No more history majors...?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you, OP. I am also a history major and often find my peers (without a liberal arts education) to be pretty inarticulate and not very thoughtful. There is a correlation between the demise of the humanities and the popularity of Colleen Hoover-type authors and books.

Ditto! I was a history major. Too many Americans don't know any history. More foreigners know about America than Americans. If Americans weren't so ignorant, we would have never had Trump.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you, OP. I am also a history major and often find my peers (without a liberal arts education) to be pretty inarticulate and not very thoughtful. There is a correlation between the demise of the humanities and the popularity of Colleen Hoover-type authors and books.

Ditto! I was a history major. Too many Americans don't know any history. More foreigners know about America than Americans. If Americans weren't so ignorant, we would have never had Trump.

? the majority of Americans don't have a college degree. They would've learned basic US history in HS. Are you suggesting that everyone go to college and major in history?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Which colleges in the US don't give their students a background in the liberal arts? I have never heard of this.

+1

[Anonymous]

Everyone needs to look at the Bucknell Graduate Outcomes for the class of 2023 that someone posted in the other thread. History majors were doing the same consulting/legal/research associate jobs. Avg salary just over $61K, which was about $10K more than most sciences like biology and chemistry. Same with English majors who had an average of $63K-$69K. They broke out creative writing and literary studies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone needs to look at the Bucknell Graduate Outcomes for the class of 2023 that someone posted in the other thread. History majors were doing the same consulting/legal/research associate jobs. Avg salary just over $61K, which was about $10K more than most sciences like biology and chemistry. Same with English majors who had an average of $63K-$69K. They broke out creative writing and literary studies.

It seems very dependent on school. For example,
The median salary for Harvard comp sci graduates 5 years out is $219k. Applied math is $178k. Economics is $161k. History is $94k.

At Penn - history is $84k. Finance is $242k. Economics is $152k. Nursing is $114k. Pure comp sci is $171k. Computer and Information Science is $298k.

To look at state schools, at UMD, history is $55k. Information science is $113k. Business admin is $102k, finance $116k. Marketing is $91k. Journalism is $72k. Chemistry is $78k.

Moving lower on the totem pole, let's check out Salisbury. Comp sci is $113k. Accounting is $83k. History is $49k. Business admin is $75k. Marketing is $67k.

Egads!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you, OP. I am also a history major and often find my peers (without a liberal arts education) to be pretty inarticulate and not very thoughtful. There is a correlation between the demise of the humanities and the popularity of Colleen Hoover-type authors and books.

Ditto! I was a history major. Too many Americans don't know any history. More foreigners know about America than Americans. If Americans weren't so ignorant, we would have never had Trump.

? the majority of Americans don't have a college degree. They would've learned basic US history in HS. Are you suggesting that everyone go to college and major in history?

NP. One doesn’t have to major in history to have a little curiosity, or at least respect, for the field. If the prevailing attitude is indeed that someone whose kid wants to be a history teacher has failed as a parent (as a PP stated), or that learning about history is a waste of time, then we have a problem.

I think an even bigger problem, however, is that people all across the political spectrum act like they care deeply about history, but they just cherry pick the parts that suit them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What kind of jobs are those with a B.A. in history getting? Kids graduating from schools outside of the top 50?

I am curious about this too. It's great and all that kids from top colleges are getting good jobs, but only a teeny tiny sliver of the college attending population goes to these schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you, OP. I am also a history major and often find my peers (without a liberal arts education) to be pretty inarticulate and not very thoughtful. There is a correlation between the demise of the humanities and the popularity of Colleen Hoover-type authors and books.

Ditto! I was a history major. Too many Americans don't know any history. More foreigners know about America than Americans. If Americans weren't so ignorant, we would have never had Trump.

Yes Trump is what happens when the liberal arts are dismissed as frivolous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you, OP. I am also a history major and often find my peers (without a liberal arts education) to be pretty inarticulate and not very thoughtful. There is a correlation between the demise of the humanities and the popularity of Colleen Hoover-type authors and books.

Ditto! I was a history major. Too many Americans don't know any history. More foreigners know about America than Americans. If Americans weren't so ignorant, we would have never had Trump.

Yes Trump is what happens when the liberal arts are dismissed as frivolous.

…Trump has a liberal arts degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:college is too expensive and the world is too competitive for people to get hobby degrees. You can learn just as much by frequenting a good public library and accessing the incredible wealth of free media content that is out there.

What an ignorant post.

No lie though.

Colleges have priced themselves out of the traditional college experience - "have fun, make friends, explore different subjects, learn things every civilized person should know".

+1 there are people who love history, read a lot of history books, watch history documentaries, but didn't major in history. What are you learning in a history class that can't be learned by reading lots of history books?

Whereas the vast majority of people wouldn't be able to teach themselves higher level math by just reading a math book.

Yes, a great coder can learn to code without a college degree, which is why companies like Alphabet now don't necessarily require a college degree for swe positions.

But, most people can't learn on their own if they want a career in CS. Even if most people can't learn on their own about history by just reading a book, so what? They aren't trying to get a job in a field that requires you to know history.

I'm not saying you need to major in CS (one kid is but another is not), but this is about why there aren't very many history majors anymore. And it's clear why.

All of that liberal arts college stuff? Like critical thinking? How to write? What it is to be human? What culture is? How societal patterns are repeated? How to identify that and work toward a better future?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you, OP. I am also a history major and often find my peers (without a liberal arts education) to be pretty inarticulate and not very thoughtful. There is a correlation between the demise of the humanities and the popularity of Colleen Hoover-type authors and books.

Ditto! I was a history major. Too many Americans don't know any history. More foreigners know about America than Americans. If Americans weren't so ignorant, we would have never had Trump.

The problem is not that people don't know history, but that what "educated" people know about history is wrong. And this includes Democrats as much as Republicans, or even more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you, OP. I am also a history major and often find my peers (without a liberal arts education) to be pretty inarticulate and not very thoughtful. There is a correlation between the demise of the humanities and the popularity of Colleen Hoover-type authors and books.

Ditto! I was a history major. Too many Americans don't know any history. More foreigners know about America than Americans. If Americans weren't so ignorant, we would have never had Trump.

Yes Trump is what happens when the liberal arts are dismissed as frivolous.

Hmmm sounds like it was a big mistake for liberals to have spent decades infecting the liberal arts with their ideological agenda, thus making the liberal arts appear useless, frivolous, and repulsive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:college is too expensive and the world is too competitive for people to get hobby degrees. You can learn just as much by frequenting a good public library and accessing the incredible wealth of free media content that is out there.

What an ignorant post.

No lie though.

Colleges have priced themselves out of the traditional college experience - "have fun, make friends, explore different subjects, learn things every civilized person should know".

+1 there are people who love history, read a lot of history books, watch history documentaries, but didn't major in history. What are you learning in a history class that can't be learned by reading lots of history books?

Whereas the vast majority of people wouldn't be able to teach themselves higher level math by just reading a math book.

Yes, a great coder can learn to code without a college degree, which is why companies like Alphabet now don't necessarily require a college degree for swe positions.

But, most people can't learn on their own if they want a career in CS. Even if most people can't learn on their own about history by just reading a book, so what? They aren't trying to get a job in a field that requires you to know history.

I'm not saying you need to major in CS (one kid is but another is not), but this is about why there aren't very many history majors anymore. And it's clear why.

All of that liberal arts college stuff? Like critical thinking? How to write? What it is to be human? What culture is? How societal patterns are repeated? How to identify that and work toward a better future?

And which reputable college doesn't require STEM majors to take liberal arts classes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:college is too expensive and the world is too competitive for people to get hobby degrees. You can learn just as much by frequenting a good public library and accessing the incredible wealth of free media content that is out there.

What an ignorant post.

No lie though.

Colleges have priced themselves out of the traditional college experience - "have fun, make friends, explore different subjects, learn things every civilized person should know".

+1 there are people who love history, read a lot of history books, watch history documentaries, but didn't major in history. What are you learning in a history class that can't be learned by reading lots of history books?

Whereas the vast majority of people wouldn't be able to teach themselves higher level math by just reading a math book.

Yes, a great coder can learn to code without a college degree, which is why companies like Alphabet now don't necessarily require a college degree for swe positions.

But, most people can't learn on their own if they want a career in CS. Even if most people can't learn on their own about history by just reading a book, so what? They aren't trying to get a job in a field that requires you to know history.

I'm not saying you need to major in CS (one kid is but another is not), but this is about why there aren't very many history majors anymore. And it's clear why.

All of that liberal arts college stuff? Like critical thinking? How to write? What it is to be human? What culture is? How societal patterns are repeated? How to identify that and work toward a better future?

I can read philosophy and history books at home to learn about these things.

Are you seriously saying that only history majors learn critical thinking skills? You think my dual CS/math major kid, who also, btw has an IB Diploma and took IB History and IB and AP exam, doesn't have any critical thinking skills?

BTW, I love history, but outside of T10 or those going to grad school, being a history major won't get you a good paying job. Look at a PP's post about income by majors and schools.

Maybe history majors aren't numbers driven people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One business owner said these talents are at top of his list for hiring.

“We want task-orientated people who have disciplines in critical thinking,” said Michael Fromm, CEO of Fromm Electric, an electrical manufacturing firm based in Reading, Pa.

“If someone’s studied literature, they know people and have insight into themselves and customers,” said Fromm, who majored in journalism. “I find people that have a liberal arts background have a broader view of the world and will go farther in business.”

The survey also found that business executives thought colleges weren’t teaching students what they need to know to succeed. A third of employers said graduates weren’t even qualified for entry level work when it came to reading and writing.

“A stem education is important but I think it’s sucked all the oxygen out of the room and crowded out investment in other areas like history, literature and political science,” said Jamie McKown, chairman of the government and polity department at the College of the Atlantic.

“I think the U.S. will lose some of its competitive edge if it takes the simplistic approach that this (STEM education) is the only pathway to economic success.”

A key result in the survey is the need for innovation in the workplace. Ninety-five percent of those surveyed said they look for college graduates who can think clearly and solve problems and be able to translate their ideas with good oral and communication skills.

“Our business students take more liberal arts classes, like the humanities, literature and art, than they take business classes,” said Donald Gibson, dean of Fairfield University. “This is rare among colleges, but we think this makes them more well rounded and better at succeeding in their chose field of business


“Businesses want more now,” Fox said. “In places like Google
, they want people who are self-motivated and articulate and can think on their own. It’s not enough just to have tech skills. Graduates have to do more.”

What major doesn't teach their student how to think for themselves?

Self motivation is not something that you learn by major. It's fairly innate. My DC is self motivated to a certain degree. I agree that both self motivation and being articulate are important but that's not something you learn just because you are a history major.