Not enough office space: safe from RTO?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We got rid of some office space during pandemic, remote employees have changed office location, although most remote employees are remote locally. Basically, some employees change teleworking status (before Covid) to remote status, with SF 50 duty station changed too.

There is no funding to get more office space (flat funding, majority of funding goes to employees' salary; while salary/other costs increase annually, there is not even enough money to fill every vacancy).

I think less safe, not more. Overcrowding offices and creating untenable working conditions - or even just the constant threat of them - will work perfectly toward their goal of reducing the federal workforce. Many people will simply quit.

Yeah, how are all these people frantically looking for outlets so they can sit indian-style with their laptop not literally tripping all over each other?

You bring your own power station.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What kind of work do people do where you can concentrate with many, many people around you speaking all of the time? A call center? This can't be anything that involves any sort of mental concentration.

You can't. It's a GD disaster and a waste of a day each time I have to make the godforsaken trek into the sh!tty office.

Our RTO was issued for Sept 2023 and then shortly after they realized, oops, they got rid of our office space during the pandemic. They found a floor for us in a nearby sister building and changed our RTO order to be hybrid. Only the 2 highest bosses get offices. The rest of us get the use of a desk that day while in the office. We have strict set hybrid days to make sure there are enough desks for everyone. We don't have a conference room because that was taken to make a ghetto kitchen since this floor originally shared a kitchen with the floor below, but we can't do that because of security issues. Our "kitchen" has a full-size fridge, 2 tables & 8 chairs, a coffee machine, a water cooler, and a microwave. We have no dishwasher or sink so we have to wash our mugs in one of the 2 unisex bathrooms.

There's zero privacy for anything and people eventually forget this aspect, so you get to learn which coworkers are the nose pickers and the scab/skin pickers. So gross.

I get zero work done the two days each week when I'm required to be in the office. My favorite is how the team hybrid schedules don't match, so half the team may be in the office and the other half WFH that day when a meeting is scheduled, so you have 3 people in a giant room on the same Teams call as the rest of the people in their homes.

Lol us too. It's ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spouse has been RTO for about a year. There is no office space. He drives an hour, scans his badge for attendance, and works from his car in the parking lot or a table in the cafeteria. He’ll go in the building for meetings, but then back to his car for phone calls. Then 1.5 hours home.

So. So. Dumb.

This is absurd. This will be my souse too. Find a random place to sit, even if he goes in really early.

If you can work from your car then you can work from anywhere. No way would I stick around to work in my car.

No one is. Fake news.

Yes; you can fit 20-30 people in a room. You cannot fit 1000 in floor space designed for 200. It's just not possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We got rid of some office space during pandemic, remote employees have changed office location, although most remote employees are remote locally. Basically, some employees change teleworking status (before Covid) to remote status, with SF 50 duty station changed too.

There is no funding to get more office space (flat funding, majority of funding goes to employees' salary; while salary/other costs increase annually, there is not even enough money to fill every vacancy).

Why people are so concerned about RTO?

+1. The panic is downright bizarre. To me it gives credit to the argument that people are working less at home. Doing laundry, prepping dinner, picking up kids from school and not paying for aftercare. Otherwise they wouldn’t be in panic mode at the thought of going back.

[Anonymous]

You guys are missing the point that there will be enough space because so many positions will be simply eliminated. Have you not paid attention? They don’t care if you quit - they want you to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We got rid of some office space during pandemic, remote employees have changed office location, although most remote employees are remote locally. Basically, some employees change teleworking status (before Covid) to remote status, with SF 50 duty station changed too.

There is no funding to get more office space (flat funding, majority of funding goes to employees' salary; while salary/other costs increase annually, there is not even enough money to fill every vacancy).

Why people are so concerned about RTO?

+1. The panic is downright bizarre. To me it gives credit to the argument that people are working less at home. Doing laundry, prepping dinner, picking up kids from school and not paying for aftercare. Otherwise they wouldn’t be in panic mode at the thought of going back.

For the millionth time - wanting to be at home at 5:00, instead of an hour away at 5:00, is not nefarious. It's how people make their lives work. Starting your day 30 minutes early so that you can take a 30 minute break later, to drive your kid between school and aftercare because there's no bus, is not nefarious it is literally people using aftercare and accounting for their time. I could give a dozen different examples.

The naysayers are chanting "I didn't have to do that pre-covid" but the fact is, a lot of people DID need to do these things pre-covid and the solution at the time was to be unemployed or underemployed in order to make the household work. So yes, RTO will be a serious income drop / career killer for people who are good at their jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We got rid of some office space during pandemic, remote employees have changed office location, although most remote employees are remote locally. Basically, some employees change teleworking status (before Covid) to remote status, with SF 50 duty station changed too.

There is no funding to get more office space (flat funding, majority of funding goes to employees' salary; while salary/other costs increase annually, there is not even enough money to fill every vacancy).

Why people are so concerned about RTO?

+1. The panic is downright bizarre. To me it gives credit to the argument that people are working less at home. Doing laundry, prepping dinner, picking up kids from school and not paying for aftercare. Otherwise they wouldn’t be in panic mode at the thought of going back.

Nope. Every comment like yours is just a confession that YOU are lazy and would take advantage if you could. Don’t assume everyone is a mooch like you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We got rid of some office space during pandemic, remote employees have changed office location, although most remote employees are remote locally. Basically, some employees change teleworking status (before Covid) to remote status, with SF 50 duty station changed too.

There is no funding to get more office space (flat funding, majority of funding goes to employees' salary; while salary/other costs increase annually, there is not even enough money to fill every vacancy).

Why people are so concerned about RTO?

Lives have been re-arranged around telework (yes, even by/especially by people who are legitimately working the hours they say they are working all the time). Not having those commutes, having the flexibility to start a load of laundry or a crock pot during "lunch," being there for a 5 pm sports practice when before you wouldn't have, being able to be at home with a tween on a day off while still working, and so much more.

Now imagine undoing all that re-arranging.

You made things work before Covid. You can make it work now.

How about you articulate an actual reason for the policy change?

Our nation's economy and the health of cities demands it. It's not just about YOU. There you go.

Oh, weird how the nation’s productivity peaked at the same time WFH did. Makes me think the economy doesn’t depend on it at all.

Drive through the downtown of any US city and the number is shuttered businesses and spaces for lease is shocking. Spaces that used to employee people. You working from your 4,000 square foot McMansion in Centerville isn't helping the economy. It's only helping YOUR own personal economy.

Why is the neighborhood where I live less deserving than downtown? Seems elitist of you.

Suck it up buttercup. Instead of tantruming here, you really should be working on your plan for when you are told to RTO full time.

I'm not PP, but I don't think you understand what we're saying, the teleworkers either dgaf and will quit or they'll go in. Everyone is just kind of over it. The people sweating bullets aren't the GS people, it's the SES and above who'd have to actually implement RTO.

It's easy. Like everything else, you "make a rule" and then ignore it. The political appointee clowns aren't going to check how many people are supposed to be in each room, and they aren't going to RTO themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We got rid of some office space during pandemic, remote employees have changed office location, although most remote employees are remote locally. Basically, some employees change teleworking status (before Covid) to remote status, with SF 50 duty station changed too.

There is no funding to get more office space (flat funding, majority of funding goes to employees' salary; while salary/other costs increase annually, there is not even enough money to fill every vacancy).

Why people are so concerned about RTO?

+1. The panic is downright bizarre. To me it gives credit to the argument that people are working less at home. Doing laundry, prepping dinner, picking up kids from school and not paying for aftercare. Otherwise they wouldn’t be in panic mode at the thought of going back.

No, the MAGA obsession with RTO is what is bizarre. Also bizarre is some unelected nutjob foreigner dictating this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spouse has been RTO for about a year. There is no office space. He drives an hour, scans his badge for attendance, and works from his car in the parking lot or a table in the cafeteria. He’ll go in the building for meetings, but then back to his car for phone calls. Then 1.5 hours home.

So. So. Dumb.

This is absurd. This will be my souse too. Find a random place to sit, even if he goes in really early.

If you can work from your car then you can work from anywhere. No way would I stick around to work in my car.

No one is. Fake news.

Yes; you can fit 20-30 people in a room. You cannot fit 1000 in floor space designed for 200. It's just not possible.

If its an entire floor of a building you can fit a few hundred or more. There are no rooms anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We got rid of some office space during pandemic, remote employees have changed office location, although most remote employees are remote locally. Basically, some employees change teleworking status (before Covid) to remote status, with SF 50 duty station changed too.

There is no funding to get more office space (flat funding, majority of funding goes to employees' salary; while salary/other costs increase annually, there is not even enough money to fill every vacancy).

Why people are so concerned about RTO?

+1. The panic is downright bizarre. To me it gives credit to the argument that people are working less at home. Doing laundry, prepping dinner, picking up kids from school and not paying for aftercare. Otherwise they wouldn’t be in panic mode at the thought of going back.

No, the MAGA obsession with RTO is what is bizarre. Also bizarre is some unelected nutjob foreigner dictating this.

This isn't MAGA, this is both government and private business recalling folks even those who were work from home prior to coivd. They can easily track productivity with software.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We got rid of some office space during pandemic, remote employees have changed office location, although most remote employees are remote locally. Basically, some employees change teleworking status (before Covid) to remote status, with SF 50 duty station changed too.

There is no funding to get more office space (flat funding, majority of funding goes to employees' salary; while salary/other costs increase annually, there is not even enough money to fill every vacancy).

Why people are so concerned about RTO?

+1. The panic is downright bizarre. To me it gives credit to the argument that people are working less at home. Doing laundry, prepping dinner, picking up kids from school and not paying for aftercare. Otherwise they wouldn’t be in panic mode at the thought of going back.

For the millionth time - wanting to be at home at 5:00, instead of an hour away at 5:00, is not nefarious. It's how people make their lives work. Starting your day 30 minutes early so that you can take a 30 minute break later, to drive your kid between school and aftercare because there's no bus, is not nefarious it is literally people using aftercare and accounting for their time. I could give a dozen different examples.

The naysayers are chanting "I didn't have to do that pre-covid" but the fact is, a lot of people DID need to do these things pre-covid and the solution at the time was to be unemployed or underemployed in order to make the household work. So yes, RTO will be a serious income drop / career killer for people who are good at their jobs.

This, but the problem is a lot of jobs aren't 9-5, and often you have to take calls early in the AM and throughout the night. So, how is this all going ot work? The expectation is you still keep that schedule. My spouse's supervisor lives across the country, and co-workers live around the world as do the customes they interact with. The West Coast folks expect calls from 5-8 at night as they are just ramping up after lunch when East Coast are getting ready to leave. If you are a gov't employee, 9-5 may be easier but that's not the reality anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We got rid of some office space during pandemic, remote employees have changed office location, although most remote employees are remote locally. Basically, some employees change teleworking status (before Covid) to remote status, with SF 50 duty station changed too.

There is no funding to get more office space (flat funding, majority of funding goes to employees' salary; while salary/other costs increase annually, there is not even enough money to fill every vacancy).

Why people are so concerned about RTO?

+1. The panic is downright bizarre. To me it gives credit to the argument that people are working less at home. Doing laundry, prepping dinner, picking up kids from school and not paying for aftercare. Otherwise they wouldn’t be in panic mode at the thought of going back.

No, the MAGA obsession with RTO is what is bizarre. Also bizarre is some unelected nutjob foreigner dictating this.

This isn't MAGA, this is both government and private business recalling folks even those who were work from home prior to coivd. They can easily track productivity with software.

And yet they never provide and data demonstrating reduced productivity. Hmmm…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You guys are missing the point that there will be enough space because so many positions will be simply eliminated. Have you not paid attention? They don’t care if you quit - they want you to.

This is what it comes down to as they don't want to look bad and do layoffs so they are trying to get people to quit to bring numbers down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You guys are missing the point that there will be enough space because so many positions will be simply eliminated. Have you not paid attention? They don’t care if you quit - they want you to.

This is what it comes down to as they don't want to look bad and do layoffs so they are trying to get people to quit to bring numbers down.

No, Elon and co want to be seen as eliminating a bunch of people because it will make their brain dead voters happy.

What they don’t want is to actually go through the process of firing people because it can’t happen fast. Their two options are Schedule F or impoundment then RIFs. Both are guaranteed to be stuck in litigation for a long time.