Moving to DC with many questions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, but there are pockets of "suburban" living even in Georgetown. Places where you can have a backyard and a cookout. There are adorable little streets in WestEnd that are entirely residential, yet close to retail. If she can afford Georgetown and its environs, why settle for anything else? I concede the lack of a metro stop is annoying, but lots of convenient buses-- preferrable to be above ground when you are new to the city anyway! Seems to me that Georgetown IS suburban compared to NYC.

Signed,

Happy Cap Hill Resident

Urban doesn't always equal living in a pocket of 30 story buildings and fighting for sidewalk space every day, Georgetown is most definitely not suburban, otherwise, all cities of the US would be suburban if compared to Manhattan, because, this density simply doesn't exist anywhere in the US and most of Europe. I am from SF, lived in many US cities, including NYC. The entire comparison of DC to NYC is just silly, anyone trying to move to DC to find a cheaper alternative to Manhattan is going to be deeply disappointed. I don't think OP is looking to replicate Manhattan, otherwise, I would say, just stay there. As far as Capitol Hill touted here as the most fit choice for former New Yorkers, I disagree. It's very similar to the rest of DC in terms of density and access to amenities, it's not more "urban" than Georgetown or Dupont, or Logan, or West End, or U street. It also makes no sense for OP to live there given commute to schools and job.

So you don't think the zillow house seems suburban?

No, are you crazy? It's an attached rowhome in the walkable central city neighborhood. There are smaller row-homes in Manhattan too, not to mention Brooklyn and Queens. Nobody would call West village suburban, or most parts of Brooklyn, just because the sky is not choked up by 20-story buildings in the immediate vicinity. If you say it's village-like or cute town street or whatever, I'd buy it, but suburban? Come on now, your perception of suburbia is really skewed.

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The thing is, in West village etc those smaller row homes are generally not occupied by a single family. it happens but it's an exception. usually they contain 3-4 small apartments. Simply put, square footage per person everywhere in Manhattan (high rise or low rise) is very very small, much smaller than in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, but there are pockets of "suburban" living even in Georgetown. Places where you can have a backyard and a cookout. There are adorable little streets in WestEnd that are entirely residential, yet close to retail. If she can afford Georgetown and its environs, why settle for anything else? I concede the lack of a metro stop is annoying, but lots of convenient buses-- preferrable to be above ground when you are new to the city anyway! Seems to me that Georgetown IS suburban compared to NYC.

Signed,

Happy Cap Hill Resident

NYC is not Manhattan, it's also Queens, Bronx and Brooklyn, and Staten Island (which is pretty much suburban). There are deeply suburban areas in Queens and Bronx, which would make you forget you are anywhere near the city and a lot of Brooklyn is low rise and lower density urban. I'd say most of DC (outside of National Mall) is similar to Brooklyn in terms of density and access to amenities, I would even say, DC is better, because it is better served by chain stores like Whole foods and Trader Joes, which Brooklyn lacks, and has more cultural amenities and museums and it's cleaner. The subway stations in Brooklyn are vomit-inducing.

in urban environments, most residents live in apartments. If most residents live in houses or townhmes that is not an urban environment. Such arrangements simply cannot create sufficient population density.

Most people in US cities, except Manhattan don't live in apartments, certain percentage does, but most US cities have lots of central neighborhoods with rowhome/townhome type of housing or even detached SFHs, and low-rise apartment buildings. To me if the neighborhood is central inside the city boundaries, and walkable and has PT access, and you can live there without a car, it's urban. If for you urban means having people living on top of each other stacked 1/5 mile high, then you must refer to the world's densest metropolises, which are very few outside of Asia.
Then US doesn't have any real cities other than Manhattan, because this is the case in most cities. Most people live in SFH or attached townhomes in US cities with a certain percentage of apartment buildings.

Indeed, the US does not have any real cities except for Manhattan - that was my point. There are plenty of real cities in Europe, not just Asia. A vast majority of Europeans live in apartments, and most of those are between 500 and 750 sqft in buildings 5-10 stories tall. Areas that are fairly removed from downtown are still very urban and in fact often more urban than the city centers.

Your definition of urban is simply incorrect. Centrality connects to urbanity only to the extent that increases density through tourists and people who work in the area.

[Anonymous]

So you don't think the zillow house seems suburban?

No, are you crazy? It's an attached rowhome in the walkable central city neighborhood. There are smaller row-homes in Manhattan too, not to mention Brooklyn and Queens. Nobody would call West village suburban, or most parts of Brooklyn, just because the sky is not choked up by 20-story buildings in the immediate vicinity. If you say it's village-like or cute town street or whatever, I'd buy it, but suburban? Come on now, your perception of suburbia is really skewed.

So my first zillow home post in Georgetown isn't urban, and not suburban, but instead "village-like or cute town street or whatever". Fine. "Whatever." Doesn't that sound like what the OP is looking for, and right there in Georgetown?

Or, what about the second zillow post-- http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1621-33rd-St-NW-Washington-DC-20007/430903_zpid/? Does that house not look suburban??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, but there are pockets of "suburban" living even in Georgetown. Places where you can have a backyard and a cookout. There are adorable little streets in WestEnd that are entirely residential, yet close to retail. If she can afford Georgetown and its environs, why settle for anything else? I concede the lack of a metro stop is annoying, but lots of convenient buses-- preferrable to be above ground when you are new to the city anyway! Seems to me that Georgetown IS suburban compared to NYC.

Signed,

Happy Cap Hill Resident

NYC is not Manhattan, it's also Queens, Bronx and Brooklyn, and Staten Island (which is pretty much suburban). There are deeply suburban areas in Queens and Bronx, which would make you forget you are anywhere near the city and a lot of Brooklyn is low rise and lower density urban. I'd say most of DC (outside of National Mall) is similar to Brooklyn in terms of density and access to amenities, I would even say, DC is better, because it is better served by chain stores like Whole foods and Trader Joes, which Brooklyn lacks, and has more cultural amenities and museums and it's cleaner. The subway stations in Brooklyn are vomit-inducing.

in urban environments, most residents live in apartments. If most residents live in houses or townhmes that is not an urban environment. Such arrangements simply cannot create sufficient population density.

Most people in US cities, except Manhattan don't live in apartments, certain percentage does, but most US cities have lots of central neighborhoods with rowhome/townhome type of housing or even detached SFHs, and low-rise apartment buildings. To me if the neighborhood is central inside the city boundaries, and walkable and has PT access, and you can live there without a car, it's urban. If for you urban means having people living on top of each other stacked 1/5 mile high, then you must refer to the world's densest metropolises, which are very few outside of Asia.
Then US doesn't have any real cities other than Manhattan, because this is the case in most cities. Most people live in SFH or attached townhomes in US cities with a certain percentage of apartment buildings.

Indeed, the US does not have any real cities except for Manhattan - that was my point. There are plenty of real cities in Europe, not just Asia. A vast majority of Europeans live in apartments, and most of those are between 500 and 750 sqft in buildings 5-10 stories tall. Areas that are fairly removed from downtown are still very urban and in fact often more urban than the city centers.

Your definition of urban is simply incorrect. Centrality connects to urbanity only to the extent that increases density through tourists and people who work in the area.

Actually, being a destination for jobs and tourists is an important factor defining urbanity. It adds to density and brings in businesses and street life, that otherwise would not be there just to serve residents alone. That is why there is less stuff in NWDC residential neighborhoods than in let's say Dupont, which is essentially low rise low density housing. And being a part of historic city center, being an older area, also is a part of this. Density of population is not everything.

You seem to think that urban = high rise living. This is not as simple. If this was the case then Rosslyn/Arlington or Tysons should be more urban in your eyes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

So you don't think the zillow house seems suburban?

No, are you crazy? It's an attached rowhome in the walkable central city neighborhood. There are smaller row-homes in Manhattan too, not to mention Brooklyn and Queens. Nobody would call West village suburban, or most parts of Brooklyn, just because the sky is not choked up by 20-story buildings in the immediate vicinity. If you say it's village-like or cute town street or whatever, I'd buy it, but suburban? Come on now, your perception of suburbia is really skewed.

So my first zillow home post in Georgetown isn't urban, and not suburban, but instead "village-like or cute town street or whatever". Fine. "Whatever." Doesn't that sound like what the OP is looking for, and right there in Georgetown?

Or, what about the second zillow post-- http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1621-33rd-St-NW-Washington-DC-20007/430903_zpid/? Does that house not look suburban??



I think Georgetown would perfectly fit the bill for OP, on that I don't disagree with you. But saying these homes are suburban? This is just crazy. have you been to the suburbs? Do you really think people desiring suburban lifestyle look in Georgetown to live in cramped, attached row homes with tiny patios and no garages?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, but there are pockets of "suburban" living even in Georgetown. Places where you can have a backyard and a cookout. There are adorable little streets in WestEnd that are entirely residential, yet close to retail. If she can afford Georgetown and its environs, why settle for anything else? I concede the lack of a metro stop is annoying, but lots of convenient buses-- preferrable to be above ground when you are new to the city anyway! Seems to me that Georgetown IS suburban compared to NYC.

Signed,

Happy Cap Hill Resident

NYC is not Manhattan, it's also Queens, Bronx and Brooklyn, and Staten Island (which is pretty much suburban). There are deeply suburban areas in Queens and Bronx, which would make you forget you are anywhere near the city and a lot of Brooklyn is low rise and lower density urban. I'd say most of DC (outside of National Mall) is similar to Brooklyn in terms of density and access to amenities, I would even say, DC is better, because it is better served by chain stores like Whole foods and Trader Joes, which Brooklyn lacks, and has more cultural amenities and museums and it's cleaner. The subway stations in Brooklyn are vomit-inducing.

in urban environments, most residents live in apartments. If most residents live in houses or townhmes that is not an urban environment. Such arrangements simply cannot create sufficient population density.

Most people in US cities, except Manhattan don't live in apartments, certain percentage does, but most US cities have lots of central neighborhoods with rowhome/townhome type of housing or even detached SFHs, and low-rise apartment buildings. To me if the neighborhood is central inside the city boundaries, and walkable and has PT access, and you can live there without a car, it's urban. If for you urban means having people living on top of each other stacked 1/5 mile high, then you must refer to the world's densest metropolises, which are very few outside of Asia.
Then US doesn't have any real cities other than Manhattan, because this is the case in most cities. Most people live in SFH or attached townhomes in US cities with a certain percentage of apartment buildings.

Indeed, the US does not have any real cities except for Manhattan - that was my point. There are plenty of real cities in Europe, not just Asia. A vast majority of Europeans live in apartments, and most of those are between 500 and 750 sqft in buildings 5-10 stories tall. Areas that are fairly removed from downtown are still very urban and in fact often more urban than the city centers.

Your definition of urban is simply incorrect. Centrality connects to urbanity only to the extent that increases density through tourists and people who work in the area.

Actually, being a destination for jobs and tourists is an important factor defining urbanity. It adds to density and brings in businesses and street life, that otherwise would not be there just to serve residents alone. That is why there is less stuff in NWDC residential neighborhoods than in let's say Dupont, which is essentially low rise low density housing. And being a part of historic city center, being an older area, also is a part of this. Density of population is not everything.

You seem to think that urban = high rise living. This is not as simple. If this was the case then Rosslyn/Arlington or Tysons should be more urban in your eyes.

Umm, I am the one that pointed out that attracting people and workers is a factor in urbanity. But urbanity is essentially high density within a modern city infrastructure. Density in Tyson's is very low even by DC standards. High rise living is related to density but its not the same thing. You can pack a lot people in a rowhouse as is the case in Manhattan and achieve the same effect in a seemingly townlike environment.

[Anonymous]

Transplanted New Yorker here. Don't try to recreate your Manhattan experience here. DC is a company town and the inside-the-beltway mentality is real. It's not a city: no taxis, no delis, no real intellectual/creative life (in the sense of the buzz - though there are great offerings). That said, it's a very pleasant place to live - you just need to adjust your expectations. FWIW - Alexandria is probably the closest thing to a real city here (we started off in Chevy Chase and moved to Alexandria and it's a much better fit), which includes the good and bad aspects. It has a real city life and is not overrun by chain stores and restaurants. The ethnic mix does not express itself in terms of a diverse restaurant scene, sadly, but there is a decent selection. The waterfront is wonderful, as are the farmers' markets. If you are rich, there are spectacular 18th century houses that are magnificent - really from a bygone age with walled gardens and the whole nine yards. If your budget is tighter, Del Ray is fun and has lots and lots and lots of families. You see people out and about all the time in Alexandria, which just makes it more "real" for us. Easy commute into DC and from here you're close to the Kennedy Center and the Mall. Arena Stage is not too much of a haul.

Good luck in your move and give yourself at least 18 months to settle in.

[Anonymous]

Um, it is way easier to catch a taxi in dc than NYC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Transplanted New Yorker here. Don't try to recreate your Manhattan experience here. DC is a company town and the inside-the-beltway mentality is real. It's not a city: no taxis, no delis, no real intellectual/creative life (in the sense of the buzz - though there are great offerings). That said, it's a very pleasant place to live - you just need to adjust your expectations. FWIW - Alexandria is probably the closest thing to a real city here (we started off in Chevy Chase and moved to Alexandria and it's a much better fit), which includes the good and bad aspects. It has a real city life and is not overrun by chain stores and restaurants. The ethnic mix does not express itself in terms of a diverse restaurant scene, sadly, but there is a decent selection. The waterfront is wonderful, as are the farmers' markets. If you are rich, there are spectacular 18th century houses that are magnificent - really from a bygone age with walled gardens and the whole nine yards. If your budget is tighter, Del Ray is fun and has lots and lots and lots of families. You see people out and about all the time in Alexandria, which just makes it more "real" for us. Easy commute into DC and from here you're close to the Kennedy Center and the Mall. Arena Stage is not too much of a haul.

Good luck in your move and give yourself at least 18 months to settle in.

And you might have good luck getting your kids into school in Alexandria, too, since your other thread is about private school.

SSSAS? Grace Episcopal? Alexandria Country Day School?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Transplanted New Yorker here. Don't try to recreate your Manhattan experience here. DC is a company town and the inside-the-beltway mentality is real. It's not a city: no taxis, no delis, no real intellectual/creative life (in the sense of the buzz - though there are great offerings). That said, it's a very pleasant place to live - you just need to adjust your expectations. FWIW - Alexandria is probably the closest thing to a real city here (we started off in Chevy Chase and moved to Alexandria and it's a much better fit), which includes the good and bad aspects. It has a real city life and is not overrun by chain stores and restaurants. The ethnic mix does not express itself in terms of a diverse restaurant scene, sadly, but there is a decent selection. The waterfront is wonderful, as are the farmers' markets. If you are rich, there are spectacular 18th century houses that are magnificent - really from a bygone age with walled gardens and the whole nine yards. If your budget is tighter, Del Ray is fun and has lots and lots and lots of families. You see people out and about all the time in Alexandria, which just makes it more "real" for us. Easy commute into DC and from here you're close to the Kennedy Center and the Mall. Arena Stage is not too much of a haul.

Good luck in your move and give yourself at least 18 months to settle in.

Why would OP haul her kids to private schools in NWDC and saddle her DH with long commute to enjoy what she can have in Georgetown? Alexandria and Gtown are very similar, down to the architecture and presence of the waterfront. It's funny to read the comments of people saying "oh, DC is just not going to be like NYC, but my hood is the closest thing to it". It could not be further from the truth. DC is DC, NYC is NYC, enjoy each for what it offers, find an area convenient to you to avoid going long distances for everyday things like job and schools and you already will have a better quality of life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Um, it is way easier to catch a taxi in dc than NYC.

Absolutely! People don't have to kill each other over the cab here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, but there are pockets of "suburban" living even in Georgetown. Places where you can have a backyard and a cookout. There are adorable little streets in WestEnd that are entirely residential, yet close to retail. If she can afford Georgetown and its environs, why settle for anything else? I concede the lack of a metro stop is annoying, but lots of convenient buses-- preferrable to be above ground when you are new to the city anyway! Seems to me that Georgetown IS suburban compared to NYC.

Signed,

Happy Cap Hill Resident

NYC is not Manhattan, it's also Queens, Bronx and Brooklyn, and Staten Island (which is pretty much suburban). There are deeply suburban areas in Queens and Bronx, which would make you forget you are anywhere near the city and a lot of Brooklyn is low rise and lower density urban. I'd say most of DC (outside of National Mall) is similar to Brooklyn in terms of density and access to amenities, I would even say, DC is better, because it is better served by chain stores like Whole foods and Trader Joes, which Brooklyn lacks, and has more cultural amenities and museums and it's cleaner. The subway stations in Brooklyn are vomit-inducing.

Umm there is a trader joes in Brooklyn and a whole foods too. The subways by park slope, cobble hill, Brooklyn heights are clean and fine. Don't know what you found so vomit inducing. Why are people so uninformed on this thread, yet so full of opinions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Umm there is a trader joes in Brooklyn and a whole foods too. The subways by park slope, cobble hill, Brooklyn heights are clean and fine. Don't know what you found so vomit inducing. Why are people so uninformed on this thread, yet so full of opinions?

Trader Joes, yes, Whole Foods not open YET. And it has been in talks FOREVER.

Signed, former Brooklynite who is happy in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Umm there is a trader joes in Brooklyn and a whole foods too. The subways by park slope, cobble hill, Brooklyn heights are clean and fine. Don't know what you found so vomit inducing. Why are people so uninformed on this thread, yet so full of opinions?

Trader Joes, yes, Whole Foods not open YET. And it has been in talks FOREVER.

Signed, former Brooklynite who is happy in DC.

Glad you're happy in DC. I liked Brooklyn a lot more, but maybe because I moved recently.

And Whole Foods opens THIS FALL!!! Yay!

[Anonymous]

Old Town, VA is another good option , sparsely populated city . Decent Cost of living and you can find good schools nearby..