Is it on parents to teach kids to read?

[Anonymous]

Did not read all the comments- but as a parent reading aloud to your kid will help with them learning to read and help the love of reading. Will also expand their vocabulary at an early age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn’t read 8 pages but I’m guessing DMV k and no phonics means MCPS

Some of the absolute dumbest in the county are deciding on the curricula there.

My advice? Really focus on district that chooses smart curricula. Keep open mind. It may surprise you.

Frederick County for instance is the only public school system that sends teachers to Neuroteach seminars at St Andrews in Potomac.

https://neuroteach.us/

Frederick county only school that pays for ASDEC - explicit phonics instruction - for its teachers.

No other DMV county has this innovative math curriculum:

https://illustrativemathematics.org/illustrative-mathematics-9-12-math-wins-silver-stevie-award-in-2021-american-business-awards/

Businesses are the only lobby that can influence any change to public schools - that’s why this is big deal.

So you may be surprised about the ‘quality’ of your DMV public school system.

A better system may be in a place just outside.

They do now but didn't until a couple years ago. I agree about the bizarre curricula decisions. It's no wonder the achievement gap is so big because the parents who could were desperately trying to make up for the deficienies at home or with tutors. Kids who did not have those advantages suffered the most from the poor ELA curicullum.

What do you mean "until a couple of years ago"? They were still using Benchmark until the current school year when they implemented CKLA. Benchmark is so bad that their assessment system is literally the same thing as flipping a coin. Like, it is a system that MCPS paid a ton for that makes teachers spend 30 minutes assessing each child, yet, the results would be equally accurate if the teacher flipped a coin for each child and it would take a lot less time.

Do your kids attend MCPS? In 2022 most ES in MCPS started using Really Great Reading to supplement Benchmark (which I agree is terrible).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn’t read 8 pages but I’m guessing DMV k and no phonics means MCPS

Some of the absolute dumbest in the county are deciding on the curricula there.

My advice? Really focus on district that chooses smart curricula. Keep open mind. It may surprise you.

Frederick County for instance is the only public school system that sends teachers to Neuroteach seminars at St Andrews in Potomac.

https://neuroteach.us/

Frederick county only school that pays for ASDEC - explicit phonics instruction - for its teachers.

No other DMV county has this innovative math curriculum:

https://illustrativemathematics.org/illustrative-mathematics-9-12-math-wins-silver-stevie-award-in-2021-american-business-awards/

Businesses are the only lobby that can influence any change to public schools - that’s why this is big deal.

So you may be surprised about the ‘quality’ of your DMV public school system.

A better system may be in a place just outside.

They do now but didn't until a couple years ago. I agree about the bizarre curricula decisions. It's no wonder the achievement gap is so big because the parents who could were desperately trying to make up for the deficienies at home or with tutors. Kids who did not have those advantages suffered the most from the poor ELA curicullum.

What do you mean "until a couple of years ago"? They were still using Benchmark until the current school year when they implemented CKLA. Benchmark is so bad that their assessment system is literally the same thing as flipping a coin. Like, it is a system that MCPS paid a ton for that makes teachers spend 30 minutes assessing each child, yet, the results would be equally accurate if the teacher flipped a coin for each child and it would take a lot less time.

Do your kids attend MCPS? In 2022 most ES in MCPS started using Really Great Reading to supplement Benchmark (which I agree is terrible).

My kid just started ES MCPS. We are still getting Benchmark readers sent home which I promptly disposed of. From looking at them it is clear they are detrimental to developing strong reading skills. The fact they were still being used in schools until 3 months ago and are STILL being sent home is a disgrace.

My understanding is that prior to the school year that started 3 months ago, systematic phonics instruction was not available to all students. That means MCPS was NOT teaching kids to read, which is borne out by the horrific literacy rates. Those that did learn to read were supplemented at home or are among the minority of kids that can figure it out themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cmon, OP. Is this a question? Yes, parents are supposed to teach their kids to read.

DP here.
Why are you so self righteous? Sorry that not all of us have experience raising kids. How would we know unless someone tells us or we learn the hard way?

Fair point. Now we're telling you: teach your kids to read as soon as you can. Don't wait for the schools, and if anybody tries to tell you what is "developmentally appropriate" tell them to f right off.

Same for math.

Awesome now that my kid is already in 2nd and this realization is just crystalizing for me. Now what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cmon, OP. Is this a question? Yes, parents are supposed to teach their kids to read.

DP here.
Why are you so self righteous? Sorry that not all of us have experience raising kids. How would we know unless someone tells us or we learn the hard way?

Fair point. Now we're telling you: teach your kids to read as soon as you can. Don't wait for the schools, and if anybody tries to tell you what is "developmentally appropriate" tell them to f right off.

Same for math.

Awesome now that my kid is already in 2nd and this realization is just crystalizing for me. Now what?

2nd is in the normal range for learning to read, so grab a copy of Logic of English or All About Reading at your kid's current reading level and get to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cmon, OP. Is this a question? Yes, parents are supposed to teach their kids to read.

DP here.
Why are you so self righteous? Sorry that not all of us have experience raising kids. How would we know unless someone tells us or we learn the hard way?

Fair point. Now we're telling you: teach your kids to read as soon as you can. Don't wait for the schools, and if anybody tries to tell you what is "developmentally appropriate" tell them to f right off.

Same for math.

Awesome now that my kid is already in 2nd and this realization is just crystalizing for me. Now what?

Start working and don't beat yourself up. But start working.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cmon, OP. Is this a question? Yes, parents are supposed to teach their kids to read.

DP here.
Why are you so self righteous? Sorry that not all of us have experience raising kids. How would we know unless someone tells us or we learn the hard way?

Fair point. Now we're telling you: teach your kids to read as soon as you can. Don't wait for the schools, and if anybody tries to tell you what is "developmentally appropriate" tell them to f right off.

Same for math.

Awesome now that my kid is already in 2nd and this realization is just crystalizing for me. Now what?

There is still time to get DC caught up. Do not worry you can fix this if you start now.

Start right away, make sure DC has a solid grasp of Phonics and is able to decode phonetically because that is the foundation.

If their decoding skills are weak, start with Phonics and get a set of Bob Books (which are phonetic beginning readers) and work through all of them in sequence.

Then have DC read aloud to you every day (7 days/week; probably 350 days/year; we skip on DC's birthday or on big religious holidays or if DC is seriously ill [flu]) for 10-15 minutes each day.

For the reading, start with material a little below where you think DC might be in reading. This helps build confidence and ensures a strong foundation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn’t read 8 pages but I’m guessing DMV k and no phonics means MCPS

Some of the absolute dumbest in the county are deciding on the curricula there.

My advice? Really focus on district that chooses smart curricula. Keep open mind. It may surprise you.

Frederick County for instance is the only public school system that sends teachers to Neuroteach seminars at St Andrews in Potomac.

https://neuroteach.us/

Frederick county only school that pays for ASDEC - explicit phonics instruction - for its teachers.

No other DMV county has this innovative math curriculum:

https://illustrativemathematics.org/illustrative-mathematics-9-12-math-wins-silver-stevie-award-in-2021-american-business-awards/

Businesses are the only lobby that can influence any change to public schools - that’s why this is big deal.

So you may be surprised about the ‘quality’ of your DMV public school system.

A better system may be in a place just outside.

They do now but didn't until a couple years ago. I agree about the bizarre curricula decisions. It's no wonder the achievement gap is so big because the parents who could were desperately trying to make up for the deficienies at home or with tutors. Kids who did not have those advantages suffered the most from the poor ELA curicullum.

What do you mean "until a couple of years ago"? They were still using Benchmark until the current school year when they implemented CKLA. Benchmark is so bad that their assessment system is literally the same thing as flipping a coin. Like, it is a system that MCPS paid a ton for that makes teachers spend 30 minutes assessing each child, yet, the results would be equally accurate if the teacher flipped a coin for each child and it would take a lot less time.

Do your kids attend MCPS? In 2022 most ES in MCPS started using Really Great Reading to supplement Benchmark (which I agree is terrible).

My kid just started ES MCPS. We are still getting Benchmark readers sent home which I promptly disposed of. From looking at them it is clear they are detrimental to developing strong reading skills. The fact they were still being used in schools until 3 months ago and are STILL being sent home is a disgrace.

My understanding is that prior to the school year that started 3 months ago, systematic phonics instruction was not available to all students. That means MCPS was NOT teaching kids to read, which is borne out by the horrific literacy rates. Those that did learn to read were supplemented at home or are among the minority of kids that can figure it out themselves.

Wait what is Benchmark readers and why are they bad? Is this different from leveled readers, Heggarty, and other graded readers that teachers use? We get book sent home too. Some are marked with a number or letter level. Some are just small short books that a teacher has marked a letter level on with a sharpie.

[Anonymous]

Benchmark is the completely discredited Fountas and Pinnell system. All based on three cueing, not phonics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn’t read 8 pages but I’m guessing DMV k and no phonics means MCPS

Some of the absolute dumbest in the county are deciding on the curricula there.

My advice? Really focus on district that chooses smart curricula. Keep open mind. It may surprise you.

Frederick County for instance is the only public school system that sends teachers to Neuroteach seminars at St Andrews in Potomac.

https://neuroteach.us/

Frederick county only school that pays for ASDEC - explicit phonics instruction - for its teachers.

No other DMV county has this innovative math curriculum:

https://illustrativemathematics.org/illustrative-mathematics-9-12-math-wins-silver-stevie-award-in-2021-american-business-awards/

Businesses are the only lobby that can influence any change to public schools - that’s why this is big deal.

So you may be surprised about the ‘quality’ of your DMV public school system.

A better system may be in a place just outside.

They do now but didn't until a couple years ago. I agree about the bizarre curricula decisions. It's no wonder the achievement gap is so big because the parents who could were desperately trying to make up for the deficienies at home or with tutors. Kids who did not have those advantages suffered the most from the poor ELA curicullum.

What do you mean "until a couple of years ago"? They were still using Benchmark until the current school year when they implemented CKLA. Benchmark is so bad that their assessment system is literally the same thing as flipping a coin. Like, it is a system that MCPS paid a ton for that makes teachers spend 30 minutes assessing each child, yet, the results would be equally accurate if the teacher flipped a coin for each child and it would take a lot less time.

Do your kids attend MCPS? In 2022 most ES in MCPS started using Really Great Reading to supplement Benchmark (which I agree is terrible).

My kid just started ES MCPS. We are still getting Benchmark readers sent home which I promptly disposed of. From looking at them it is clear they are detrimental to developing strong reading skills. The fact they were still being used in schools until 3 months ago and are STILL being sent home is a disgrace.

My understanding is that prior to the school year that started 3 months ago, systematic phonics instruction was not available to all students. That means MCPS was NOT teaching kids to read, which is borne out by the horrific literacy rates. Those that did learn to read were supplemented at home or are among the minority of kids that can figure it out themselves.

Wait what is Benchmark readers and why are they bad? Is this different from leveled readers, Heggarty, and other graded readers that teachers use? We get book sent home too. Some are marked with a number or letter level. Some are just small short books that a teacher has marked a letter level on with a sharpie.

I have a 3rd grader in MCPS and we never had readers sent home at all. We were just told to have the kids read 20 min each night and let the kids pick out the books. With the new curriculum are kids in K-2 sent home with decodable readers at all? Or do parent still need to figure that part out for themselves?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:About 30% of kids will learn to read no matter if they were taught properly. Studies are mostly consistent about this.

Its the other 70% - a clear majority - that do need explicit instruction using proper methods - Science of Reading.

Yes that's why we had only 30% literacy rate before Science of Reading was invented.

Right?

Right?

The study just says explicit and systematic instruction not a specific curriculum.

No. Multiple studies (science of reading has multiple independent studies, not just one) say multiple elements are needed in any viable curriculum and that Phonics needs to be front and center.

Mere systematic instruction is not sufficient - Calkins crap was systematic but it did not work.

Interestingly even Natalie Wexler just had a post out about this - there's phonics and then there's treating 5 year olds like aspiring linguists and teaching them every single phenome until they are bored to tears. The point is supposed to be teaching the most common patterns in English and at some point kids will just start to get it, not making sure kids can nearly rattle off the International Phonetic Alphabet.

https://nataliewexler.substack.com/p/has-the-science-of-reading-gone-overboard

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:About 30% of kids will learn to read no matter if they were taught properly. Studies are mostly consistent about this.

Its the other 70% - a clear majority - that do need explicit instruction using proper methods - Science of Reading.

Yes that's why we had only 30% literacy rate before Science of Reading was invented.

Right?

Right?

The study just says explicit and systematic instruction not a specific curriculum.

No. Multiple studies (science of reading has multiple independent studies, not just one) say multiple elements are needed in any viable curriculum and that Phonics needs to be front and center.

Mere systematic instruction is not sufficient - Calkins crap was systematic but it did not work.

Interestingly even Natalie Wexler just had a post out about this - there's phonics and then there's treating 5 year olds like aspiring linguists and teaching them every single phenome until they are bored to tears. The point is supposed to be teaching the most common patterns in English and at some point kids will just start to get it, not making sure kids can nearly rattle off the International Phonetic Alphabet.

https://nataliewexler.substack.com/p/has-the-science-of-reading-gone-overboard

Yes, but I do not think ANY metro DC school, public or private, is going overboard in the manner described. So it is NOT a real risk this year anyplace here.

And that 1985 report’s criticism was NOT valid for the vast majority of schools across the USA. (The US is a big country, so it must have been true *some* place, but I cannot think of any place trying to teach “all the rules” back in 1985.). That 1985 report — with its overly broad conclusions — is part of what was MISUSED to justify the Whole Language / Balanced Literacy crap we finally are getting rid of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn’t read 8 pages but I’m guessing DMV k and no phonics means MCPS

Some of the absolute dumbest in the county are deciding on the curricula there.

My advice? Really focus on district that chooses smart curricula. Keep open mind. It may surprise you.

Frederick County for instance is the only public school system that sends teachers to Neuroteach seminars at St Andrews in Potomac.

https://neuroteach.us/

Frederick county only school that pays for ASDEC - explicit phonics instruction - for its teachers.

No other DMV county has this innovative math curriculum:

https://illustrativemathematics.org/illustrative-mathematics-9-12-math-wins-silver-stevie-award-in-2021-american-business-awards/

Businesses are the only lobby that can influence any change to public schools - that’s why this is big deal.

So you may be surprised about the ‘quality’ of your DMV public school system.

A better system may be in a place just outside.

They do now but didn't until a couple years ago. I agree about the bizarre curricula decisions. It's no wonder the achievement gap is so big because the parents who could were desperately trying to make up for the deficienies at home or with tutors. Kids who did not have those advantages suffered the most from the poor ELA curicullum.

What do you mean "until a couple of years ago"? They were still using Benchmark until the current school year when they implemented CKLA. Benchmark is so bad that their assessment system is literally the same thing as flipping a coin. Like, it is a system that MCPS paid a ton for that makes teachers spend 30 minutes assessing each child, yet, the results would be equally accurate if the teacher flipped a coin for each child and it would take a lot less time.

Do your kids attend MCPS? In 2022 most ES in MCPS started using Really Great Reading to supplement Benchmark (which I agree is terrible).

My kid just started ES MCPS. We are still getting Benchmark readers sent home which I promptly disposed of. From looking at them it is clear they are detrimental to developing strong reading skills. The fact they were still being used in schools until 3 months ago and are STILL being sent home is a disgrace.

My understanding is that prior to the school year that started 3 months ago, systematic phonics instruction was not available to all students. That means MCPS was NOT teaching kids to read, which is borne out by the horrific literacy rates. Those that did learn to read were supplemented at home or are among the minority of kids that can figure it out themselves.

Wait what is Benchmark readers and why are they bad? Is this different from leveled readers, Heggarty, and other graded readers that teachers use? We get book sent home too. Some are marked with a number or letter level. Some are just small short books that a teacher has marked a letter level on with a sharpie.

I have a 3rd grader in MCPS and we never had readers sent home at all. We were just told to have the kids read 20 min each night and let the kids pick out the books. With the new curriculum are kids in K-2 sent home with decodable readers at all? Or do parent still need to figure that part out for themselves?

No, we haven't been sent decodable readers. We've been sent Benchmark readers of a bunch of different levels with no connection to what they are learning in class or what my child's level is.

My child is still working on sounding out CVC words. The one Benchmark reader that was sent home that is even close to her level includes CVCC words that she isn't ready for yet.

We purchased a set of Bob books on our own. They are giving our child a lot of confidence, which is great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:About 30% of kids will learn to read no matter if they were taught properly. Studies are mostly consistent about this.

Its the other 70% - a clear majority - that do need explicit instruction using proper methods - Science of Reading.

Yes that's why we had only 30% literacy rate before Science of Reading was invented.

Right?

Right?

The study just says explicit and systematic instruction not a specific curriculum.

No. Multiple studies (science of reading has multiple independent studies, not just one) say multiple elements are needed in any viable curriculum and that Phonics needs to be front and center.

Mere systematic instruction is not sufficient - Calkins crap was systematic but it did not work.

Interestingly even Natalie Wexler just had a post out about this - there's phonics and then there's treating 5 year olds like aspiring linguists and teaching them every single phenome until they are bored to tears. The point is supposed to be teaching the most common patterns in English and at some point kids will just start to get it, not making sure kids can nearly rattle off the International Phonetic Alphabet.

https://nataliewexler.substack.com/p/has-the-science-of-reading-gone-overboard

Thanks for sharing this really interesting blog post.

What I have observed is that in an attempt to address low literacy rates, some school systems are pushing phonics at very early ages (e.g. DCPS expecting kids in prek4 to be able to read by the end of the year). There isn't evidence that early reading has any long term benefits, and some signs that it may for some kids actually promote bad reading habits, like memorizing whole words and not learning to sound them out. I don't think phonics is the issue here. I think it's the notion that 5 year olds SHOULD have skills that not all 5 year olds do. It's trying to make up for the failings of balanced literacy in an aggressive way but not a thoughtful way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:About 30% of kids will learn to read no matter if they were taught properly. Studies are mostly consistent about this.

Its the other 70% - a clear majority - that do need explicit instruction using proper methods - Science of Reading.

Yes that's why we had only 30% literacy rate before Science of Reading was invented.

Right?

Right?

The study just says explicit and systematic instruction not a specific curriculum.

No. Multiple studies (science of reading has multiple independent studies, not just one) say multiple elements are needed in any viable curriculum and that Phonics needs to be front and center.

Mere systematic instruction is not sufficient - Calkins crap was systematic but it did not work.

Interestingly even Natalie Wexler just had a post out about this - there's phonics and then there's treating 5 year olds like aspiring linguists and teaching them every single phenome until they are bored to tears. The point is supposed to be teaching the most common patterns in English and at some point kids will just start to get it, not making sure kids can nearly rattle off the International Phonetic Alphabet.

https://nataliewexler.substack.com/p/has-the-science-of-reading-gone-overboard

Yes, but I do not think ANY metro DC school, public or private, is going overboard in the manner described. So it is NOT a real risk this year anyplace here.

And that 1985 report’s criticism was NOT valid for the vast majority of schools across the USA. (The US is a big country, so it must have been true *some* place, but I cannot think of any place trying to teach “all the rules” back in 1985.). That 1985 report — with its overly broad conclusions — is part of what was MISUSED to justify the Whole Language / Balanced Literacy crap we finally are getting rid of.

PP here. That's a good point. Certainly my kids' FCPS school that had been doing phonics for the past 2 years was only hitting on the most used phenomes.