What do liberal arts majors do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Math, Physics, Chemistry, Biology and Computer Science are all liberal arts majors.

Commenters aren't distinguishing between majoring in one of those arts, majority in humanities vs STEM, majority in one of the liberal arts vs a preprofessional degree, and majoring in general liberal arts without any area of focus.

BS CS is part of the "Math and Engineering" departments and is technical. I suppose you could get a BA in CS which is more "LA".

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Everybody has an anecdote, but you can only go based on the averages.

I would hazard nearly all the folks suggesting you pursue liberal arts have a certain caliber of school in mind. I doubt even you would suggest studying English at Frostburg State.

So, I don't know the cut-off...but I think it's only a select group of schools that any PP really believes you should pursue a liberal arts degree with zero expectation of graduate school.

As far as I know, there are zero liberal arts majors actually founding the AI companies that everyone discusses above. Go look at the Bios of OpenAI, Anthropic and others. The vast majority of the staffs have STEM/Math/Physics backgrounds.

For that matter, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Ellison, Sergei, Larry Page...none have liberal arts backgrounds.

That doesn't mean they don't value great communicators and critical thinkers. Perhaps the ideal graduate has a dual CS/Liberal Arts degree.

A liberal arts major would know to inform you that you cannot, in fact, go by the "averages" since averages are skewed.

If you, me, and Sally Lee are in a room with Jeff Bezos, we have an average income in the billions. But one of us is not like the others.

This is a silly argument. Ok, you have to go by a statistically significant average or look at statistically significant median incomes.

Didn't think I had to make that clear, but I guess I do.

Now you are moving the goalposts. You clearly lack the critical thinking skills that are taught in the liberal arts.

You need to choose a central tendency. You said "averages." I agree median is a better measure. However, you're treating them as they're interchangeable. Which they're usually not. As my Bezos example gives. Sometimes, it might even be appropriate to use the mode to measure, you know?

DP.

Median and mean are extremely similar, but median is generally harder to obtain. Ignoring mean is a low quality rebuttal.

Jeff Bezos's $10B/yr only moves the mean annual income (100M US workers) $100/year.

Yes, event the government includes the Bezos of the world when calculating median income of a US worker.

Is that true? I would assume they only count W2 income. I bet Jeff Bezos like many ultra wealthy people only pays himself a $1 in W2 salary.

Then the ^^PPs Bezos reference is moot. But, I don't know if they look at w2 income or "adjusted gross income" which could include non w2 income.

I'm self employed and don't get a w2, but I do have an income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everybody has an anecdote, but you can only go based on the averages.

I would hazard nearly all the folks suggesting you pursue liberal arts have a certain caliber of school in mind. I doubt even you would suggest studying English at Frostburg State.

So, I don't know the cut-off...but I think it's only a select group of schools that any PP really believes you should pursue a liberal arts degree with zero expectation of graduate school.

As far as I know, there are zero liberal arts majors actually founding the AI companies that everyone discusses above. Go look at the Bios of OpenAI, Anthropic and others. The vast majority of the staffs have STEM/Math/Physics backgrounds.

For that matter, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Ellison, Sergei, Larry Page...none have liberal arts backgrounds.

That doesn't mean they don't value great communicators and critical thinkers. Perhaps the ideal graduate has a dual CS/Liberal Arts degree.

Show me the averages. Not the averages for Pell kids, the averages.

Go through the Payscale list as that is probably all you can do to look at overall averages. It's probably more instructive to look at how colleges that don't offer liberal arts degrees perform as while a Williams ranks well, you have no idea if someone actually studied engineering or other STEM at Williams or not.

https://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/bachelors

Schools like Harvey Mudd, Babson, Stevens, CalTech, etc. perform very well...there are relatively few SLACs in the Top 50.

This looks at both starting salaries, but the rankings are based on salaries 10 years out.

Sorry, not interested in people who reply to an online survey. I meant real data.

Payscale data:

The data used in Payscale's College Salary Report is collected through our ongoing, online compensation survey. People complete the Payscale survey to understand their price in the labor market. Users provide data about their jobs, compensation, employer, demographics and educational background.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:1/3 of global CEOs of Fortune 500 companies have liberal arts degrees.

A lot of those are economics tho

Economics is a good major unlike those humanities majors like English, communications, anthropology, etc. etc.

I would argue the same skills are being taught, just looking at human behavior through different lenses.

Economics is ultimately about people and how they behave. Just like anthropology, communications, and English.

I do agree the fields those might take you into might have wildly varying pay scales, but not everyone is motivated by a top-earning paycheck. If someone has a passion for anthropology, they'll accept lower pay than a computer scientist. And the difference in an AI world is the computer scientist is more likely to be displaced than the anthropologist, who will APPLY AI to their work.

More to the point, the foundational skills of all these majors are essentially the same, which makes these people highly desirable for large global Fortune 500 companies -- should those majors even desire to work in such an environment.

I have a liberal arts degree in philosophy. I earn $275,000 a year and have earned in the $200s since my 30s.

I realize anecdote is not evidence, but the notion that there's no value in liberal arts is not grounded in reality. And it also doesn't herald the future, where humanities degrees will be more coveted than engineering or computer science. Just ask Mark Cuban.

Sorry that's not the reality.

Harvard Economics: $124,570
Harvard English: $49,570

Employers who actually pay don't agree with you.

There is a huge difference in starting salaries. Much less difference after 15 or 20 years, and some studies show the difference can even reverse.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/good-news-liberal-arts-majors-your-peers-probably-wont-outearn-you-forever-1473645902

Anyway there is a lot more to life than earning 140k at 23. I spent my 20s traveling and studying and doing some low-paid work. Now at 50 I earn $350k. I wouldn’t change a thing. History degree, by the way (where I learned not to focus unduly on the short term)…

LOL there are a lot more to life with 140k at 23 like traveling and experiencing the world.
Much harder with 60K unless you are a trust fund kid. Pay rent.

DP: Actually the opposite is more true--when you are not gunning for a high earning position, you find some teaching English internationally position or other similar, use that to travel the world and pay your rent in LCOL countries. As you meet people, you often find other job opportunities. You develop a lot of experience, develop a solid sense of your self and the world, meet a lot of people and figure out what you want to do with this one life you have. This path is easier than it ever was with the ability to stay on your parent's health insurance until age 26 and/or purchase cheap traveler's insurance or ACA in the US. This self-development plus international work history isn't too hard to then translate into a US career-oriented job in your mid-20s.

My bilingual kid considered this, but there a huge problem with this.
What are you going to do after a while?
Not much option for formal ESL teacher.

You just hustle a bit while you're working abroad--look into different options, see what life is like, pick up experience etc. Most people I know who have done this have figured out a path that works and it's not teaching ESL. Most companies want somebody with some intercultural competence, so you pick up whatever additional skill is in demand at the moment. You already have a job record for the soft skills/work ethic part to get recommendations and you have a college degree--it's really not that hard to turn that into a career.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everybody has an anecdote, but you can only go based on the averages.

I would hazard nearly all the folks suggesting you pursue liberal arts have a certain caliber of school in mind. I doubt even you would suggest studying English at Frostburg State.

So, I don't know the cut-off...but I think it's only a select group of schools that any PP really believes you should pursue a liberal arts degree with zero expectation of graduate school.

As far as I know, there are zero liberal arts majors actually founding the AI companies that everyone discusses above. Go look at the Bios of OpenAI, Anthropic and others. The vast majority of the staffs have STEM/Math/Physics backgrounds.

For that matter, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Ellison, Sergei, Larry Page...none have liberal arts backgrounds.

That doesn't mean they don't value great communicators and critical thinkers. Perhaps the ideal graduate has a dual CS/Liberal Arts degree.

Show me the averages. Not the averages for Pell kids, the averages.

Go through the Payscale list as that is probably all you can do to look at overall averages. It's probably more instructive to look at how colleges that don't offer liberal arts degrees perform as while a Williams ranks well, you have no idea if someone actually studied engineering or other STEM at Williams or not.

https://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/bachelors

Schools like Harvey Mudd, Babson, Stevens, CalTech, etc. perform very well...there are relatively few SLACs in the Top 50.

This looks at both starting salaries, but the rankings are based on salaries 10 years out.

Sorry, not interested in people who reply to an online survey. I meant real data.

Payscale data:

The data used in Payscale's College Salary Report is collected through our ongoing, online compensation survey. People complete the Payscale survey to understand their price in the labor market. Users provide data about their jobs, compensation, employer, demographics and educational background.

Got it...so your approach is just to bury your head in the sand because there is no other way to compile the data. It's either you use the DOE data which won't work for you because it only gets data on Pell recipients or its surveys.

I guess you get to live in LaLa land (no pun intended) for eternity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everybody has an anecdote, but you can only go based on the averages.

I would hazard nearly all the folks suggesting you pursue liberal arts have a certain caliber of school in mind. I doubt even you would suggest studying English at Frostburg State.

So, I don't know the cut-off...but I think it's only a select group of schools that any PP really believes you should pursue a liberal arts degree with zero expectation of graduate school.

As far as I know, there are zero liberal arts majors actually founding the AI companies that everyone discusses above. Go look at the Bios of OpenAI, Anthropic and others. The vast majority of the staffs have STEM/Math/Physics backgrounds.

For that matter, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Ellison, Sergei, Larry Page...none have liberal arts backgrounds.

That doesn't mean they don't value great communicators and critical thinkers. Perhaps the ideal graduate has a dual CS/Liberal Arts degree.

Show me the averages. Not the averages for Pell kids, the averages.

Go through the Payscale list as that is probably all you can do to look at overall averages. It's probably more instructive to look at how colleges that don't offer liberal arts degrees perform as while a Williams ranks well, you have no idea if someone actually studied engineering or other STEM at Williams or not.

https://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/bachelors

Schools like Harvey Mudd, Babson, Stevens, CalTech, etc. perform very well...there are relatively few SLACs in the Top 50.

This looks at both starting salaries, but the rankings are based on salaries 10 years out.

Sorry, not interested in people who reply to an online survey. I meant real data.

Payscale data:

The data used in Payscale's College Salary Report is collected through our ongoing, online compensation survey. People complete the Payscale survey to understand their price in the labor market. Users provide data about their jobs, compensation, employer, demographics and educational background.

Got it...so your approach is just to bury your head in the sand because there is no other way to compile the data. It's either you use the DOE data which won't work for you because it only gets data on Pell recipients or its surveys.

I guess you get to live in LaLa land (no pun intended) for eternity.

DP: Or you realize that for an individual person making individual decisions about their lives a lot of this so-so data about group averages isn't the best source of information. You know your skills, your resourcefulness, your interests, your connections, your desires and you figure out a way to make a life that works for you. These kinds of averages can be slightly informative, but I would say bureau of labor statistics projections are perhaps a bit more valuable because those at least are forward looking and are made by people who are informed by and understand the strengths and limitations of a wide range of data sources.

I work with data for my living and I see the ways it gets distorted and misused all the time--not for any nefarious reason, just by people who think numbers= firm reality without thinking through the complexities of what those mean. So I wouldn't discount these data, but I'm not going to tell people to make major life decisions based on them either.

[Anonymous]

I love all the responses talking about the value of humanities. Of course people that can think, read, write and are actually educated would be valuable in organizations that interact with the actual real world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Math, Physics, Chemistry, Biology and Computer Science are all liberal arts majors.

Commenters aren't distinguishing between majoring in one of those arts, majority in humanities vs STEM, majority in one of the liberal arts vs a preprofessional degree, and majoring in general liberal arts without any area of focus.

BS CS is part of the "Math and Engineering" departments and is technical. I suppose you could get a BA in CS which is more "LA".

A BA in CS is a nice option as well. Nothing wrong with a well-rounded technical education. Writing and communication is still valued.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are so many things you can do in this world that aren’t engineering. My background fits your description and I work in marketing. I make around $350k. Entry level is about $60k.

Sharp analytical thinkers and storytellers will be needed, even in an AI-driven world.

ESPECIALLY in an AI-driven world. AI is going to replace the coders, not the creatives.

uh no. I have seen AI create art (amazing btw), and write stuff. If AI can code, it can write some marketing blurb.

AI currently regurgitates writing instead of creating original ideas in writing.

I guess we will see if humans want to watch movies and shows created by AI. Only time will tell.

AI generated art and marketing content (which is ephemeral) is way better that AI generated code (which is more permanent).

LOL. I can't speak to the code, but AI generated art and marketing content is all superficial and junk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I love all the responses talking about the value of humanities. Of course people that can think, read, write and are actually educated would be valuable in organizations that interact with the actual real world.

Sure, but they usually tend to need graduate degrees to get a good paying job.

OP is asking, "What do liberal arts majors do"? They either get lower paying jobs or go to grad school.

Here's a list of % unemployed/undereployed by majors in 2023:



https://www.visualcapitalist.com/major-worst-finding-a-job/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are so many things you can do in this world that aren’t engineering. My background fits your description and I work in marketing. I make around $350k. Entry level is about $60k.

Sharp analytical thinkers and storytellers will be needed, even in an AI-driven world.

ESPECIALLY in an AI-driven world. AI is going to replace the coders, not the creatives.

uh no. I have seen AI create art (amazing btw), and write stuff. If AI can code, it can write some marketing blurb.

AI currently regurgitates writing instead of creating original ideas in writing.

I guess we will see if humans want to watch movies and shows created by AI. Only time will tell.

AI generated art and marketing content (which is ephemeral) is way better that AI generated code (which is more permanent).

LOL. I can't speak to the code, but AI generated art and marketing content is all superficial and junk.

And yet, that's what companies are starting to use.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bernardmarr/2023/09/08/the-amazing-ways-coca-cola-uses-generative-ai-in-art-and-advertising/?sh=3b15909b2874

https://www.pecan.ai/blog/companies-using-ai-for-marketing/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are so many things you can do in this world that aren’t engineering. My background fits your description and I work in marketing. I make around $350k. Entry level is about $60k.

Sharp analytical thinkers and storytellers will be needed, even in an AI-driven world.

ESPECIALLY in an AI-driven world. AI is going to replace the coders, not the creatives.

uh no. I have seen AI create art (amazing btw), and write stuff. If AI can code, it can write some marketing blurb.

AI currently regurgitates writing instead of creating original ideas in writing.

I guess we will see if humans want to watch movies and shows created by AI. Only time will tell.

AI generated art and marketing content (which is ephemeral) is way better that AI generated code (which is more permanent).

LOL. I can't speak to the code, but AI generated art and marketing content is all superficial and junk.

Most art and marketing content used to sell products is superficial and junk...what's your point? Nobody said AI is replacing Picasso, but it can likely replace the graphic designer or some creatives that are selling toothpaste or jeans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Slightly off topic, but I think STEM is a bs acronym. It's really TE. No one who uses it is seriously suggesting that people go into Chem, Bio, Environmental Science, Neuroscience, all fields which pay comparable to LA degrees, and even pure math is suspect. People who say 'STEM' want the cloud of prestige that comes with those fields while simultaneously degrading them by holding up initial earnings as the only valid metric.

You didn't support STEM, you support pre professional majors. But that doesn't sound as nice, does it?

Completely agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP seems a bit ignorant of what liberal arts is

Everyone who asks questions like this on this forum is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love all the responses talking about the value of humanities. Of course people that can think, read, write and are actually educated would be valuable in organizations that interact with the actual real world.

Sure, but they usually tend to need graduate degrees to get a good paying job.

OP is asking, "What do liberal arts majors do"? They either get lower paying jobs or go to grad school.

Here's a list of % unemployed/undereployed by majors in 2023:



https://www.visualcapitalist.com/major-worst-finding-a-job/

Doesn't this graphic kind of shut the door on this entire discussion?