Almost a quarter of seniors don't have enough SSL to graduate at our HS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD finished hers in 7th grade because she wanted the MS award. Then she wanted the HS award so she started racking up hours whenever she could.

DS entered MCPS in 2020 and still managed to finish his 75 by 2022 despite the pandemic.

Middle class seniors in good health have zero excuse.

So just let the lower class (aka poor) seniors fail?

Sure. Teach them how the real world works. Unfair rules that disrespect your humanity.

Your nanny making soup that your mom paid for, while you watch == SSL

You making soup to feed your little sister so Mom can work longer hours = not SSL.

The law, in its majestic quality, forbids the rich and poor alike from sleeping under bridges.

This. No one is against true community service, but this requirement is poorly implemented and harms the most vulnerable students who are sometimes working real jobs that pay or caring for siblings and elderly relatives to keep their families afloat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s like 14 people who work in the SSL office. I think volunteering and service is important, but SSL hours misses the mark a lot of the time. Students earn 45 hours for just taking required classes. I’d be ok with eliminating the requirement and re-assigning the SSL office.

Agreed. ELD (ESOL) students have historically had a difficult time with this requirement. Why make this a graduation requirement? Reassign SSL staff to teach.

Do you have evidence to back that up, or are you making it up?

In my experience, teaching in a different district with a similar requirement, low income kids are comfortable with public transportation, and they are more likely to live in areas that aren't car dependent. MCPS offers opportunities at school, and at organizations in all neighborhoods, like public elementary schools, libraries, community based organizations, churches that operate food pantries etc . . . If anything, they are more opportunities in lower income neighborhoods, because those neighborhoods are denser housing.

The argument that a kid can't do SSL hours without someone driving applies to affluent kids who are overscheduled and picky about what they do, and whose parents don't expect them to walk or take public transportation. A kid who is willing to do a variety of work, and can get places by themself, can find opportunities.

I teach MS ELD students. We gave SSL hours for classwork projects. From the MCPS website:

In Montgomery County Public Schools (MCPS), all students, including ELD (English Language Learner) students, are required to complete 75 Student Service Learning (SSL) hours to graduate from high school; these hours can be earned through community service activities with approved organizations, and ELD students can potentially earn a portion of these hours through specific projects embedded within their English for English Learners curriculum, particularly in grades 6, 7, and 8.

There are also hours built into Outdoor Ed, Social Studies, and Science in MS. Students will not complete these activities although they are during school hours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s like 14 people who work in the SSL office. I think volunteering and service is important, but SSL hours misses the mark a lot of the time. Students earn 45 hours for just taking required classes. I’d be ok with eliminating the requirement and re-assigning the SSL office.

Agreed. ELD (ESOL) students have historically had a difficult time with this requirement. Why make this a graduation requirement? Reassign SSL staff to teach.

Do you have evidence to back that up, or are you making it up?

In my experience, teaching in a different district with a similar requirement, low income kids are comfortable with public transportation, and they are more likely to live in areas that aren't car dependent. MCPS offers opportunities at school, and at organizations in all neighborhoods, like public elementary schools, libraries, community based organizations, churches that operate food pantries etc . . . If anything, they are more opportunities in lower income neighborhoods, because those neighborhoods are denser housing.

The argument that a kid can't do SSL hours without someone driving applies to affluent kids who are overscheduled and picky about what they do, and whose parents don't expect them to walk or take public transportation. A kid who is willing to do a variety of work, and can get places by themself, can find opportunities.

My kids have been taking public buses since they were 11. They are very skilled at the system. There are very few opportunities that are accessible by public transportation, which kids can do without a parent accompanying them, and which give you more than an hour or two at a time. For instance, my kid did one where she went to a community center in Gaithersburg to help the elderly with their phones….it was 90 minutes of service for which I had to drive her about 40 minutes each way. There was no way to get there by bus in less than about 3 hours with multiple transfers. I really do read these emails every week and there are very few options that don’t require a parent to attend, drive or shell out money (eg buy supplies for the kid to make something at home). One year we went to the County MLK day of service and it was soooooo overcrowded — a lot of the events ran out of supplies before the kids even got a chance to do them. Ans that required an adult (I brought 6 kids as a favor to other parents). And even then was booked up very early so you had to sign up right away.

The idea that there are thousands and thousands of hours of meaningful service in the county that these kids can do on their own is just not realistic. I think. In large party because no one really wants unsupervised kids — unless it is part of a scouting program or a camp where you have parental permissions, waivers and insurance.

+1. This. People keep posting on this thread about how easy it is to get hours and how parents didn’t need to get involved in driving them around at all, but few are posting any details about what these unicorn opportunities are. My takeaway from this thread is that you need to be a parent who paid $$$ for a camp for years that then contracts your kid as free labor and gives them SSl hours once they’re 13+. That doesn’t seem particularly meaningful to me.

Local food pantry, 2 hrs at a time in Silver Spring. May not seem meaningful to you and is certainly not glamorous. You don't need to be rich.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you shovel snow in your neighborhood and pick up litter and tutor your classmates for 7 years, you'll easily rack up.... 0 hours because it's not for an approved nonprofit organization.

Yep, and lots of those 'non-profits' are actually making a profit.

So you're against money?

I'm against companies using our students as free labor to turn a profit that benefits certain individuals financially. But you knew that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s like 14 people who work in the SSL office. I think volunteering and service is important, but SSL hours misses the mark a lot of the time. Students earn 45 hours for just taking required classes. I’d be ok with eliminating the requirement and re-assigning the SSL office.

Agreed. ELD (ESOL) students have historically had a difficult time with this requirement. Why make this a graduation requirement? Reassign SSL staff to teach.

Do you have evidence to back that up, or are you making it up?

In my experience, teaching in a different district with a similar requirement, low income kids are comfortable with public transportation, and they are more likely to live in areas that aren't car dependent. MCPS offers opportunities at school, and at organizations in all neighborhoods, like public elementary schools, libraries, community based organizations, churches that operate food pantries etc . . . If anything, they are more opportunities in lower income neighborhoods, because those neighborhoods are denser housing.

The argument that a kid can't do SSL hours without someone driving applies to affluent kids who are overscheduled and picky about what they do, and whose parents don't expect them to walk or take public transportation. A kid who is willing to do a variety of work, and can get places by themself, can find opportunities.

My kids have been taking public buses since they were 11. They are very skilled at the system. There are very few opportunities that are accessible by public transportation, which kids can do without a parent accompanying them, and which give you more than an hour or two at a time. For instance, my kid did one where she went to a community center in Gaithersburg to help the elderly with their phones….it was 90 minutes of service for which I had to drive her about 40 minutes each way. There was no way to get there by bus in less than about 3 hours with multiple transfers. I really do read these emails every week and there are very few options that don’t require a parent to attend, drive or shell out money (eg buy supplies for the kid to make something at home). One year we went to the County MLK day of service and it was soooooo overcrowded — a lot of the events ran out of supplies before the kids even got a chance to do them. Ans that required an adult (I brought 6 kids as a favor to other parents). And even then was booked up very early so you had to sign up right away.

The idea that there are thousands and thousands of hours of meaningful service in the county that these kids can do on their own is just not realistic. I think. In large party because no one really wants unsupervised kids — unless it is part of a scouting program or a camp where you have parental permissions, waivers and insurance.

+1. This. People keep posting on this thread about how easy it is to get hours and how parents didn’t need to get involved in driving them around at all, but few are posting any details about what these unicorn opportunities are. My takeaway from this thread is that you need to be a parent who paid $$$ for a camp for years that then contracts your kid as free labor and gives them SSl hours once they’re 13+. That doesn’t seem particularly meaningful to me.

Local food pantry, 2 hrs at a time in Silver Spring. May not seem meaningful to you and is certainly not glamorous. You don't need to be rich.

It is meaningful -but it’s not what SSL is like for most kids. You may not need to be rich but in most cases you need a parent willing to drive you to volunteer. Food pantries aren’t typically in prime locations close to public transport.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SSL is ridiculous. It’s virtue signaling. Kids should get paid for working.

They are paid with a diploma. Are you okay?

Kids should get paid for working like everyone else. They don’t get “paid” with a diploma.

I have a job I get paid for. I also am a girl scout leader (volunteer) and church usher (also volunteer).

Who cares? If you want to volunteer then volunteer. Not everyone wants ,to give away their time for free. Girl Scouts sucks anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s like 14 people who work in the SSL office. I think volunteering and service is important, but SSL hours misses the mark a lot of the time. Students earn 45 hours for just taking required classes. I’d be ok with eliminating the requirement and re-assigning the SSL office.

I'd be more inclined to keep the requirement if service was actually community service. Instead, though, students can get hours automatically in class or (looking at a recent email) attending a zoom where they "have the opportunity to engage in a youth town hall with Montgomery County councilmembers".

Exactly! Actual volunteer service. Not this bs.

It’s not volunteer service if it’s mandatory.

Child Labor Loophole.

Honestly, does this requirement exist to teach kids to accept exploitation? Maybe to acclimate them to no pay for their labor so that someday they’ll be thrilled with minimum wage?

AYFKM? "exploitation"? These are opt-in activities. Nobody's being "exploited". Good lord...

Y'all raising a bunch of gold-digging moneygrubbers thinking their presence is a present or some mess. Service learning exists to supplement your parenting deficiencies and teach kids that being of use to their community is part of being in a community. You don't get paid for every little thing you do, nor should you, nor should you expect to. Damn.

And it's STUPID easy to collect these things. My HS kid has over 400. My 7th grader has over 200. They are not particularly engaged or generous people, and I've never once had to suggest they volunteer. They found activities they were interested in, and found ways to be of use at the activities they enjoyed. Students get about half of the 75 hour requirement just for in-school activities, probably because you wanky whiners whinged enough that the school started subsidizing your children's community service. If your kid can't figure out how to give 35ish hours of service between 6th and 12th grade, well, congratulations on the leech you raised.

It's just over an hour every month between 6th and 12th grade. If you're not raising your kids to be at least that generous, that's your L as a parent.

I hope you don’t talk the way you write. 🤮

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s like 14 people who work in the SSL office. I think volunteering and service is important, but SSL hours misses the mark a lot of the time. Students earn 45 hours for just taking required classes. I’d be ok with eliminating the requirement and re-assigning the SSL office.

Agreed. ELD (ESOL) students have historically had a difficult time with this requirement. Why make this a graduation requirement? Reassign SSL staff to teach.

Do you have evidence to back that up, or are you making it up?

In my experience, teaching in a different district with a similar requirement, low income kids are comfortable with public transportation, and they are more likely to live in areas that aren't car dependent. MCPS offers opportunities at school, and at organizations in all neighborhoods, like public elementary schools, libraries, community based organizations, churches that operate food pantries etc . . . If anything, they are more opportunities in lower income neighborhoods, because those neighborhoods are denser housing.

The argument that a kid can't do SSL hours without someone driving applies to affluent kids who are overscheduled and picky about what they do, and whose parents don't expect them to walk or take public transportation. A kid who is willing to do a variety of work, and can get places by themself, can find opportunities.

My kids have been taking public buses since they were 11. They are very skilled at the system. There are very few opportunities that are accessible by public transportation, which kids can do without a parent accompanying them, and which give you more than an hour or two at a time. For instance, my kid did one where she went to a community center in Gaithersburg to help the elderly with their phones….it was 90 minutes of service for which I had to drive her about 40 minutes each way. There was no way to get there by bus in less than about 3 hours with multiple transfers. I really do read these emails every week and there are very few options that don’t require a parent to attend, drive or shell out money (eg buy supplies for the kid to make something at home). One year we went to the County MLK day of service and it was soooooo overcrowded — a lot of the events ran out of supplies before the kids even got a chance to do them. Ans that required an adult (I brought 6 kids as a favor to other parents). And even then was booked up very early so you had to sign up right away.

The idea that there are thousands and thousands of hours of meaningful service in the county that these kids can do on their own is just not realistic. I think. In large party because no one really wants unsupervised kids — unless it is part of a scouting program or a camp where you have parental permissions, waivers and insurance.

+1. This. People keep posting on this thread about how easy it is to get hours and how parents didn’t need to get involved in driving them around at all, but few are posting any details about what these unicorn opportunities are. My takeaway from this thread is that you need to be a parent who paid $$$ for a camp for years that then contracts your kid as free labor and gives them SSl hours once they’re 13+. That doesn’t seem particularly meaningful to me.

Local food pantry, 2 hrs at a time in Silver Spring. May not seem meaningful to you and is certainly not glamorous. You don't need to be rich.

You do need to have a parent to take you. I also looked into this for my kid and there’s nothing within a 30 minute drive or a single bus ride from our house, and the spots I did see were filled almost as soon as they became available (or were during school hours).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD finished hers in 7th grade because she wanted the MS award. Then she wanted the HS award so she started racking up hours whenever she could.

DS entered MCPS in 2020 and still managed to finish his 75 by 2022 despite the pandemic.

Middle class seniors in good health have zero excuse.

So just let the lower class (aka poor) seniors fail?

Sure. Teach them how the real world works. Unfair rules that disrespect your humanity.

Your nanny making soup that your mom paid for, while you watch == SSL

You making soup to feed your little sister so Mom can work longer hours = not SSL.

The law, in its majestic quality, forbids the rich and poor alike from sleeping under bridges.

This. No one is against true community service, but this requirement is poorly implemented and harms the most vulnerable students who are sometimes working real jobs that pay or caring for siblings and elderly relatives to keep their families afloat.

In theory, "being poor" and hustling to survive gives the same admissions bump as being rich but putting your free time to hard work.

In practice, who knows?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD finished hers in 7th grade because she wanted the MS award. Then she wanted the HS award so she started racking up hours whenever she could.

DS entered MCPS in 2020 and still managed to finish his 75 by 2022 despite the pandemic.

Middle class seniors in good health have zero excuse.

So just let the lower class (aka poor) seniors fail?

Sure. Teach them how the real world works. Unfair rules that disrespect your humanity.

Your nanny making soup that your mom paid for, while you watch == SSL

You making soup to feed your little sister so Mom can work longer hours = not SSL.

The law, in its majestic quality, forbids the rich and poor alike from sleeping under bridges.

This. No one is against true community service, but this requirement is poorly implemented and harms the most vulnerable students who are sometimes working real jobs that pay or caring for siblings and elderly relatives to keep their families afloat.

In theory, "being poor" and hustling to survive gives the same admissions bump as being rich but putting your free time to hard work.

In practice, who knows?

i've never heard any evidence for your "theory." If you look at HYPS students, 70% are from the top 20% of the income distribution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there a way to check how many SSL hours your kid has on Parentvue or Synergy? I was looking around and don’t see it.

It’s in the Course History on ParentVue, at least for my high schoolers. I’m not sure if middle schoolers have this too.

just checked--it's there for my middle schoolers. he's got credit for some dumb stuff (3 hours for MCPS student expectations training). That's not really what most people see as "service."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there a way to check how many SSL hours your kid has on Parentvue or Synergy? I was looking around and don’t see it.

It’s in the Course History on ParentVue, at least for my high schoolers. I’m not sure if middle schoolers have this too.

just checked--it's there for my middle schoolers. he's got credit for some dumb stuff (3 hours for MCPS student expectations training). That's not really what most people see as "service."

No it's not, but MCPS is trying to help all kids see where they could provide service and help. I personally feel that should use a program like Root & Shoots to fully reach Service Learning over a period of time to all 6th graders(along with study skills but that's a different topic). Then they would be equipped to find real SSL project or create their own. But in the absence of that, there are plenty of opportunities from MS through 12th to complete the remaining hours that are not given from class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there a way to check how many SSL hours your kid has on Parentvue or Synergy? I was looking around and don’t see it.

It’s in the Course History on ParentVue, at least for my high schoolers. I’m not sure if middle schoolers have this too.

just checked--it's there for my middle schoolers. he's got credit for some dumb stuff (3 hours for MCPS student expectations training). That's not really what most people see as "service."

No it's not, but MCPS is trying to help all kids see where they could provide service and help. I personally feel that should use a program like Root & Shoots to fully reach Service Learning over a period of time to all 6th graders(along with study skills but that's a different topic). Then they would be equipped to find real SSL project or create their own. But in the absence of that, there are plenty of opportunities from MS through 12th to complete the remaining hours that are not given from class.

Not sure why they put an emphasis on 75 hours of random stuff and call it "service" (30 hours from Outdoor Ed that is required anyway, 15 hours here and there for random virtual learnings that are required anyway to be a student...) Better that the school picks a once a year project and just does it with the kids as a group...

Not graduating kids whose parents can't drive them around to volunteer activities or pay for SSL camp hours is dumb.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s like 14 people who work in the SSL office. I think volunteering and service is important, but SSL hours misses the mark a lot of the time. Students earn 45 hours for just taking required classes. I’d be ok with eliminating the requirement and re-assigning the SSL office.

Agreed. ELD (ESOL) students have historically had a difficult time with this requirement. Why make this a graduation requirement? Reassign SSL staff to teach.

Do you have evidence to back that up, or are you making it up?

In my experience, teaching in a different district with a similar requirement, low income kids are comfortable with public transportation, and they are more likely to live in areas that aren't car dependent. MCPS offers opportunities at school, and at organizations in all neighborhoods, like public elementary schools, libraries, community based organizations, churches that operate food pantries etc . . . If anything, they are more opportunities in lower income neighborhoods, because those neighborhoods are denser housing.

The argument that a kid can't do SSL hours without someone driving applies to affluent kids who are overscheduled and picky about what they do, and whose parents don't expect them to walk or take public transportation. A kid who is willing to do a variety of work, and can get places by themself, can find opportunities.

My kids have been taking public buses since they were 11. They are very skilled at the system. There are very few opportunities that are accessible by public transportation, which kids can do without a parent accompanying them, and which give you more than an hour or two at a time. For instance, my kid did one where she went to a community center in Gaithersburg to help the elderly with their phones….it was 90 minutes of service for which I had to drive her about 40 minutes each way. There was no way to get there by bus in less than about 3 hours with multiple transfers. I really do read these emails every week and there are very few options that don’t require a parent to attend, drive or shell out money (eg buy supplies for the kid to make something at home). One year we went to the County MLK day of service and it was soooooo overcrowded — a lot of the events ran out of supplies before the kids even got a chance to do them. Ans that required an adult (I brought 6 kids as a favor to other parents). And even then was booked up very early so you had to sign up right away.

The idea that there are thousands and thousands of hours of meaningful service in the county that these kids can do on their own is just not realistic. I think. In large party because no one really wants unsupervised kids — unless it is part of a scouting program or a camp where you have parental permissions, waivers and insurance.

+1. This. People keep posting on this thread about how easy it is to get hours and how parents didn’t need to get involved in driving them around at all, but few are posting any details about what these unicorn opportunities are. My takeaway from this thread is that you need to be a parent who paid $$$ for a camp for years that then contracts your kid as free labor and gives them SSl hours once they’re 13+. That doesn’t seem particularly meaningful to me.

Local food pantry, 2 hrs at a time in Silver Spring. May not seem meaningful to you and is certainly not glamorous. You don't need to be rich.

It is meaningful -but it’s not what SSL is like for most kids. You may not need to be rich but in most cases you need a parent willing to drive you to volunteer. Food pantries aren’t typically in prime locations close to public transport.

...but they are almost always conveniently located in low-income neighborhoods with many ELLs, which is the demographic folks on this thread claim to be worried aobut.

[Anonymous]

Anyone who wants to get these hours completed can. There are plenty of places for tweens/teens to volunteer between Maryland/DC/Virginia, including plenty that can be accessed by public transportation(bus, train, combination). There are plenty of in school opportunities between ES/MS/HS. There are even virtual opportunities. The fact that folks on here are complaining is further evidence of kids being too coddled.