Best elementary school for a STEM gifted child?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thread went off track when some W parent asserted TPMS was inferior to their W feeder since Their high school had higher SAT average.

There is a well documented correlation between affluence and standardized test scores. Race is a proxy for SES. Blair is the most diverse high school I’m Maryland whereas Ws are homogenous by comparison.

Comparing SAT scores of the largest demographic cohort common to these schools is the fairest way to compare these schools as opposed to comparing the affluence of the surrounding communities.

Some of us are just saying on average, TPMS is not as strong as RF or CJ for the non-magnet part as far as STEM is concerned, based on SAT scores of Blair students vs Wootton students.
You are the one using the word "inferior".


For the rest of your post, I agree that we can make all kinds of comparisons, as long as they are based on valid data (for example, one of the previous PP where the average SAT for WHITE Blair students were mistakenly used as score for all Blair students - that is not valid).

People make their decisions based on the facts. So if some people believe: "I don't care what SAT average the school has, since that can be a result of certain groups of students not doing well in SAT. As long as my group does well, it means the teachers teach well and the school guides well and my kid will succeed", that is perfectly fine. Some may even think having their kids going to a school were average SAT is not so high, would be a good thing since that way , their kids can easily become the top in the school.

Other parents may prefer a school with better average stats - they may believe that the teaching resources are not that different between schools yet they want their kids to be among kids that do better (SAT is one way to judge that).

It is the parents' choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thread went off track when some W parent asserted TPMS was inferior to their W feeder since Their high school had higher SAT average.

There is a well documented correlation between affluence and standardized test scores. Race is a proxy for SES. Blair is the most diverse high school I’m Maryland whereas Ws are homogenous by comparison.

Comparing SAT scores of the largest demographic cohort common to these schools is the fairest way to compare these schools as opposed to comparing the affluence of the surrounding communities.

Some of us are just saying on average, TPMS is not as strong as RF or CJ for the non-magnet part as far as STEM is concerned, based on SAT scores of Blair students vs Wootton students.
You are the one using the word "inferior".


For the rest of your post, I agree that we can make all kinds of comparisons, as long as they are based on valid data (for example, one of the previous PP where the average SAT for WHITE Blair students were mistakenly used as score for all Blair students - that is not valid).

People make their decisions based on the facts. So if some people believe: "I don't care what SAT average the school has, since that can be a result of certain groups of students not doing well in SAT. As long as my group does well, it means the teachers teach well and the school guides well and my kid will succeed", that is perfectly fine. Some may even think having their kids going to a school were average SAT is not so high, would be a good thing since that way , their kids can easily become the top in the school.

Other parents may prefer a school with better average stats - they may believe that the teaching resources are not that different between schools yet they want their kids to be among kids that do better (SAT is one way to judge that).

It is the parents' choice.

The poster clearly did this intentionally in order to isolate for the vast demographic and socio-economic differences between these schools by comparing similar groups at both schools we see how these schools really stack up. They found that a similar student at Blair outperforms a similar student at Wooton. It's really not that complicated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Funny, I was just looking at the county's data on this very subject and comparing the SAT's of largest common demographic of Blair and Wooton shows:

Blair 1326
Wooton 1262

https://montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2017/1771102HS%20Princ_SAT%20Partic_Perf%20Class%20of%202017.pdf

The report is fascinating. Wish the county made it easier to find out these things.

They don't make it easy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Funny, I was just looking at the county's data on this very subject and comparing the SAT's of largest common demographic of Blair and Wooton shows:

Blair 1326
Wooton 1262

https://montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2017/1771102HS%20Princ_SAT%20Partic_Perf%20Class%20of%202017.pdf

The report is fascinating. Wish the county made it easier to find out these things.

They don't make it easy.

Their public reports are all linked here. It's not hard to find them:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thread went off track when some W parent asserted TPMS was inferior to their W feeder since Their high school had higher SAT average.

There is a well documented correlation between affluence and standardized test scores. Race is a proxy for SES. Blair is the most diverse high school I’m Maryland whereas Ws are homogenous by comparison.

Comparing SAT scores of the largest demographic cohort common to these schools is the fairest way to compare these schools as opposed to comparing the affluence of the surrounding communities.

Some of us are just saying on average, TPMS is not as strong as RF or CJ for the non-magnet part as far as STEM is concerned, based on SAT scores of Blair students vs Wootton students.
You are the one using the word "inferior".


For the rest of your post, I agree that we can make all kinds of comparisons, as long as they are based on valid data (for example, one of the previous PP where the average SAT for WHITE Blair students were mistakenly used as score for all Blair students - that is not valid).

People make their decisions based on the facts. So if some people believe: "I don't care what SAT average the school has, since that can be a result of certain groups of students not doing well in SAT. As long as my group does well, it means the teachers teach well and the school guides well and my kid will succeed", that is perfectly fine. Some may even think having their kids going to a school were average SAT is not so high, would be a good thing since that way , their kids can easily become the top in the school.

Other parents may prefer a school with better average stats - they may believe that the teaching resources are not that different between schools yet they want their kids to be among kids that do better (SAT is one way to judge that).

It is the parents' choice.

The poster clearly did this intentionally in order to isolate for the vast demographic and socio-economic differences between these schools by comparing similar groups at both schools we see how these schools really stack up. They found that a similar student at Blair outperforms a similar student at Wooton. It's really not that complicated.

It is not that complicated.

So it is up to the parents to decide: do you want your kids (if not able to enter the magnet program) to go a school where it appears that each ethnic group is doing better, or to a school where the average of all students is better. The former is BLAIR and the latter is WOOTTON (in that comparison).

So if one believes teachers and programs at BLAIR are better so that my kids will do better despite the influence of the other overall lower performing students, one would choose BLAIR. If one believes the students influence is more important, one would choose WOOTTON. If neither matters, than look at other aspects...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thread went off track when some W parent asserted TPMS was inferior to their W feeder since Their high school had higher SAT average.

There is a well documented correlation between affluence and standardized test scores. Race is a proxy for SES. Blair is the most diverse high school I’m Maryland whereas Ws are homogenous by comparison.

Comparing SAT scores of the largest demographic cohort common to these schools is the fairest way to compare these schools as opposed to comparing the affluence of the surrounding communities.

Some of us are just saying on average, TPMS is not as strong as RF or CJ for the non-magnet part as far as STEM is concerned, based on SAT scores of Blair students vs Wootton students.
You are the one using the word "inferior".


For the rest of your post, I agree that we can make all kinds of comparisons, as long as they are based on valid data (for example, one of the previous PP where the average SAT for WHITE Blair students were mistakenly used as score for all Blair students - that is not valid).

People make their decisions based on the facts. So if some people believe: "I don't care what SAT average the school has, since that can be a result of certain groups of students not doing well in SAT. As long as my group does well, it means the teachers teach well and the school guides well and my kid will succeed", that is perfectly fine. Some may even think having their kids going to a school were average SAT is not so high, would be a good thing since that way , their kids can easily become the top in the school.

Other parents may prefer a school with better average stats - they may believe that the teaching resources are not that different between schools yet they want their kids to be among kids that do better (SAT is one way to judge that).

It is the parents' choice.

The poster clearly did this intentionally in order to isolate for the vast demographic and socio-economic differences between these schools by comparing similar groups at both schools we see how these schools really stack up. They found that a similar student at Blair outperforms a similar student at Wooton. It's really not that complicated.

It is not that complicated.

So it is up to the parents to decide: do you want your kids (if not able to enter the magnet program) to go a school where it appears that each ethnic group is doing better, or to a school where the average of all students is better. The former is BLAIR and the latter is WOOTTON (in that comparison).

So if one believes teachers and programs at BLAIR are better so that my kids will do better despite the influence of the other overall lower performing students, one would choose BLAIR. If one believes the students influence is more important, one would choose WOOTTON. If neither matters, than look at other aspects...

My take away was a little different - the same kid would do well at either school despite differences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thread went off track when some W parent asserted TPMS was inferior to their W feeder since Their high school had higher SAT average.

There is a well documented correlation between affluence and standardized test scores. Race is a proxy for SES. Blair is the most diverse high school I’m Maryland whereas Ws are homogenous by comparison.

Comparing SAT scores of the largest demographic cohort common to these schools is the fairest way to compare these schools as opposed to comparing the affluence of the surrounding communities.

Some of us are just saying on average, TPMS is not as strong as RF or CJ for the non-magnet part as far as STEM is concerned, based on SAT scores of Blair students vs Wootton students.
You are the one using the word "inferior".


For the rest of your post, I agree that we can make all kinds of comparisons, as long as they are based on valid data (for example, one of the previous PP where the average SAT for WHITE Blair students were mistakenly used as score for all Blair students - that is not valid).

People make their decisions based on the facts. So if some people believe: "I don't care what SAT average the school has, since that can be a result of certain groups of students not doing well in SAT. As long as my group does well, it means the teachers teach well and the school guides well and my kid will succeed", that is perfectly fine. Some may even think having their kids going to a school were average SAT is not so high, would be a good thing since that way , their kids can easily become the top in the school.

Other parents may prefer a school with better average stats - they may believe that the teaching resources are not that different between schools yet they want their kids to be among kids that do better (SAT is one way to judge that).

It is the parents' choice.

The poster clearly did this intentionally in order to isolate for the vast demographic and socio-economic differences between these schools by comparing similar groups at both schools we see how these schools really stack up. They found that a similar student at Blair outperforms a similar student at Wooton. It's really not that complicated.

It is not that complicated.

So it is up to the parents to decide: do you want your kids (if not able to enter the magnet program) to go a school where it appears that each ethnic group is doing better, or to a school where the average of all students is better. The former is BLAIR and the latter is WOOTTON (in that comparison).

So if one believes teachers and programs at BLAIR are better so that my kids will do better despite the influence of the other overall lower performing students, one would choose BLAIR. If one believes the students influence is more important, one would choose WOOTTON. If neither matters, than look at other aspects...

My take away was a little different - the same kid would do well at either school despite differences.

The real-estate industry has always pushed the narrative of good and bad schools to help inflate home prices, but the evidence for this is superficial. Case and point W parents falling all over themselves to get their kids into Blair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thread went off track when some W parent asserted TPMS was inferior to their W feeder since Their high school had higher SAT average.

There is a well documented correlation between affluence and standardized test scores. Race is a proxy for SES. Blair is the most diverse high school I’m Maryland whereas Ws are homogenous by comparison.

Comparing SAT scores of the largest demographic cohort common to these schools is the fairest way to compare these schools as opposed to comparing the affluence of the surrounding communities.

Some of us are just saying on average, TPMS is not as strong as RF or CJ for the non-magnet part as far as STEM is concerned, based on SAT scores of Blair students vs Wootton students.
You are the one using the word "inferior".


For the rest of your post, I agree that we can make all kinds of comparisons, as long as they are based on valid data (for example, one of the previous PP where the average SAT for WHITE Blair students were mistakenly used as score for all Blair students - that is not valid).

People make their decisions based on the facts. So if some people believe: "I don't care what SAT average the school has, since that can be a result of certain groups of students not doing well in SAT. As long as my group does well, it means the teachers teach well and the school guides well and my kid will succeed", that is perfectly fine. Some may even think having their kids going to a school were average SAT is not so high, would be a good thing since that way , their kids can easily become the top in the school.

Other parents may prefer a school with better average stats - they may believe that the teaching resources are not that different between schools yet they want their kids to be among kids that do better (SAT is one way to judge that).

It is the parents' choice.

The poster clearly did this intentionally in order to isolate for the vast demographic and socio-economic differences between these schools by comparing similar groups at both schools we see how these schools really stack up. They found that a similar student at Blair outperforms a similar student at Wooton. It's really not that complicated.

It is not that complicated.

So it is up to the parents to decide: do you want your kids (if not able to enter the magnet program) to go a school where it appears that each ethnic group is doing better, or to a school where the average of all students is better. The former is BLAIR and the latter is WOOTTON (in that comparison).

So if one believes teachers and programs at BLAIR are better so that my kids will do better despite the influence of the other overall lower performing students, one would choose BLAIR. If one believes the students influence is more important, one would choose WOOTTON. If neither matters, than look at other aspects...

My take away was a little different - the same kid would do well at either school despite differences.

I wouldn't think it matters that much either.

But if some parents really want to make a comparison, they can think about these.

Also, I feel it is a bit awkward to say a school is "better, stronger, but unfortunately we have more lower performing students so that our average SAT is lower".
I repeat what I said before - in MoCo, the students define the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The real-estate industry has always pushed the narrative of good and bad schools to help inflate home prices, but the evidence for this is superficial. Case and point W parents falling all over themselves to get their kids into Blair.

You are misleading people by deliberately ignoring the difference between "Blair Magnet Program" and "Blair".

I haven't heard of any W parents trying to get their kids into the non-magnet part of Blair.

I am not saying Blair is a terrible school - it looks average in the county. So it is still a good school. That's it.

The magnet school is one of the best in the country, that is also well known.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The real-estate industry has always pushed the narrative of good and bad schools to help inflate home prices, but the evidence for this is superficial. Case and point W parents falling all over themselves to get their kids into Blair.

You are misleading people by deliberately ignoring the difference between "Blair Magnet Program" and "Blair".

I haven't heard of any W parents trying to get their kids into the non-magnet part of Blair.

I am not saying Blair is a terrible school - it looks average in the county. So it is still a good school. That's it.

The magnet school is one of the best in the country, that is also well known.

They sure do in the DCC choice program. It's been stated to me by administration in the choice process that Blair is by far the most requested non-home-school in the DCC. It isn't close. I'm not going to find a source for you so don't believe me if it doesn't fit your narrative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The real-estate industry has always pushed the narrative of good and bad schools to help inflate home prices, but the evidence for this is superficial. Case and point W parents falling all over themselves to get their kids into Blair.

You are misleading people by deliberately ignoring the difference between "Blair Magnet Program" and "Blair".

I haven't heard of any W parents trying to get their kids into the non-magnet part of Blair.

I am not saying Blair is a terrible school - it looks average in the county. So it is still a good school. That's it.

The magnet school is one of the best in the country, that is also well known.

They sure do in the DCC choice program. It's been stated to me by administration in the choice process that Blair is by far the most requested non-home-school in the DCC. It isn't close. I'm not going to find a source for you so don't believe me if it doesn't fit your narrative.

Well, I believe you. But please note that none of the W schools are in the DCC. I do not find it surprising that when given the choice, parent could choose Blair over the other DCC schools (Einstein, Kennedy, Northwood, and Wheaton).

In the PP people are comparing Blair and Wootton (or the other Ws).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The real-estate industry has always pushed the narrative of good and bad schools to help inflate home prices, but the evidence for this is superficial. Case and point W parents falling all over themselves to get their kids into Blair.

You are misleading people by deliberately ignoring the difference between "Blair Magnet Program" and "Blair".

I haven't heard of any W parents trying to get their kids into the non-magnet part of Blair.

I am not saying Blair is a terrible school - it looks average in the county. So it is still a good school. That's it.

The magnet school is one of the best in the country, that is also well known.

You might want to look at the thread's title. It's a primer on how to get your kids into TPMS. Face you got a case of Blair envy bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Actually, that's not true. Let’s eliminate the out of boundary magnet scores from that cohort's SAT average at Blair to see how the general population at these schools stack up by minimizing the impact of demographic differences. This seems sensible given that Blair is the most diverse school in the state whereas Wooton is one of the segregated schools.

1526 Blair Magnet SAT average public knowledge
1326 Blair SAT average score for common cohort from the report
250 total number of kids from the cohort that took SAT according to report
32 number of OOB magnet kids from the cohort that took the SAT (40% of OOB 80 students belong to this cohort = 32)
where “x” is Blair’s in boundary SAT average for largest common cohort

(250 - 32) / 250 = 87% non-magnet cohort total
13% magnet % of cohort total

0.87x + 0.13 * 1526 = 1326
0.87x + 198.38 = 1326
0.87x = 1326 – 198
x = (1326 – 198) / 0.87 = 1296 Blair SAT average without magnet

Blair's 1296 without the magnet is still higher than Wooton

So when comparing children with similar SES backgrounds at Blair and Wooton, they perform a little better at Blair. Big deal. Nobody cares.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Actually, that's not true. Let’s eliminate the out of boundary magnet scores from that cohort's SAT average at Blair to see how the general population at these schools stack up by minimizing the impact of demographic differences. This seems sensible given that Blair is the most diverse school in the state whereas Wooton is one of the segregated schools.

1526 Blair Magnet SAT average public knowledge
1326 Blair SAT average score for common cohort from the report
250 total number of kids from the cohort that took SAT according to report
32 number of OOB magnet kids from the cohort that took the SAT (40% of OOB 80 students belong to this cohort = 32)
where “x” is Blair’s in boundary SAT average for largest common cohort

(250 - 32) / 250 = 87% non-magnet cohort total
13% magnet % of cohort total

0.87x + 0.13 * 1526 = 1326
0.87x + 198.38 = 1326
0.87x = 1326 – 198
x = (1326 – 198) / 0.87 = 1296 Blair SAT average without magnet

Blair's 1296 without the magnet is still higher than Wooton

So when comparing children with similar SES backgrounds at Blair and Wooton, they perform a little better at Blair. Big deal. Nobody cares.

If their intention was to undermine the narrative that there are "good" and "bad" schools, they were successful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blair's 2018 SAT score for the Magnet program is 1531
The whole school SAT score is 1318.
This is from the school documents.

Wow, that is a nice jump! The whole school mean SAT score for 2017 was 1142 according to

https://montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2017/1771102HS%20Princ_SAT%20Partic_Perf%20Class%20of%202017.pdf

Can you post a link for 2018?

https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link/track?uri=urn%3Aaaid%3Ascds%3AUS%3A544d3cea-590a-4234-8efa-69b2be579481