Why don't white students go to Banneker?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi everyone,

I'm a reporter with the Washington City Paper, and I'm working on a story on a question that has been raised several times on this forum: Why don't white students go to Banneker? I'm interested in speaking with parents who fall under one of these categories:

- You have (or recently have) a child at Banneker
- You're considering Banneker
- You opted not to apply to Banneker, or got in but decided not to go there

If you match the description, please feel free to send me an email at awiener (at) washingtoncitypaper (dot) com.

Thanks very much!
Aaron

Because its Majority Black and located in Georgia Avenue near Howard University. Whites will not send their kids to majority black schools regardless of the test scores. People will say "Wilson" but lets be honest the "honor courses" or "humanities program" are Majority white and a school within a school where whites are the majority

Then how do explain all of the sudden interest in Cleveland Elementary School right down the street? White people just discovered it. It frequently appeared on this year's DCUM lottery threads.

(I'm black and didn't mention Cleveland to a soul until my kids got in. It's golden. Also one of the things I loved about Cleveland is that is majority AA/Latino, so my kids get to experience a strong minority populated educational setting, where all of the high achievers and school leadership looked like them.)

Wow, that's racist

Nope, it is not. It is countering a racist society that has a preschool to prison pipeline for Black children. Please stop calling black people racists for trying to counter institutional racism. It is not cute.

Exactly.

Remember in the film about the big upcoming fight, Muhammad Ali commented with astonishment that the airline pilots were black?

It's quite dated, but you get the idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jclLiDjwuE0

It's important that my children see leaders, high achievers, involved parents (especially fathers!), who look like them so that they grow up with an understanding that this is possible. They are constantly fed a narrow stereotype of what AA youth represent, and it's so undermining. I like that they see teachers and families in a positive light and that they are exposed to a broad spectrum of people throughout the black community. African, Caribbean, homegrown DC, affluent, public housing----so much is represented within Cleveland. It's wonderful.

I don't think my stance is comparable to white supremacy. I believe it's more akin to single-sex education. I went to an all-girls school and a majority female college. I had a very different experience than those who went co-ed. Girls speak up in class and excel in math. Girls are strong and capable. Female head of school, female teachers. Great experience.

I also went to Banneker and relished being surrounded by a bunch of fellow black nerds. It felt great to belong and never be afraid of "acting white" or "talking white" when I just wanted to embrace algebra. I'm glad they had us all take Latin our first year there. I only pray my children get in and have the opportunity to be smart and engaged in a safe environment like Banneker. Other predominantly-black high schools punish their nerds. I don't want that for my children.

Understand it or not, it's real.

This is a useful post for Aaron. Between whites who think their white kids will fare better by attending schools with more white kids who test much better than the average Banneker student and those who sense that posters like PP would view them as gate-crashers who would interfere with Banneker's role as an elite school for the black bourgeoisie, there's not a large pool of whites interested in Banneker for their kids, and it shrinks to zero when you factor in the reluctance of white parents to have their kids be the "only" at the school.

It's not rocket science, and it won't change any time soon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi everyone,

I'm a reporter with the Washington City Paper, and I'm working on a story on a question that has been raised several times on this forum: Why don't white students go to Banneker? I'm interested in speaking with parents who fall under one of these categories:

- You have (or recently have) a child at Banneker
- You're considering Banneker
- You opted not to apply to Banneker, or got in but decided not to go there

If you match the description, please feel free to send me an email at awiener (at) washingtoncitypaper (dot) com.

Thanks very much!
Aaron

Because its Majority Black and located in Georgia Avenue near Howard University. Whites will not send their kids to majority black schools regardless of the test scores. People will say "Wilson" but lets be honest the "honor courses" or "humanities program" are Majority white and a school within a school where whites are the majority

Then how do explain all of the sudden interest in Cleveland Elementary School right down the street? White people just discovered it. It frequently appeared on this year's DCUM lottery threads.

(I'm black and didn't mention Cleveland to a soul until my kids got in. It's golden. Also one of the things I loved about Cleveland is that is majority AA/Latino, so my kids get to experience a strong minority populated educational setting, where all of the high achievers and school leadership looked like them.)

Wow, that's racist

Nope, it is not. It is countering a racist society that has a preschool to prison pipeline for Black children. Please stop calling black people racists for trying to counter institutional racism. It is not cute.

Exactly.

Remember in the film about the big upcoming fight, Muhammad Ali commented with astonishment that the airline pilots were black?

It's quite dated, but you get the idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jclLiDjwuE0

It's important that my children see leaders, high achievers, involved parents (especially fathers!), who look like them so that they grow up with an understanding that this is possible. They are constantly fed a narrow stereotype of what AA youth represent, and it's so undermining. I like that they see teachers and families in a positive light and that they are exposed to a broad spectrum of people throughout the black community. African, Caribbean, homegrown DC, affluent, public housing----so much is represented within Cleveland. It's wonderful.

I don't think my stance is comparable to white supremacy. I believe it's more akin to single-sex education. I went to an all-girls school and a majority female college. I had a very different experience than those who went co-ed. Girls speak up in class and excel in math. Girls are strong and capable. Female head of school, female teachers. Great experience.

I also went to Banneker and relished being surrounded by a bunch of fellow black nerds. It felt great to belong and never be afraid of "acting white" or "talking white" when I just wanted to embrace algebra. I'm glad they had us all take Latin our first year there. I only pray my children get in and have the opportunity to be smart and engaged in a safe environment like Banneker. Other predominantly-black high schools punish their nerds. I don't want that for my children.

Understand it or not, it's real.

This is a useful post for Aaron. Between whites who think their white kids will fare better by attending schools with more white kids who test much better than the average Banneker student and those who sense that posters like PP would view them as gate-crashers who would interfere with Banneker's role as an elite school for the black bourgeoisie, there's not a large pool of whites interested in Banneker for their kids, and it shrinks to zero when you factor in the reluctance of white parents to have their kids be the "only" at the school.

It's not rocket science, and it won't change any time soon.

Good summary!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Great to learn about your experience, it sounds amazing. Can i ask you, did you also apply to SWW? How are both schools seen by academic-oriented black teens?

I was accepted at both, but Walls was my backup school. Banneker was more prominent at the time, although SWW was catching up. I was 13, so I didn't do any extensive research. It was just known that Banneker was the "smart school." I heard that SWW was a good school, but they didn't have the bragging rights that Banneker did back then. Plus, from a pubescent boy's perspective: Banneker had the best looking girls at a ratio of 4:1. In a school with zero jocks, I was happy to take those odds.

I would agree. I have friends that went to Walls and it was not at all popular or competitive 20+ years ago.

And now?

At least in my circles, Walls is the hottest school around

The people I know of who sought Walls out either thought they could get into the early college program (but as I understand it, they only put 15 kids a year into that program, meaning most can't get in) or they wanted something smaller than Wilson. So either bait-and-switch or "I don't want my kids to go to Columbine" avoidance which doesn't exactly make it "hot."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The "majority black" explanation doesn't distinguish Ellington or Hardy, both of which are majority black and over 10% white every year. Same was true of Walls (HS) until recently -- (and Walls is still plurality black). A good answer to OP's question will distinguish those schools.

The reason why the IB population largely avoids Hardy is that it is a shi--y school. At the same time Hardy is less shi--y than the nominal middke school "choices" that most of its OOB population has.

[Anonymous]

Banneker doesn't fare too well in the latest Challenge Index results. The school does OK at getting kids to take advanced classes, but only 27% of graduates actually pass an AP or IB, which is seriously underwhelming for a magnet-type school. Wilson does better as a neighborhood school with OOB students who effectively treat it as a magnet.

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/local/highschoolchallenge/schools/2015/list/local/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Banneker doesn't fare too well in the latest Challenge Index results. The school does OK at getting kids to take advanced classes, but only 27% of graduates actually pass an AP or IB, which is seriously underwhelming for a magnet-type school. Wilson does better as a neighborhood school with OOB students who effectively treat it as a magnet.

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/local/highschoolchallenge/schools/2015/list/local/

That is surprising. The numbers for Walls are way ahead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Banneker doesn't fare too well in the latest Challenge Index results. The school does OK at getting kids to take advanced classes, but only 27% of graduates actually pass an AP or IB, which is seriously underwhelming for a magnet-type school. Wilson does better as a neighborhood school with OOB students who effectively treat it as a magnet.

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/local/highschoolchallenge/schools/2015/list/local/

PP, thanks for sharing, this is very interesting. Ranking of the DC-based high schools, based on that challenge index:

2 School Without Walls Washington DC
3 Washington International School (P) Washington DC
4 Saint Anselm's Abbey (P) Washington DC

19 National Cathedral (P) Washington DC

33 Woodrow Wilson Washington DC
33 Banneker Washington DC

39 Georgetown Visitation (P) Washington DC

42 Columbia Heights Washington DC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you not think your white student can score higher than MoCo average for white scores at Banneker?

Because white students' scores are higher because they go to schools with lots of other people with high scores. Your logic would make more sense if whites were somehow inherently better at the SATs than blacks, such that any other difference away from the mean has to be explained by school performance. But of course that's not true. Their scores are higher because of some combination of cultural biases on the test and because they spend more time in peer groups of other kids who are likely to obtain high scores. Regardless of the precise balance of reasons that white scores are higher, the surest way to perpetuate that high score is to send your kid to a school with high overall test scores and a lot of white kids.

You left out the fact that high SES white parents spend money on SAT/ACT test prep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Banneker doesn't fare too well in the latest Challenge Index results. The school does OK at getting kids to take advanced classes, but only 27% of graduates actually pass an AP or IB, which is seriously underwhelming for a magnet-type school. Wilson does better as a neighborhood school with OOB students who effectively treat it as a magnet.

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/local/highschoolchallenge/schools/2015/list/local/

PP, thanks for sharing, this is very interesting. Ranking of the DC-based high schools, based on that challenge index:

2 School Without Walls Washington DC
3 Washington International School (P) Washington DC
4 Saint Anselm's Abbey (P) Washington DC

19 National Cathedral (P) Washington DC

33 Woodrow Wilson Washington DC
33 Banneker Washington DC

Georgetown Visitation (P) Washington DC

42 Columbia Heights Washington DC

This is totally based on how much the schools push AP exams. It's telling that Sidwell Friemds, St Albans and GDS don't appear on the list at all. Are they "unchallenging" schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you not think your white student can score higher than MoCo average for white scores at Banneker?

Because white students' scores are higher because they go to schools with lots of other people with high scores. Your logic would make more sense if whites were somehow inherently better at the SATs than blacks, such that any other difference away from the mean has to be explained by school performance. But of course that's not true. Their scores are higher because of some combination of cultural biases on the test and because they spend more time in peer groups of other kids who are likely to obtain high scores. Regardless of the precise balance of reasons that white scores are higher, the surest way to perpetuate that high score is to send your kid to a school with high overall test scores and a lot of white kids.

You left out the fact that high SES white parents spend money on SAT/ACT test prep.

high SES black, Latino and Asian parents spend money on SAT/ACT test prep too. So?

[Anonymous]

Because there's not enough whites graduating from the middle schools at one time to make a significant number in the enrollment. If you're averaging only 100 incoming freshmen per year at Banneker...the ratio would be about to have over 100 whites apply to screen out 80% to attend. There's not 100 white students at one time in the 8th grade to make the selection process fair. It is not that they don't attend, they have figured out that the deck is stacked against them in the oddest way. Again, I remember the hoopla when Banneker was created, it was to help with the white flight but in actuality it just strengthen the black academia and its just dandy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Banneker doesn't fare too well in the latest Challenge Index results. The school does OK at getting kids to take advanced classes, but only 27% of graduates actually pass an AP or IB, which is seriously underwhelming for a magnet-type school. Wilson does better as a neighborhood school with OOB students who effectively treat it as a magnet.

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/local/highschoolchallenge/schools/2015/list/local/

PP, thanks for sharing, this is very interesting. Ranking of the DC-based high schools, based on that challenge index:

2 School Without Walls Washington DC
3 Washington International School (P) Washington DC
4 Saint Anselm's Abbey (P) Washington DC

19 National Cathedral (P) Washington DC

33 Woodrow Wilson Washington DC
33 Banneker Washington DC

Georgetown Visitation (P) Washington DC

42 Columbia Heights Washington DC

This is totally based on how much the schools push AP exams. It's telling that Sidwell Friemds, St Albans and GDS don't appear on the list at all. Are they "unchallenging" schools?

Not true or relevant to the Banneker discussion...
1) Index is based on AP and IB
2) Banneker does push its IB program...heck, it defines itself as an 'IB World School"
3) So it is very telling it ranks so low compared to Walls, and just at the same level as non-selective Wilson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Banneker doesn't fare too well in the latest Challenge Index results. The school does OK at getting kids to take advanced classes, but only 27% of graduates actually pass an AP or IB, which is seriously underwhelming for a magnet-type school. Wilson does better as a neighborhood school with OOB students who effectively treat it as a magnet.

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/local/highschoolchallenge/schools/2015/list/local/

PP, thanks for sharing, this is very interesting. Ranking of the DC-based high schools, based on that challenge index:

2 School Without Walls Washington DC
3 Washington International School (P) Washington DC
4 Saint Anselm's Abbey (P) Washington DC

19 National Cathedral (P) Washington DC

33 Woodrow Wilson Washington DC
33 Banneker Washington DC

Georgetown Visitation (P) Washington DC

42 Columbia Heights Washington DC

This is totally based on how much the schools push AP exams. It's telling that Sidwell Friemds, St Albans and GDS don't appear on the list at all. Are they "unchallenging" schools?

likely those schools won't share their data, so they can't be analyzed

[Anonymous]

Also for this index, it doesn't matter what the scores were -- just how many students take the AP or IB test. It's a straight ratio of graduates to tests taken.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/how-americas-most-challenging-high-schools-works-the-selection-method/2015/04/14/cfdd9e44-e30a-11e4-905f-cc896d379a32_story.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm an Ivy interviewer, and the applicants I've seen from Wilson and Banneker look pretty similar: 5's on AP's, strong extracurricular interests, (and middle class homes with parents with graduate degrees). I would consider Banneker for my child (many years from now). A few questions I would ask would be

1) Would the larger setting at Wilson give my child better extracurricular opportuities?

2) What is the distribution of IB diploma scores for Banneker students? Since I know selective colleges will be expecting a kid from a home like mine to be on track for a diploma score of 39+, is the teaching in place that would allow my child to attain that score, if he applied himself?
3) Is the tough grading scale disadvantageous to college applicants? Given the low SATs, this may be a more complicated question than it is for some private that grades hard, but has kids who get a string of 800s.

Current Banneker parent here.
1) Yes. Banneker has some extracurriculars and sports, but they are really not the focus, all the administration cares about is academics. I have a very sporty kid and wished I had considered that.
2) I'm not sure about this one, my kid is not in the IB track.
3) I asked this question and the answer I received was this: When Banneker sends transcripts they also send along a note about the alternative/tougher grading scale. I was told that many colleges just recalculate the GPA based on the traditional grading scale and I was also told that many colleges are used to/aware of the alternative grading scale from Banneker.