Does going to a Big 3 school really help with college admissions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the only help you get in college admissions is that the private school counselors have fewer kids and therefore more time to handhold kids through the process. In terms of actually getting admitted there seems to be no real difference (says a mom who had one in private and one at Wilson)

I agree with this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a parent who has spent $$$$ on a top flight non DC private. I think the answer is no. One factor you haven’t considered is that parents like me are more likely to be top school alums themselves. Between all those factors, I think it doesn’t much change admissions outcomes. And it certainly isn’t why I pay for private.

Same, but we're in DC.

I don't think our teens will end up at more competitive universities than our neighbors' kids at public HS, controlling for confounding variables.

I am certain they're getting different education experiences right now. Sometimes, it's the journey

This. I want my kids not just to have a *good* education but also a pleasant education. Both me and my spouse went to publics, spouse to TJ, and me in a differentiated T&G program within my neighborhood school. We both found the experience frustrating and wanted to opt out of the bureaucracy. It’s just a better experience, both for us as parents and for our kids as students.

We aren’t as rich as some people in this thread, but it also isn’t a huge strain financially. We aren’t trying to buy our kids’ way into Yale. We are trying to buy *our* way *out* of the public school experience.

I hear private school parents say things like this all the time, but what makes you think that plenty of public school kids aren't receiving pleasant educations as well? Do you really think they're all attending schools rife with gangs with kids shooting up in the bathrooms? My kids go to a good, (but not even one of the highest regarded) public schools in NOVA, and they are most definitely having a pleasant experience. There is a full selection of AP courses available to them, tons of choices for sports, activities, and clubs. Opportunities to travel to Europe with some of these groups, and the benefit of being with neighborhood friends. They are making great grades and have endless choices of extracurriculars provided directly from the school. What's not pleasant about that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What isn't often discussed, but should be is that if you can fully pay for university and don't need any financial aid, you get an edge up in admissions. Most kids at a Big 3 have parents who can fully pay AND are willing to fully pay for private college. All thing being equal if you have two kids with similar stats, the full pay kid is going to be admitted.

It really is affirmative action for rich people. Most people have to fully pay. Our HHI is around $175,000. We can't pay for a Big 3 or private university.

Your post asserts that college is a right. And that expensive colleges are a right as well.

I think the inference is actually that college admission should be a merit based, and coming from a wealthy family is not a merit-based criterion.

It is when you are applying to a private college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Controlling for things like standardized test scores, athletic ability, legacy status, underrepresented minority status, and accomplishment in extracurricular activities, does going to a Big 3 school help students get into very selective colleges?

I've heard parents at MoCo public schools, especially the ones other than Whitman and BCC, say the answer is yes. They point to the fact that some colleges almost never accept students from certain public schools that churn out high achievers every year.

I've also heard parents at Big 3 schools say the answer is no. They say that students who would be at the top of some other school end up in the middle at a Big 3 schools and get rejected more often than they should. They also say that Big 3 schools have lots of students whose parents went to Harvard and Yale, etc., which means they get the benefit of more legacy admissions.

Let the fireworks begin!

No controlling for these things absolutely not. The kids from Big 3's who get into Ivy's most likely would have gotten into the same schools even if they had gone to public. The reason you don't see more public school kids going to Ivy's is because they aren't from the same demographic. My friend's daughter was accepted to Columbia, but she is at UVA now because they felt it was too expensive. Obviously any family that has spent $40,000 a year for 12 years for K-12 education wouldn't think twice on spending $50,000+ for Columbia. In public school, many families that technically could pay tuition for expensive private colleges, are just way more uncomfortable with spending the money.

But I thought there were plenty of really rich people and legacies sending their kids to Wilson. Make up your minds, folks!

I am the PP you are responding to. We live in a far out VA suburb that doesn't have a lot of super wealthy people, but plenty of the public school kids around here get admitted to very high ranking schools but choose UVA & W&M instead. I have no idea about the income levels of families at Wilson, but it's not hard for me to imagine that a wealthy close in suburb would have plenty of families sending their kids to the local public. My point is that at public schools as a group, there obviously aren't as many very wealthy families as what you would find at a $40,000 private, but the kids who do well, do get admitted to top flight schools - actually being able to attend due to income is a different story.

[Anonymous]

Most of the top flight schools are need-blind re: financial aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a parent who has spent $$$$ on a top flight non DC private. I think the answer is no. One factor you haven’t considered is that parents like me are more likely to be top school alums themselves. Between all those factors, I think it doesn’t much change admissions outcomes. And it certainly isn’t why I pay for private.

Same, but we're in DC.

I don't think our teens will end up at more competitive universities than our neighbors' kids at public HS, controlling for confounding variables.

I am certain they're getting different education experiences right now. Sometimes, it's the journey

This. I want my kids not just to have a *good* education but also a pleasant education. Both me and my spouse went to publics, spouse to TJ, and me in a differentiated T&G program within my neighborhood school. We both found the experience frustrating and wanted to opt out of the bureaucracy. It’s just a better experience, both for us as parents and for our kids as students.

We aren’t as rich as some people in this thread, but it also isn’t a huge strain financially. We aren’t trying to buy our kids’ way into Yale. We are trying to buy *our* way *out* of the public school experience.

I hear private school parents say things like this all the time, but what makes you think that plenty of public school kids aren't receiving pleasant educations as well? Do you really think they're all attending schools rife with gangs with kids shooting up in the bathrooms? My kids go to a good, (but not even one of the highest regarded) public schools in NOVA, and they are most definitely having a pleasant experience. There is a full selection of AP courses available to them, tons of choices for sports, activities, and clubs. Opportunities to travel to Europe with some of these groups, and the benefit of being with neighborhood friends. They are making great grades and have endless choices of extracurriculars provided directly from the school. What's not pleasant about that?

+1. And with the money you save by not spending on private you can buy your kid every tutor/enrichment activity/travel opportunity.

[Anonymous]

Why waste previous hours on tutoring and enrichment when the same can be accomplished during school hours? As far as I'm concerned, the value of time is priceless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hear private school parents say things like this all the time, but what makes you think that plenty of public school kids aren't receiving pleasant educations as well? Do you really think they're all attending schools rife with gangs with kids shooting up in the bathrooms? My kids go to a good, (but not even one of the highest regarded) public schools in NOVA, and they are most definitely having a pleasant experience. There is a full selection of AP courses available to them, tons of choices for sports, activities, and clubs. Opportunities to travel to Europe with some of these groups, and the benefit of being with neighborhood friends. They are making great grades and have endless choices of extracurriculars provided directly from the school. What's not pleasant about that?

Having a kid at one of the big 3 and two kids at Mclean HS, here is my 2c:

#1: Big 3 is by invitation only whereas if you live in Mclean, you automatically attend Mclean HS, unless you choose IB or get accepted into TJ,
#2: Big 3 classes are much smaller with 7:1 student:teacher ratio. At Mclean, it is 35:1 student:teacher ratio
#3: Overcrowding at Mclean HS with trailers everywhere. It is hard to learn in an environment like that,
#4: Teaching at big 3 really prepares the kid for college. Not so at public schools, for the most part

I do not send my kid to big 3 for college admissions. On the contrary, my kid attended the big 3 ended up at VCU while the siblings attended Princeton and Cornell. As long as they learn and have passions for what they do, it is fine by me. Btw, my VCU kid is now a EVP at a consulting company and my Ivy league graduated kids are working for the VCU kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If in the top 10% of the class, yes, they will be in good shape. After that, no, I don't think it confers much advantage these days.

I agree with this. The problem being that it's really not easy to be in the top 10%. Pretty much everyone at a big3 for high school is very smart. Being in the top 10% is reserved for kids who study non-stop at the expense of almost everything else.
I'm beginning to realize that college admissions-wise my kids my kids would have been better off or just as good in public. They're well rounded kids--they work hard and do well in school, they play travel sports, they volunteer, they have active social lives---
but they're not going to be in the top 10%. That is reserved for the kids who are compulsive about school (more power to them but it's not most kids).

agree totally with this.

then you're an idiot. the top 10% at any school is full of kids who have good grades and lots of other stuff, including active social lives. none of them 'study no-stop at the expense of almost everything else'.

No need to be mean. I agree with original post. Top 10% rarely are the ones who are well rounded kids. My DC is at a big 3 and it's quite obvious that for the tippy top, good grades are the goal and they could care less about most extracurriculars unless they think it helps with college admissions. Most of those kids are not in sports or theater, or do much of anything else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a parent who has spent $$$$ on a top flight non DC private. I think the answer is no. One factor you haven’t considered is that parents like me are more likely to be top school alums themselves. Between all those factors, I think it doesn’t much change admissions outcomes. And it certainly isn’t why I pay for private.

Same, but we're in DC.

I don't think our teens will end up at more competitive universities than our neighbors' kids at public HS, controlling for confounding variables.

I am certain they're getting different education experiences right now. Sometimes, it's the journey

This. I want my kids not just to have a *good* education but also a pleasant education. Both me and my spouse went to publics, spouse to TJ, and me in a differentiated T&G program within my neighborhood school. We both found the experience frustrating and wanted to opt out of the bureaucracy. It’s just a better experience, both for us as parents and for our kids as students.

We aren’t as rich as some people in this thread, but it also isn’t a huge strain financially. We aren’t trying to buy our kids’ way into Yale. We are trying to buy *our* way *out* of the public school experience.

I hear private school parents say things like this all the time, but what makes you think that plenty of public school kids aren't receiving pleasant educations as well? Do you really think they're all attending schools rife with gangs with kids shooting up in the bathrooms? My kids go to a good, (but not even one of the highest regarded) public schools in NOVA, and they are most definitely having a pleasant experience. There is a full selection of AP courses available to them, tons of choices for sports, activities, and clubs. Opportunities to travel to Europe with some of these groups, and the benefit of being with neighborhood friends. They are making great grades and have endless choices of extracurriculars provided directly from the school. What's not pleasant about that?

Not PP, but what makes me think that some public school kids don't receive a "pleasant" education in public school is my own child's experience in a "good" public middle school. He never had to read a complete book. He described kids sitting in the back of the classroom and watching YouTube throughout class. His classes were loud and crowded. He had a classmate in one of his classes hauled off to the ER mid-class because she overdosed at school (to be fair, it was the teacher that noticed and handled it compassionately). He lost one year of STEM education because the school board decided to try an experimental curriculum that they abandoned 2/3rds of the way through the year when it became clear that it was a useless boondoggle. I genuinely believe the good and dedicated teachers and staff were doing their best in the constraints they had, too.

While I expected private school to be better (it has better be for that price), I've been shocked at just how much better it is. I don't think college admissions will be better, but I am very glad to pull my kid out of the learning environment he was in at the public school regardless of college outcome. And yes, it's a significant sacrifice for us financially.

I don't think all public school kids have this experience, of course, but we made our decisions based on our own experiences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If in the top 10% of the class, yes, they will be in good shape. After that, no, I don't think it confers much advantage these days.

I agree with this. The problem being that it's really not easy to be in the top 10%. Pretty much everyone at a big3 for high school is very smart. Being in the top 10% is reserved for kids who study non-stop at the expense of almost everything else.
I'm beginning to realize that college admissions-wise my kids my kids would have been better off or just as good in public. They're well rounded kids--they work hard and do well in school, they play travel sports, they volunteer, they have active social lives---
but they're not going to be in the top 10%. That is reserved for the kids who are compulsive about school (more power to them but it's not most kids).

agree totally with this.

then you're an idiot. the top 10% at any school is full of kids who have good grades and lots of other stuff, including active social lives. none of them 'study no-stop at the expense of almost everything else'.

No need to be mean. I agree with original post. Top 10% rarely are the ones who are well rounded kids. My DC is at a big 3 and it's quite obvious that for the tippy top, good grades are the goal and they could care less about most extracurriculars unless they think it helps with college admissions. Most of those kids are not in sports or theater, or do much of anything else.

aside from being completely inaccurate, I love how you can divine their motives for being in an extracurricular, as opposed to your child, who does extracurriculars for the love of it, I'm sure.

This is just a load of crap and nothing more than a way for you to make yourself and your kid feel better about their inability to get good grades and do other stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why waste previous hours on tutoring and enrichment when the same can be accomplished during school hours? As far as I'm concerned, the value of time is priceless.

This is the reason we pulled kids from AAP to private school in the middle school years. I don’t like to have to supplement outside of classroom and tutoring. Smaller class size really helps. But I am not sure of the value of private high schools given that the academics at top public’s seem stronger, particularly for stem subjects and the students seem more competitive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Probably not, but these schools have a vested interest in making you think there’s an inherent advantage.The only way to truly know this is to see all the data you listed in your OP. The schools don’t provide that.

I think the real advantage is in a kid getting more concentrated attention from college counselors than they’d get at a public high school. But I don’t think that translates to kids getting into better colleges so much as it means they apply to colleges that are a genuinely good fit for them.

+1 The schools won't come right out and say that coming from their school will help with college admissions, but they will say other things to give that implication. Like when they talk about how the school provides top notch college counseling - that is said to give the impression that the top notch counseling is going to help them get into colleges that they might not otherwise get into. Because other than that what's the benefit of top notch counseling?

The benefit of top-notch counseling where the counselors have few enough kids to actually know them is, they can help the kids to find colleges that are a good fit for that particular kid. They can see where similar kids from that high school have thrived. Harder to do if you are counseling 400 students each year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a parent who has spent $$$$ on a top flight non DC private. I think the answer is no. One factor you haven’t considered is that parents like me are more likely to be top school alums themselves. Between all those factors, I think it doesn’t much change admissions outcomes. And it certainly isn’t why I pay for private.

Same, but we're in DC.

I don't think our teens will end up at more competitive universities than our neighbors' kids at public HS, controlling for confounding variables.

I am certain they're getting different education experiences right now. Sometimes, it's the journey

This. I want my kids not just to have a *good* education but also a pleasant education. Both me and my spouse went to publics, spouse to TJ, and me in a differentiated T&G program within my neighborhood school. We both found the experience frustrating and wanted to opt out of the bureaucracy. It’s just a better experience, both for us as parents and for our kids as students.

We aren’t as rich as some people in this thread, but it also isn’t a huge strain financially. We aren’t trying to buy our kids’ way into Yale. We are trying to buy *our* way *out* of the public school experience.

I hear private school parents say things like this all the time, but what makes you think that plenty of public school kids aren't receiving pleasant educations as well? Do you really think they're all attending schools rife with gangs with kids shooting up in the bathrooms? My kids go to a good, (but not even one of the highest regarded) public schools in NOVA, and they are most definitely having a pleasant experience. There is a full selection of AP courses available to them, tons of choices for sports, activities, and clubs. Opportunities to travel to Europe with some of these groups, and the benefit of being with neighborhood friends. They are making great grades and have endless choices of extracurriculars provided directly from the school. What's not pleasant about that?

If you’re so happy and content with your choices why are you posting on the private school forum then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why waste previous hours on tutoring and enrichment when the same can be accomplished during school hours? As far as I'm concerned, the value of time is priceless.

THank you. Previous 2 PPs aren't really getting it.