Is there anything positive about legacy admissions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Legacies keep the alumi donation pipeline full. With no legacies donations would plummet. It is that simple.

There's no evidence of this: an alternative hypothesis is that legacy boosts lead to admissions of kids who wouldn't have been admitted were it not for the legacy boost, thereby perpetuating the supremacy of otherwise less than stellar kids. And maybe one of the kids who would have been admitted, if selection were fully merit based would be the next billionaire who could keep college coffers full.

It's a pretty straight forward assumption. Most people would donate less if their child was rejected.

The even bigger issue for schools is that alumni are walking billboards. They have a much larger impact an application rates than you realize.

None of this is measurable by a study.

Yes, so you should stop stating your opinions as if they're fact. Stating "most people would donate less if their child was rejected" does not mean that legacy admissions are the best option for universities, and the most elite universities don't need their alumni to be walking billboards for them--they're already at sub-5% admittance rates. It could be that cchools could do better if they picked the best applicant, and that best applicant was more successful and could donate more than the legacy student.

The elite schools are at sub 5% admittance rates BECAUSE of their alumni. "Best" as you say, is subjective. Best to Americans means reputation, cache, prestige, and perceived smarts, if the elite schools just focus on a cut off line based off test scores and grades, they will soon no longer be elite, because the elite of the U.S. will not want to go to these schools.

How does mit, John Hopkins, caltech, manage? Doesn’t make much sense what you are saying.

How are all the Ivies managing with legacy admissions? Doesn’t make much sense what you are saying.

See how this works? You are so exhausting, please stop making these dumb threads and then arguing ad nauseam with everyone who disagrees with the conclusion you reached at your opening post. You are convincing no one with your sarcasm and repeated straw man posts, and you aren’t getting any closer to understanding other views since you are impervious to any new information.

The key question is if legacy admissions are really necessary. Can you have a successful university without legacy admissions? The answer is yes. That’s why your previous comment didn’t make any sense.

Could Ivys operate without legacy admissions? Yes. Could other schools operate with legacy admissions? Also, yes. In the United States private institutions get to make these decisions and your repeated posts aren’t convincing anyone of anything. I understand what you are saying and I disagree with you, it sounds like the Asian model is better for you and your family.

I am glad that I convinced you that legacy admissions are not necessary.

And neither are non-legacy admissions, but I support the legacy preferences and you have only convinced me that you are crazy. Like your many other threads. Go start another controversy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Legacies keep the alumi donation pipeline full. With no legacies donations would plummet. It is that simple.

There's no evidence of this: an alternative hypothesis is that legacy boosts lead to admissions of kids who wouldn't have been admitted were it not for the legacy boost, thereby perpetuating the supremacy of otherwise less than stellar kids. And maybe one of the kids who would have been admitted, if selection were fully merit based would be the next billionaire who could keep college coffers full.

It's a pretty straight forward assumption. Most people would donate less if their child was rejected.

The even bigger issue for schools is that alumni are walking billboards. They have a much larger impact an application rates than you realize.

None of this is measurable by a study.

Yes, so you should stop stating your opinions as if they're fact. Stating "most people would donate less if their child was rejected" does not mean that legacy admissions are the best option for universities, and the most elite universities don't need their alumni to be walking billboards for them--they're already at sub-5% admittance rates. It could be that cchools could do better if they picked the best applicant, and that best applicant was more successful and could donate more than the legacy student.

The elite schools are at sub 5% admittance rates BECAUSE of their alumni. "Best" as you say, is subjective. Best to Americans means reputation, cache, prestige, and perceived smarts, if the elite schools just focus on a cut off line based off test scores and grades, they will soon no longer be elite, because the elite of the U.S. will not want to go to these schools.

How does mit, John Hopkins, caltech, manage? Doesn’t make much sense what you are saying.

How are all the Ivies managing with legacy admissions? Doesn’t make much sense what you are saying.

See how this works? You are so exhausting, please stop making these dumb threads and then arguing ad nauseam with everyone who disagrees with the conclusion you reached at your opening post. You are convincing no one with your sarcasm and repeated straw man posts, and you aren’t getting any closer to understanding other views since you are impervious to any new information.

The key question is if legacy admissions are really necessary. Can you have a successful university without legacy admissions? The answer is yes. That’s why your previous comment didn’t make any sense.

Could Ivys operate without legacy admissions? Yes. Could other schools operate with legacy admissions? Also, yes. In the United States private institutions get to make these decisions and your repeated posts aren’t convincing anyone of anything. I understand what you are saying and I disagree with you, it sounds like the Asian model is better for you and your family.

I am glad that I convinced you that legacy admissions are not necessary.

And neither are non-legacy admissions, but I support the legacy preferences and you have only convinced me that you are crazy. Like your many other threads. Go start another controversy.

Sure, and don’t send your kids for college to California, where legacy admissions are restricted. That would be too much for you to tolerate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Legacies keep the alumi donation pipeline full. With no legacies donations would plummet. It is that simple.

There's no evidence of this: an alternative hypothesis is that legacy boosts lead to admissions of kids who wouldn't have been admitted were it not for the legacy boost, thereby perpetuating the supremacy of otherwise less than stellar kids. And maybe one of the kids who would have been admitted, if selection were fully merit based would be the next billionaire who could keep college coffers full.

It's a pretty straight forward assumption. Most people would donate less if their child was rejected.

The even bigger issue for schools is that alumni are walking billboards. They have a much larger impact an application rates than you realize.

None of this is measurable by a study.

Yes, so you should stop stating your opinions as if they're fact. Stating "most people would donate less if their child was rejected" does not mean that legacy admissions are the best option for universities, and the most elite universities don't need their alumni to be walking billboards for them--they're already at sub-5% admittance rates. It could be that cchools could do better if they picked the best applicant, and that best applicant was more successful and could donate more than the legacy student.

The elite schools are at sub 5% admittance rates BECAUSE of their alumni. "Best" as you say, is subjective. Best to Americans means reputation, cache, prestige, and perceived smarts, if the elite schools just focus on a cut off line based off test scores and grades, they will soon no longer be elite, because the elite of the U.S. will not want to go to these schools.

How does mit, John Hopkins, caltech, manage? Doesn’t make much sense what you are saying.

How are all the Ivies managing with legacy admissions? Doesn’t make much sense what you are saying.

See how this works? You are so exhausting, please stop making these dumb threads and then arguing ad nauseam with everyone who disagrees with the conclusion you reached at your opening post. You are convincing no one with your sarcasm and repeated straw man posts, and you aren’t getting any closer to understanding other views since you are impervious to any new information.

The key question is if legacy admissions are really necessary. Can you have a successful university without legacy admissions? The answer is yes. That’s why your previous comment didn’t make any sense.

Could Ivys operate without legacy admissions? Yes. Could other schools operate with legacy admissions? Also, yes. In the United States private institutions get to make these decisions and your repeated posts aren’t convincing anyone of anything. I understand what you are saying and I disagree with you, it sounds like the Asian model is better for you and your family.

I am glad that I convinced you that legacy admissions are not necessary.

And neither are non-legacy admissions, but I support the legacy preferences and you have only convinced me that you are crazy. Like your many other threads. Go start another controversy.

Sure, and don’t send your kids for college to California, where legacy admissions are restricted. That would be too much for you to tolerate.

Excellent, you send your kids to California and I’ll keep mine here in the Ivies. We will both be where we belong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Legacies keep the alumi donation pipeline full. With no legacies donations would plummet. It is that simple.

There's no evidence of this: an alternative hypothesis is that legacy boosts lead to admissions of kids who wouldn't have been admitted were it not for the legacy boost, thereby perpetuating the supremacy of otherwise less than stellar kids. And maybe one of the kids who would have been admitted, if selection were fully merit based would be the next billionaire who could keep college coffers full.

It's a pretty straight forward assumption. Most people would donate less if their child was rejected.

The even bigger issue for schools is that alumni are walking billboards. They have a much larger impact an application rates than you realize.

None of this is measurable by a study.

Yes, so you should stop stating your opinions as if they're fact. Stating "most people would donate less if their child was rejected" does not mean that legacy admissions are the best option for universities, and the most elite universities don't need their alumni to be walking billboards for them--they're already at sub-5% admittance rates. It could be that cchools could do better if they picked the best applicant, and that best applicant was more successful and could donate more than the legacy student.

The elite schools are at sub 5% admittance rates BECAUSE of their alumni. "Best" as you say, is subjective. Best to Americans means reputation, cache, prestige, and perceived smarts, if the elite schools just focus on a cut off line based off test scores and grades, they will soon no longer be elite, because the elite of the U.S. will not want to go to these schools.

How does mit, John Hopkins, caltech, manage? Doesn’t make much sense what you are saying.

How are all the Ivies managing with legacy admissions? Doesn’t make much sense what you are saying.

See how this works? You are so exhausting, please stop making these dumb threads and then arguing ad nauseam with everyone who disagrees with the conclusion you reached at your opening post. You are convincing no one with your sarcasm and repeated straw man posts, and you aren’t getting any closer to understanding other views since you are impervious to any new information.

The key question is if legacy admissions are really necessary. Can you have a successful university without legacy admissions? The answer is yes. That’s why your previous comment didn’t make any sense.

Could Ivys operate without legacy admissions? Yes. Could other schools operate with legacy admissions? Also, yes. In the United States private institutions get to make these decisions and your repeated posts aren’t convincing anyone of anything. I understand what you are saying and I disagree with you, it sounds like the Asian model is better for you and your family.

I am glad that I convinced you that legacy admissions are not necessary.

And neither are non-legacy admissions, but I support the legacy preferences and you have only convinced me that you are crazy. Like your many other threads. Go start another controversy.

Sure, and don’t send your kids for college to California, where legacy admissions are restricted. That would be too much for you to tolerate.

Excellent, you send your kids to California and I’ll keep mine here in the Ivies. We will both be where we belong.

Sure. Luckily there are non-legacy admissions all around the country to choose from. And judging by your post not sure you belong to any college (with or without legacy admissions).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Legacies keep the alumi donation pipeline full. With no legacies donations would plummet. It is that simple.

There's no evidence of this: an alternative hypothesis is that legacy boosts lead to admissions of kids who wouldn't have been admitted were it not for the legacy boost, thereby perpetuating the supremacy of otherwise less than stellar kids. And maybe one of the kids who would have been admitted, if selection were fully merit based would be the next billionaire who could keep college coffers full.

It's a pretty straight forward assumption. Most people would donate less if their child was rejected.

The even bigger issue for schools is that alumni are walking billboards. They have a much larger impact an application rates than you realize.

None of this is measurable by a study.

Yes, so you should stop stating your opinions as if they're fact. Stating "most people would donate less if their child was rejected" does not mean that legacy admissions are the best option for universities, and the most elite universities don't need their alumni to be walking billboards for them--they're already at sub-5% admittance rates. It could be that cchools could do better if they picked the best applicant, and that best applicant was more successful and could donate more than the legacy student.

The elite schools are at sub 5% admittance rates BECAUSE of their alumni. "Best" as you say, is subjective. Best to Americans means reputation, cache, prestige, and perceived smarts, if the elite schools just focus on a cut off line based off test scores and grades, they will soon no longer be elite, because the elite of the U.S. will not want to go to these schools.

How does mit, John Hopkins, caltech, manage? Doesn’t make much sense what you are saying.

How are all the Ivies managing with legacy admissions? Doesn’t make much sense what you are saying.

See how this works? You are so exhausting, please stop making these dumb threads and then arguing ad nauseam with everyone who disagrees with the conclusion you reached at your opening post. You are convincing no one with your sarcasm and repeated straw man posts, and you aren’t getting any closer to understanding other views since you are impervious to any new information.

The key question is if legacy admissions are really necessary. Can you have a successful university without legacy admissions? The answer is yes. That’s why your previous comment didn’t make any sense.

Could Ivys operate without legacy admissions? Yes. Could other schools operate with legacy admissions? Also, yes. In the United States private institutions get to make these decisions and your repeated posts aren’t convincing anyone of anything. I understand what you are saying and I disagree with you, it sounds like the Asian model is better for you and your family.

I am glad that I convinced you that legacy admissions are not necessary.

And neither are non-legacy admissions, but I support the legacy preferences and you have only convinced me that you are crazy. Like your many other threads. Go start another controversy.

Sure, and don’t send your kids for college to California, where legacy admissions are restricted. That would be too much for you to tolerate.

Excellent, you send your kids to California and I’ll keep mine here in the Ivies. We will both be where we belong.

Sure. Luckily there are non-legacy admissions all around the country to choose from. And judging by your post not sure you belong to any college (with or without legacy admissions).

I have 2 Ivy degrees, my kids are on track to do the same. Enjoy UCLA and creating lots of troll posts, can’t wait for your next enticing question!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Legacies keep the alumi donation pipeline full. With no legacies donations would plummet. It is that simple.

There's no evidence of this: an alternative hypothesis is that legacy boosts lead to admissions of kids who wouldn't have been admitted were it not for the legacy boost, thereby perpetuating the supremacy of otherwise less than stellar kids. And maybe one of the kids who would have been admitted, if selection were fully merit based would be the next billionaire who could keep college coffers full.

It's a pretty straight forward assumption. Most people would donate less if their child was rejected.

The even bigger issue for schools is that alumni are walking billboards. They have a much larger impact an application rates than you realize.

None of this is measurable by a study.

Yes, so you should stop stating your opinions as if they're fact. Stating "most people would donate less if their child was rejected" does not mean that legacy admissions are the best option for universities, and the most elite universities don't need their alumni to be walking billboards for them--they're already at sub-5% admittance rates. It could be that cchools could do better if they picked the best applicant, and that best applicant was more successful and could donate more than the legacy student.

The elite schools are at sub 5% admittance rates BECAUSE of their alumni. "Best" as you say, is subjective. Best to Americans means reputation, cache, prestige, and perceived smarts, if the elite schools just focus on a cut off line based off test scores and grades, they will soon no longer be elite, because the elite of the U.S. will not want to go to these schools.

How does mit, John Hopkins, caltech, manage? Doesn’t make much sense what you are saying.

How are all the Ivies managing with legacy admissions? Doesn’t make much sense what you are saying.

See how this works? You are so exhausting, please stop making these dumb threads and then arguing ad nauseam with everyone who disagrees with the conclusion you reached at your opening post. You are convincing no one with your sarcasm and repeated straw man posts, and you aren’t getting any closer to understanding other views since you are impervious to any new information.

The key question is if legacy admissions are really necessary. Can you have a successful university without legacy admissions? The answer is yes. That’s why your previous comment didn’t make any sense.

Could Ivys operate without legacy admissions? Yes. Could other schools operate with legacy admissions? Also, yes. In the United States private institutions get to make these decisions and your repeated posts aren’t convincing anyone of anything. I understand what you are saying and I disagree with you, it sounds like the Asian model is better for you and your family.

I am glad that I convinced you that legacy admissions are not necessary.

And neither are non-legacy admissions, but I support the legacy preferences and you have only convinced me that you are crazy. Like your many other threads. Go start another controversy.

Sure, and don’t send your kids for college to California, where legacy admissions are restricted. That would be too much for you to tolerate.

Excellent, you send your kids to California and I’ll keep mine here in the Ivies. We will both be where we belong.

Sure. Luckily there are non-legacy admissions all around the country to choose from. And judging by your post not sure you belong to any college (with or without legacy admissions).

I have 2 Ivy degrees, my kids are on track to do the same. Enjoy UCLA and creating lots of troll posts, can’t wait for your next enticing question!

I can see that all that bad press saying that Harvard is experiencing grade inflation might be true. In any case I am sure that your kids deserve the legacy admission just based on their last names. Enjoy while it lasts!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If legacy admissions went away, do you get how little would change for how few people?

It is such a weird issue for people to get exercized about.

That reinforces my point, that it could be easily removed without much drama for most people. Elite families would still go to good colleges and as a whole the process would be more fair and competitive. As far as I know this is good for the society as a whole.

No, it is no help for society to take it away.

What is does good for is building community at an institution. One of my children would love to go to the university I went to, and I would love for them to do that. It would be a great thing to share, just like I am sure you would love to share things in your life with your children.

No doubt my child would like and do fine at a peer university. But so would the non-legacy child. So send your kid to the other school, and let my highly qualified kid go to school I went to.

More importantly, these are private institutions. Why do you feel entitled to tell them how to operate?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If legacy admissions went away, do you get how little would change for how few people?

It is such a weird issue for people to get exercized about.

That reinforces my point, that it could be easily removed without much drama for most people. Elite families would still go to good colleges and as a whole the process would be more fair and competitive. As far as I know this is good for the society as a whole.

No, it is no help for society to take it away.

What is does good for is building community at an institution. One of my children would love to go to the university I went to, and I would love for them to do that. It would be a great thing to share, just like I am sure you would love to share things in your life with your children.

No doubt my child would like and do fine at a peer university. But so would the non-legacy child. So send your kid to the other school, and let my highly qualified kid go to school I went to.

More importantly, these are private institutions. Why do you feel entitled to tell them how to operate?

I don’t feel entitled. This is something that can be challenged in courts like in any normal democracy :

https://www.wsj.com/us-news/education/legacy-college-admissions-preferences-backlash-772c88be?gaa_at=eafs&gaa_n=AWEtsqe_4iwmiJOOG_odfOs3K1um7dmGK9Tl7KBrRhBDZvUbSMfmn82CvrN8&gaa_ts=6900e580&gaa_sig=GiW532c1Bp_SgLRAoI0ULOEdDiRjwdRWNCbWUvl-dVEOKARyytoLKuiQYGVk8o5R6-OhdjiXi-5SQKROgHsmuQ%3D%3D

And by the way has already been done in California. If you don’t like this you can send your kids to college in other countries, no problem at all.

[Anonymous]

Are non-legacies a protected class under the Fourteenth Amendment?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are non-legacies a protected class under the Fourteenth Amendment?

No, but legacy families behave like they are.

[Anonymous]

Whether or not they behave like they are, how is that relevant to the litigation that you linked?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whether or not they behave like they are, how is that relevant to the litigation that you linked?

Read it and then I can respond.

[Anonymous]

I'll give you a hint...how legacy families behave has no legal relevance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Legacies keep the alumi donation pipeline full. With no legacies donations would plummet. It is that simple.

There's no evidence of this: an alternative hypothesis is that legacy boosts lead to admissions of kids who wouldn't have been admitted were it not for the legacy boost, thereby perpetuating the supremacy of otherwise less than stellar kids. And maybe one of the kids who would have been admitted, if selection were fully merit based would be the next billionaire who could keep college coffers full.

It's a pretty straight forward assumption. Most people would donate less if their child was rejected.

The even bigger issue for schools is that alumni are walking billboards. They have a much larger impact an application rates than you realize.

None of this is measurable by a study.

Yes, so you should stop stating your opinions as if they're fact. Stating "most people would donate less if their child was rejected" does not mean that legacy admissions are the best option for universities, and the most elite universities don't need their alumni to be walking billboards for them--they're already at sub-5% admittance rates. It could be that cchools could do better if they picked the best applicant, and that best applicant was more successful and could donate more than the legacy student.

The elite schools are at sub 5% admittance rates BECAUSE of their alumni. "Best" as you say, is subjective. Best to Americans means reputation, cache, prestige, and perceived smarts, if the elite schools just focus on a cut off line based off test scores and grades, they will soon no longer be elite, because the elite of the U.S. will not want to go to these schools.

That’s your opinion, not a fact. As mentioned earlier in this thread, plenty of countries (ex: England, France, India, Korea, China) have elite universities with admissions that are entirely merit based that are perceived as elite.

I would love to see the stats on US citizen admissions to the elite universities in those countries. They also have very different funding mechanisms.

The educational environment for kids is incredibly miserable in Asia. I see this first-hand as I live in Singapore. It is exhausting to witness the intensity with which families are pursuing US university options. The kids have after school and Saturday tuition all designed to optimize test scores and grades. And yes, all of the selection tests are trainable with enough effort. They no longer measure anything other than test prep.

They’ve even managed to add in certifications to after school art, theater, and music programs. The credentialism is out of control.

I'm sure you can find those stats using a handy tool that "the kids" call Google. You just need to look at numbers and read more rather than state opinions without evidence. Perhaps because you live in Singapore, you have not realized that plenty of American kids are also in Saturday and/or Sunday academic enrichment classes and activities. It's competitive here too. But your anecdote is not data anyway--plenty of desirable schools (ex: Oxford and Cambridge) do not have legacy admissions despite being in a country with its own aristocracy.

[Anonymous]

So far the only positive for legacy admissions is potentially more funding for elite colleges, but not sure there is anything else that is good for the society as a whole.