County-wide magnet/IB/GE/Humanity programs will become regional programs if the secondary program plan is passed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does the new regional program proposal mean that the DCC is going away? Sorry if this question has been asked and answered already.

If the proposal ends up being what happens, yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ones like Blair should be regional as the W schools have far more classes than down county.

Even the W schools you mention do not come close to Blair in terms of course offerings. The program has courses you would not find in any other program, probably even nationwide. The courses, especially the electives, are not just more advanced, but very unique and niche.

That's what makes it so special. Turning it into 6 regional programs would completely destroy it.

But very few kids can access that program. Too many qualified kids for too few spots. And it implies an hour long bus ride for many. Count me in for team "watering down" into country wide magnet-then maybe at least my kid would get some advanced programming rather than elite programming for a precious few. Your Young Sheldon can take college classes if they find MCPS mini-magnets that boring.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:NP. It means they will be available only to kids zoned for a school in the same region as the program.

The reason why the current programs are so successful is that MCPS can concentrate resources. If this is expanded, it will dilute everything, and the quality of all the programs would go down drastically. You would not be able to find enough teachers capable of teaching some of these advanced courses.

In addition, I highly doubt all these programs would even be nearly of the same quality if equity is the goal. Look at the current regional IB programs, and compare them to RM.

Every time this comes up I feel the need to remind folks that the regional IB magnets have only been in existence long enough to have ONE graduating class, and continue to lose the strongest students to RMIB. Assuming that outcomes wouldn't improve with this change is not correct.

I would actually agree with you on this. But, this is not the main reason.

The students are a huge factor in determining if the program is successful.

https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiNWY4ODhiMmUtNTcwNi00NjEwLTgxZjQtMDQ5MzA1NDQ4MDI3IiwidCI6ImRkZjc1NWU5LWJjZDYtNGE1ZS1hNDcyLTdjMzc4YTc4YzZjNyIsImMiOjF9

If you look at the testing & graduation section for Kennedy, RM, and Whitman, they are not even close to comparable. It is not feasible to offer many of the courses because there are not enough students who are able to fill up the classes. And thus, those at the very top of some regional programs will not have the same opportunity as others.

A strong student body also helps the students. Students who are strong and passionate about a subject will help push each other up so everyone improves. This is not possible with so many regional programs, as the data show.

Additionally, if you create so many programs, you will require so many more teachers. The teachers at the countywides are incredibly skilled, specialized, and unique. They are some of the very best educators in the nation. I doubt you would find enough to equitably staff all the programs.

+1 splitting the 100 or RMIB students across the regions is not going to provide the economies of scale for each of those regional programs to provide the additional courses that RMIB has.

Kennedy has had 4 years to to develop its IB program, yet they still don't have magnet level classes starting in 9th grade from what I saw of the course offerings at Kennedy. RMIB has magnet level classes starting in the 9th grade.

I have a hard time believing that in a county as huge and educated as MoCo, that there are only 100 students per year who are snowflake smart enough to handle a rigorous IB curriculum. I think the real constraint is qualified teachers.

I agree with you. So Blair should become TJ and offer 500 slots per year. But not dividing these kids to 6 regions.

+1 mostly. More students definitely could benefit from these programs. However, a major part of why the magnets are so successful is because of their small and concentrated size. But, if MCPS wants to provide equitable opportunities for more students, this would a step in the right direction.

TJ is more successful. It’s ok to expand the Blair program and not lose the advantage.

LOL
Blair Magnet is way more successful than TJ

Then we should keep it. Why destroy it ? There are ways to keep it while expanding access

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a parent or maybe a handful of parents on this thread who want you to believe that the Blair magnet is top to bottom geniuses doing "post college" work.

That's not true. Even within the magnet, only about 1 in 5 meet that definition, if that.

By no definition of "public education" should we be making policy based solely on the needs of the top 20% of the top 1%.

+1

Top 20% of top 1% shouln't stop thousands of students attending regional magnet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a parent or maybe a handful of parents on this thread who want you to believe that the Blair magnet is top to bottom geniuses doing "post college" work.

That's not true. Even within the magnet, only about 1 in 5 meet that definition, if that.

By no definition of "public education" should we be making policy based solely on the needs of the top 20% of the top 1%.

+1

Top 20% of top 1% shouln't stop thousands of students attending regional magnet.

+2 The way MCPS selects kids for the magnets is problematic in the first place. Restricting enrichment activity to so few just compounds the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

I think most magnet students are from outside the region.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a parent or maybe a handful of parents on this thread who want you to believe that the Blair magnet is top to bottom geniuses doing "post college" work.

That's not true. Even within the magnet, only about 1 in 5 meet that definition, if that.

By no definition of "public education" should we be making policy based solely on the needs of the top 20% of the top 1%.

+1

Top 20% of top 1% shouln't stop thousands of students attending regional magnet.

+2 The way MCPS selects kids for the magnets is problematic in the first place. Restricting enrichment activity to so few just compounds the problem.

We should be expanding access and preserving successful programs. This shouldn’t be an either/or situation. Shame on MCPS on only focusing on one type equity but not the other types. Equity doesn’t mean dismantling what works; it means making sure more students have the opportunity to benefit from it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

If majority of kids are coming from some specific region then add extra 20% seats for out of region to keep Blair/RM lkke magnet programs. No need to host it at Blair or RM. Also, 25 seats are currently reserved for Blair and RM HS zoned kids to attend those magnets so anyone making a point about all those kids being geniuses are just wrong. I happen ot know few of them and I wouldn't count them as geniuses.

That's where equal oppurtunity comes in picture.

4-5 schools together without any reservation, plain based on criterion --- That's the way to go. There will be always 50-100 bright kids( 95 percentile) in each region. If soem region has way more students in top 5 percentile then just have that region as county wide seats for extra 25 kids with some extra counrses to replicate RM/Balir program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a parent or maybe a handful of parents on this thread who want you to believe that the Blair magnet is top to bottom geniuses doing "post college" work.

That's not true. Even within the magnet, only about 1 in 5 meet that definition, if that.

By no definition of "public education" should we be making policy based solely on the needs of the top 20% of the top 1%.

+1

Top 20% of top 1% shouln't stop thousands of students attending regional magnet.

+2 The way MCPS selects kids for the magnets is problematic in the first place. Restricting enrichment activity to so few just compounds the problem.

Agree here. DD in 99 percentile. She never got to attend any magnet in ES or Middle school. I will be delighted if she can at least attend a regional magnet in HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ones like Blair should be regional as the W schools have far more classes than down county.

Even the W schools you mention do not come close to Blair in terms of course offerings. The program has courses you would not find in any other program, probably even nationwide. The courses, especially the electives, are not just more advanced, but very unique and niche.

That's what makes it so special. Turning it into 6 regional programs would completely destroy it.

That's nonsense. MCPS is comparable in size to FCPS and TJ has close to 600 students per grade. There's no reason MCPS couldn't fill 6 regional mangets with 100 students each.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a parent or maybe a handful of parents on this thread who want you to believe that the Blair magnet is top to bottom geniuses doing "post college" work.

That's not true. Even within the magnet, only about 1 in 5 meet that definition, if that.

By no definition of "public education" should we be making policy based solely on the needs of the top 20% of the top 1%.

+1

Top 20% of top 1% shouln't stop thousands of students attending regional magnet.

+2 The way MCPS selects kids for the magnets is problematic in the first place. Restricting enrichment activity to so few just compounds the problem.

We should be expanding access and preserving successful programs. This shouldn’t be an either/or situation. Shame on MCPS on only focusing on one type equity but not the other types. Equity doesn’t mean dismantling what works; it means making sure more students have the opportunity to benefit from it.

I would agree is the resources were available. In this case it sounds like there isn’t a good enough teacher for certain classes in the magnet, meaning there wouldn’t be six.

But also it sounds like what the magnet wants in a teacher is actually someone with a PhD in some STEM or math field. I’m not sure if you are going to find a lot of those willing to teach high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay here's a compromise idea. What about getting on board with the regional plan, but also advocating for a small set-aside of a certain number of seats per year (25? 40? not sure the number needed) at a couple of the key regional magnets like Blair and RMIB for out-of-bounds kids who have extremely high qualifications/are profoundly gifted?

That way more kids could get into magnets overall and have them closer to their homes, the very brightest kids would still have a cohort of similar kids concentrated in one place to be able to take very high level courses (probably not 100% of the ones they get now, but many of them), and rather than having to sell MCPS on the extra cost of keeping all the countywide programs *and* adding 6 new regional programs, a few schools would essentially have a hybrid regional/countywide program which would make it more affordable.

This seems like the most win-win solution and also the most likely to actually succeed. MCPS gets its shift to a regional model, Blair and RMIB get to keep most of what keeps them special while becoming regional/countywide hybrids, the tiny sliver of kids who really need to be centralized countywide still can be, and the supporters of the regional model and of the flagship countywide programs can work together rather than fight each other.

We need to first understand the current student makeup of the Blair Magnet program. If 80% of the students are currently from outside the region, shifting that to just 20% won’t be enough to preserve the program.

If only a few dozen kids per year at Blair are the genius kids taking the really high-level courses and winning the big competitions anyway, then you only need a few dozen countywide seats to keep them concentrated at Blair. The other 75%ish of the spots can be filled just fine by more "ordinary" gifted kids in the region, and the kids who would have been at Blair but not taken the top-level classes will do just fine at their regional magnets instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks need to get really clear and explicit on what exactly you are worried about losing by these magnets becoming regional. What are the specific classes that there wouldn't be enough kids to support regional programs? Is it just a few high level math and science classes for a couple dozen seniors, or is there anything else?

(If your complaint is just that they shouldn't change because you don't want your kid in class with a 95th percentile kid, you're not gonna get any sympathy or success. You need to spell out "kids will lose access to X and Y.")

DD went to Blair Magnet.

1. Advanced core math courses: functions, analysis 1 (calculus), analysis 2 (multivariable calculus, differential equations). They are incredibly fast-paced and rigorous. You would not be able to implement this with a regional program due to: lack of skilled teachers, inequitable implementation, lack of qualified students in some areas.
2. Unique electives: quantum mechanics, AI, neuroscience, biochemistry, math physics, genetic analysis.... MCPS would not be able to implement this into a regional model. They would all disappear or be a shell of what they used to be.
3. Student body. The Blair magnet takes the top from the county and are all incredibly talented. They are all very passionate in STEM, and their community helps to motivate everyone. They start clubs, do competitions together, and organize STEM activities together. They have an incredibly strong club culture.
4. Competitions: I mentioned that Blair takes the strongest from the county. I heard they recently won the National Science Bowl. They have a quizbowl team, science olympiad team, robotics team, and many more. They compete nationally. Blair offers them a very unique, once in a lifetime opportunity. Not possible if everything is divided.
5. Activities: Blair magnet students organize unique activities all the time. Their math tournament for middle students get 300+ participants each year and is highly successful. Their clubs do community outreach and volunteer. They organize plenty of other opportunities for other students all the time. The scale of these activities is incredibly unique to the magnet.
6. Research: The magnet has a senior research opportunity. The summer before senior year, each student interns in a lab at a university. They are able to write papers and present them to the entire program. Many are recognized for national awards.

I could go on and on. Ideally, I think many students could benefit from this program. But, expansion would mean a lack of resources and would bring everything down equally. Many of the very top students also need a challenge outside of their regular school curriculum, and this program provides exactly that.

But why should MCPS/taxpayers concentrate so many resources for such a small number of kids? It really does not make sense.

Good point! Actually, that reminds me. Who cares about the remeidal kids? Let them deal with it. After all, "Why should MCPS/taxpayers concentrate so many resources for such a small number of kids?"
(Sarcasm, obviously)