and when it wasn't it was devastating.

I hear you. I had the same reaction early on. We did our retrieval yesterday, so assuming we make it to a day five transfer, our tww will run right through new year's day. As if have family in town for the holidays were not enough my wife now can't even have a glass of spiked egg nog to make the disapproving glances from my mother about her cooking bearable.

[Anonymous]

If it makes you feel better my friend had a "textbook perfect" cycle at SG that ended with a BFN. She transferred one for her FET and now as an adorable 6 month old.

Also, try to remember that the fact that you had embryos left to freeze is a great sign that there is a BFP in your future!

[Anonymous]

The success rates that you see are inconsistent because some time in the last several years they started using vitrification to freeze embryos and their FET success rates shot up from around 30% to around 50% or more (depending on age, embryo quality, etc.). They're now as good as fresh.

I would ask your individual doctor about his view on how many you should transfer. Our doctor was able to plug my age, diagnosis, antral count, FSH, etc. into a program which compared my stats to a database of thousands of past SG patients and give me a predicted success rate.

Ironically, we transferred 2 "perfect" blasts and got a negative and then transferred one very poor looking, slow growing blast and she is now 11 months old. So all the statistics in the world can't truly predict individual success!

[Anonymous]

I heard from my doctor that they recently starting changing how they freeze eggs and how they select them; this may account for the some ofthe differences you mention.

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

I concur with the above comment that you should probably just go with your gut. I am due for retrieval on Friday (first round IVF) and while I don't yet know how many embryos we'll end up with, I'm thinking of transferring just 1 because I'd rather have a singleton. It's tough though, because it I get a BFN, I'll surely think that had we transferred 2 we might have been successful. It will take consistent recruitment of the logical part of my brain to remind myself that it aint' necessarily so.

[Anonymous]

OP here: I was told to ask SG what the implantation rates for "fetal cardiac activity" (I guess "ongoing preg. rates") are PER EMBRYO in order to decide how many to transfer.

Does anyone know if the 50% is per embryo, and is it clinical p. or ongoing p. rate?

I really wish they'd explain this in more detail, and also say whether their rates are for day 3s or 5s.

[Anonymous]

I think sg typically only freezes day 5 or later embryos. Honestly I think you are going to have to call to discuss your q's.

[Anonymous]

Yes, SG only freezes embryos that are older than 5 days. I learned this after our cycle last year when we had a day 5 transfer resulting in 2 beautiful babies. Eight made it to day 5, we transferred 2, SG froze the 3 that made it to day 8 or somewhere around there.