Anonymous wrote:OP, I’m in the same spot. Postpartum and now 10-15 lbs from my goal weight, which admittedly would put me at a 21 BMI (currently 22-23). I know people on here flame, but wanting to lose weight to fit into our cultural ideal sucks. Being hungry sucks. I’ve explored my options and found that Ivim would prescribe me 1 month of mounjaro (not even fudging my stats!). So I am considering that. But mainly I am just leaning into being hungry. It’s sad but the only way for many of us to lose (let alone maintain) without drugs. I will probably be hungry the rest of my life until I decide to let it all go!
This is entitled beyond belief. You’re a normal weight, want to be slightly skinnier for purely vanity reasons, and want everyone else to help you pay for it. THIS IS NOT A HEALTH ISSUE. This is not what health insurance is for. If you wanted to fix your saggy pregnancy titties and mom pouch, would you expect insurance to cover that as well?
We didn’t have this obesity problem 30 years ago. Cook your food. Stop buying processed food. Stop wanting to use medication as a crutch. Pay $1K/month to get it. You want insurance to pay, right. That’s what you really meant. Stop stuffing your face. Really exercise. Really.
Anonymous wrote:We didn’t have this obesity problem 30 years ago. Cook your food. Stop buying processed food. Stop wanting to use medication as a crutch. Pay $1K/month to get it. You want insurance to pay, right. That’s what you really meant. Stop stuffing your face. Really exercise. Really.
another super ignorant and uneducated post. Food and lifestyles have changed dramatically over the past 30 years. Yes, of course I want insurance to pay. Why would I not? By your logic insurance should not pay for any medications. They are just crutches and quick fixes after all.
Yup. This trend of salivating for drugs instead of just doing what you’re supposed to be doing is bonkers.
NP. Americans are lazy. They consume high amount of carbs, sugar and calories. They have high cholesterol, pre diabetes or diabetes, but at the same time want to stay thin. Lol
That "lol" at the end really conveyed your point
Presumably you are thin, healthy and smart, so why are you on this thread? Oh I know, because you're just nasty and jealous.
Jealous of what? OP coveting a drug to change their biochemistry to promote weight loss instead of acting like a normal human was designed, which avoids the weight gain in the first place? Or jealous of the other people in this thread that think innovation should be free. I’m sure all those posters also work for free.
Again, why are you here? Just to gloat about how perfect you are. We get it. You are sooooooooo much better than us fatties looking for a drug to fix us. Does that make you feel better?
Its a discussion forum. You know, for discussion.
The suggestion anyone is jealous of any of this is constant, yet exceptionally dumb. Similarly, the entire post's concept reeks of entitlement. Why exactly would a novel pharaceutical that is being now being used beyond its original indication to treat a self-inflicted disease be ready available "for the rest of us" at effectively no cost? How does that make any amount of sense? Do you work for free? The answer is you don't. And, that attitude of entitlement probably landed you in whatever predicament you are in with regard to your weight and lack of self control anyways.
Presumably, people discuss things that affect them or they have experience in. By your own admission this has ZERO bearing on your life, so why are you here if not to shit on people doing their best to lose the weight? Because you are a shit person, an anonymous keyboard warrior sticking it to us fatties on the internet trying to make yourself feel better.
Everything else you said is pure shit and you should read on about these drugs if you wish to "discuss."
I am not the PP with whom you are responding, but I do agree this is a discussion board, and comments like “people doing their best to lose the weight” via a drug is not doing your best. It’s the easy way out. Taking care of your body is a commitment and doesn’t just magically happen with a miracle drug.
I'll tell that to all the people who "aren't doing their best" to get rid of their cancer or to get rid of their migraines. Perhaps they should simply "try harder". Reality is that medications prescribed by doctors is taking good care of one's health. I am taking Wegovy. Because of it, I've been able to eat much healthier, eat far more vegetables, far less sweets and carbs, and control portion size. I've also learned, with the help of a dietician how much protein helps control hunger and to add weight lifting to my routine. The drug is far less a "miracle drug" and more of an assist to help build better habits. We've moralized weight when it doesn't need to be that way. Just as we've learned that alcoholism and drug addiction needs medical interventions, so does weight. It isn't a moral issue. But I guess if you need to think of it that way, go ahead. It's unfortunate that harsh judgemental thinking can't be cured with medication.
Cry me a river.
We've just located the weirdly jealous troller.
Sure, believe what you want. I could care less about your drug. I would rather know that I am self motivated to push myself every day, whether it’s working out hard or playing a team sport to win. I am goal-oriented and put in the work to succeed, which all translates into being successful in life. Why would I be jealous, you troll.
You don't sound very successful or emotionally balanced.
Yup. This trend of salivating for drugs instead of just doing what you’re supposed to be doing is bonkers.
NP. Americans are lazy. They consume high amount of carbs, sugar and calories. They have high cholesterol, pre diabetes or diabetes, but at the same time want to stay thin. Lol
That "lol" at the end really conveyed your point
Presumably you are thin, healthy and smart, so why are you on this thread? Oh I know, because you're just nasty and jealous.
Jealous of what? OP coveting a drug to change their biochemistry to promote weight loss instead of acting like a normal human was designed, which avoids the weight gain in the first place? Or jealous of the other people in this thread that think innovation should be free. I’m sure all those posters also work for free.
Again, why are you here? Just to gloat about how perfect you are. We get it. You are sooooooooo much better than us fatties looking for a drug to fix us. Does that make you feel better?
Its a discussion forum. You know, for discussion.
The suggestion anyone is jealous of any of this is constant, yet exceptionally dumb. Similarly, the entire post's concept reeks of entitlement. Why exactly would a novel pharaceutical that is being now being used beyond its original indication to treat a self-inflicted disease be ready available "for the rest of us" at effectively no cost? How does that make any amount of sense? Do you work for free? The answer is you don't. And, that attitude of entitlement probably landed you in whatever predicament you are in with regard to your weight and lack of self control anyways.
Presumably, people discuss things that affect them or they have experience in. By your own admission this has ZERO bearing on your life, so why are you here if not to shit on people doing their best to lose the weight? Because you are a shit person, an anonymous keyboard warrior sticking it to us fatties on the internet trying to make yourself feel better.
Everything else you said is pure shit and you should read on about these drugs if you wish to "discuss."
I am not the PP with whom you are responding, but I do agree this is a discussion board, and comments like “people doing their best to lose the weight” via a drug is not doing your best. It’s the easy way out. Taking care of your body is a commitment and doesn’t just magically happen with a miracle drug.
I'll tell that to all the people who "aren't doing their best" to get rid of their cancer or to get rid of their migraines. Perhaps they should simply "try harder". Reality is that medications prescribed by doctors is taking good care of one's health. I am taking Wegovy. Because of it, I've been able to eat much healthier, eat far more vegetables, far less sweets and carbs, and control portion size. I've also learned, with the help of a dietician how much protein helps control hunger and to add weight lifting to my routine. The drug is far less a "miracle drug" and more of an assist to help build better habits. We've moralized weight when it doesn't need to be that way. Just as we've learned that alcoholism and drug addiction needs medical interventions, so does weight. It isn't a moral issue. But I guess if you need to think of it that way, go ahead. It's unfortunate that harsh judgemental thinking can't be cured with medication.
+1. I’ve struggled with depression and anxiety on and off since the early 1990s. The anti obesity drug people are using the same rhetoric people used to talk about mental illness 30 years ago. “Just get out of bed.” “Exercise works wonders for mood. Go for a nice long walk.” “If you get dressed and go out, I promise you’ll feel better.” “Just relax. It’s not that bad”. Sure. Why didn’t I think of that. /s. Basically— mental illness is due to a lack of will power. Mental health parity in health insurance wasn’t required until around 2010. Now we still have a generation of people not getting treatment for mental illness because they were taught it was a moral failing they could will themselves out of. Guess what? It’s not, it a biochemical illness. And yes, therapy can help. But for serious issues, medication saves so many lives. Anyone remember Listening to Prozac? At the time, it was every bit the wonder drug GLP-1s are today. It improved and even saved so many lives. And people who took it were every bit as stigmatized.
Then, because we never learn, we did it all again with substance abuse. Opioid abuse is the mental illness with the highest mortality rate— higher than anorexia or schizophrenia, but we tell people that they can cure themselves through sheer willpower. If you aren’t stopping, it’s a moral failing, not a biochemically based illness. And, now, it’s obesity. And yes, some people can do more exercise/fewer calories and make it work. But for most of them (90%+), the weight comes back. And many people can’t get it off at all.
And here’s the sick part. There is less criticism of people so desperate to lose weight that they undergo dangerous surgery and risk lifelong malabsorption and digestive issues by having bariatric surgery than there is of people who take a weekly medication. Why? Because surgery is dangerous and painful and has a hard recovery, so fat people are “paying” for what must be gluttony, because *I’ve* never had a serious weight issue, and everyone else must be just like me. Taking a shot that is much safer but accomplishes the same thing is just too easy. Fat people don’t deserve a safe, effective treatment for obesity. They did this to themselves and they should really physically suffer to treat obesity. Otherwise, how will they see the error of their ways?
It was gross when people judged mental illness as a moral failing. It’s gross when we judge substance addiction as such. And, its gross that you would rather fat people stay fat or undergo a risky surgery than access a safe and effective medication.
There but for the grace of God…
So get on the Health and Medicine Board to voice your concerns.
Yup. This trend of salivating for drugs instead of just doing what you’re supposed to be doing is bonkers.
NP. Americans are lazy. They consume high amount of carbs, sugar and calories. They have high cholesterol, pre diabetes or diabetes, but at the same time want to stay thin. Lol
That "lol" at the end really conveyed your point
Presumably you are thin, healthy and smart, so why are you on this thread? Oh I know, because you're just nasty and jealous.
Jealous of what? OP coveting a drug to change their biochemistry to promote weight loss instead of acting like a normal human was designed, which avoids the weight gain in the first place? Or jealous of the other people in this thread that think innovation should be free. I’m sure all those posters also work for free.
Again, why are you here? Just to gloat about how perfect you are. We get it. You are sooooooooo much better than us fatties looking for a drug to fix us. Does that make you feel better?
Its a discussion forum. You know, for discussion.
The suggestion anyone is jealous of any of this is constant, yet exceptionally dumb. Similarly, the entire post's concept reeks of entitlement. Why exactly would a novel pharaceutical that is being now being used beyond its original indication to treat a self-inflicted disease be ready available "for the rest of us" at effectively no cost? How does that make any amount of sense? Do you work for free? The answer is you don't. And, that attitude of entitlement probably landed you in whatever predicament you are in with regard to your weight and lack of self control anyways.
Presumably, people discuss things that affect them or they have experience in. By your own admission this has ZERO bearing on your life, so why are you here if not to shit on people doing their best to lose the weight? Because you are a shit person, an anonymous keyboard warrior sticking it to us fatties on the internet trying to make yourself feel better.
Everything else you said is pure shit and you should read on about these drugs if you wish to "discuss."
I am not the PP with whom you are responding, but I do agree this is a discussion board, and comments like “people doing their best to lose the weight” via a drug is not doing your best. It’s the easy way out. Taking care of your body is a commitment and doesn’t just magically happen with a miracle drug.
I'll tell that to all the people who "aren't doing their best" to get rid of their cancer or to get rid of their migraines. Perhaps they should simply "try harder". Reality is that medications prescribed by doctors is taking good care of one's health. I am taking Wegovy. Because of it, I've been able to eat much healthier, eat far more vegetables, far less sweets and carbs, and control portion size. I've also learned, with the help of a dietician how much protein helps control hunger and to add weight lifting to my routine. The drug is far less a "miracle drug" and more of an assist to help build better habits. We've moralized weight when it doesn't need to be that way. Just as we've learned that alcoholism and drug addiction needs medical interventions, so does weight. It isn't a moral issue. But I guess if you need to think of it that way, go ahead. It's unfortunate that harsh judgemental thinking can't be cured with medication.
Self inflicted obesity is not in any way remotely like cancer. The victim complex here is ridiculous. I’m sure it’s the food systems fault.
How many cancers are self inflicted by simply doing the job you do or consuming the food you eat or using the products we use?
I mean— many. Lung cancer and smoking obviously. Cervical cancer from contracting HPV, which is an STD. Coal miners and people who work with asbestos get cancer at high rates. Soldiers exposed to Agent Orange on their jobs (after they CHOSE to enlist). Using baby powder was recently linked to mesothelioma FFS. And on and on and on.
Also, the relationship between alcohol use and cancer, including moderate alcohol use.
Yup. This trend of salivating for drugs instead of just doing what you’re supposed to be doing is bonkers.
NP. Americans are lazy. They consume high amount of carbs, sugar and calories. They have high cholesterol, pre diabetes or diabetes, but at the same time want to stay thin. Lol
That "lol" at the end really conveyed your point
Presumably you are thin, healthy and smart, so why are you on this thread? Oh I know, because you're just nasty and jealous.
Jealous of what? OP coveting a drug to change their biochemistry to promote weight loss instead of acting like a normal human was designed, which avoids the weight gain in the first place? Or jealous of the other people in this thread that think innovation should be free. I’m sure all those posters also work for free.
Again, why are you here? Just to gloat about how perfect you are. We get it. You are sooooooooo much better than us fatties looking for a drug to fix us. Does that make you feel better?
Its a discussion forum. You know, for discussion.
The suggestion anyone is jealous of any of this is constant, yet exceptionally dumb. Similarly, the entire post's concept reeks of entitlement. Why exactly would a novel pharaceutical that is being now being used beyond its original indication to treat a self-inflicted disease be ready available "for the rest of us" at effectively no cost? How does that make any amount of sense? Do you work for free? The answer is you don't. And, that attitude of entitlement probably landed you in whatever predicament you are in with regard to your weight and lack of self control anyways.
Presumably, people discuss things that affect them or they have experience in. By your own admission this has ZERO bearing on your life, so why are you here if not to shit on people doing their best to lose the weight? Because you are a shit person, an anonymous keyboard warrior sticking it to us fatties on the internet trying to make yourself feel better.
Everything else you said is pure shit and you should read on about these drugs if you wish to "discuss."
I am not the PP with whom you are responding, but I do agree this is a discussion board, and comments like “people doing their best to lose the weight” via a drug is not doing your best. It’s the easy way out. Taking care of your body is a commitment and doesn’t just magically happen with a miracle drug.
I'll tell that to all the people who "aren't doing their best" to get rid of their cancer or to get rid of their migraines. Perhaps they should simply "try harder". Reality is that medications prescribed by doctors is taking good care of one's health. I am taking Wegovy. Because of it, I've been able to eat much healthier, eat far more vegetables, far less sweets and carbs, and control portion size. I've also learned, with the help of a dietician how much protein helps control hunger and to add weight lifting to my routine. The drug is far less a "miracle drug" and more of an assist to help build better habits. We've moralized weight when it doesn't need to be that way. Just as we've learned that alcoholism and drug addiction needs medical interventions, so does weight. It isn't a moral issue. But I guess if you need to think of it that way, go ahead. It's unfortunate that harsh judgemental thinking can't be cured with medication.
+1. I’ve struggled with depression and anxiety on and off since the early 1990s. The anti obesity drug people are using the same rhetoric people used to talk about mental illness 30 years ago. “Just get out of bed.” “Exercise works wonders for mood. Go for a nice long walk.” “If you get dressed and go out, I promise you’ll feel better.” “Just relax. It’s not that bad”. Sure. Why didn’t I think of that. /s. Basically— mental illness is due to a lack of will power. Mental health parity in health insurance wasn’t required until around 2010. Now we still have a generation of people not getting treatment for mental illness because they were taught it was a moral failing they could will themselves out of. Guess what? It’s not, it a biochemical illness. And yes, therapy can help. But for serious issues, medication saves so many lives. Anyone remember Listening to Prozac? At the time, it was every bit the wonder drug GLP-1s are today. It improved and even saved so many lives. And people who took it were every bit as stigmatized.
Then, because we never learn, we did it all again with substance abuse. Opioid abuse is the mental illness with the highest mortality rate— higher than anorexia or schizophrenia, but we tell people that they can cure themselves through sheer willpower. If you aren’t stopping, it’s a moral failing, not a biochemically based illness. And, now, it’s obesity. And yes, some people can do more exercise/fewer calories and make it work. But for most of them (90%+), the weight comes back. And many people can’t get it off at all.
And here’s the sick part. There is less criticism of people so desperate to lose weight that they undergo dangerous surgery and risk lifelong malabsorption and digestive issues by having bariatric surgery than there is of people who take a weekly medication. Why? Because surgery is dangerous and painful and has a hard recovery, so fat people are “paying” for what must be gluttony, because *I’ve* never had a serious weight issue, and everyone else must be just like me. Taking a shot that is much safer but accomplishes the same thing is just too easy. Fat people don’t deserve a safe, effective treatment for obesity. They did this to themselves and they should really physically suffer to treat obesity. Otherwise, how will they see the error of their ways?
It was gross when people judged mental illness as a moral failing. It’s gross when we judge substance addiction as such. And, its gross that you would rather fat people stay fat or undergo a risky surgery than access a safe and effective medication.
There but for the grace of God…
NP, but telling people the TRUTH, that many of the issues you cited are in fact within your control to manage or cure without any drugs or medical interventions, is NOT the same thing as telling people that suffering from any of those conditions is a moral failing. You are projecting judgement when you are simply being offered good advice.
This is one of my biggest pet peeves on social media. You are not telling THE TRUTH. You are stating your misinformed opinion but you believe in your BS so HARD that you think it's the truth. It's an opinion. An uneducated one. So maybe go get a medical degree, spend a year reading research on these drugs and how to treat obesity and secondary diseases that accompany it, or simply STFU.
I’m sorry, you clearly have a lot more issues than obesity to be so filled with hate and rage. But no, “eating fewer calories than you burn will cause weight loss” is not an opinion, it’s a fact (i.e. truth). “Keeping busy physically to keep you out of your own head all day will help with depression and anxiety” is not an opinion, it’s a fact (i.e. truth). And on and on.
I think the fundamental problem is that when you “try” these things and it’s not an INSTANT fix you decide it “doesn’t work”. That’s why you want pills and injections, because the sustained effort required to deal with these issues yourself is difficult.
PP does not sound filled with hate and rage at all.
Curious, do you have a problem with insurance covering smoking cessation drugs? Why don't the smokers just quit cold turkey and stay off, using will-power? Why should insurance cover these drugs anyway, they just need to try harder.
Yup. This trend of salivating for drugs instead of just doing what you’re supposed to be doing is bonkers.
NP. Americans are lazy. They consume high amount of carbs, sugar and calories. They have high cholesterol, pre diabetes or diabetes, but at the same time want to stay thin. Lol
That "lol" at the end really conveyed your point
Presumably you are thin, healthy and smart, so why are you on this thread? Oh I know, because you're just nasty and jealous.
Jealous of what? OP coveting a drug to change their biochemistry to promote weight loss instead of acting like a normal human was designed, which avoids the weight gain in the first place? Or jealous of the other people in this thread that think innovation should be free. I’m sure all those posters also work for free.
Again, why are you here? Just to gloat about how perfect you are. We get it. You are sooooooooo much better than us fatties looking for a drug to fix us. Does that make you feel better?
Its a discussion forum. You know, for discussion.
The suggestion anyone is jealous of any of this is constant, yet exceptionally dumb. Similarly, the entire post's concept reeks of entitlement. Why exactly would a novel pharaceutical that is being now being used beyond its original indication to treat a self-inflicted disease be ready available "for the rest of us" at effectively no cost? How does that make any amount of sense? Do you work for free? The answer is you don't. And, that attitude of entitlement probably landed you in whatever predicament you are in with regard to your weight and lack of self control anyways.
Presumably, people discuss things that affect them or they have experience in. By your own admission this has ZERO bearing on your life, so why are you here if not to shit on people doing their best to lose the weight? Because you are a shit person, an anonymous keyboard warrior sticking it to us fatties on the internet trying to make yourself feel better.
Everything else you said is pure shit and you should read on about these drugs if you wish to "discuss."
I am not the PP with whom you are responding, but I do agree this is a discussion board, and comments like “people doing their best to lose the weight” via a drug is not doing your best. It’s the easy way out. Taking care of your body is a commitment and doesn’t just magically happen with a miracle drug.
I'll tell that to all the people who "aren't doing their best" to get rid of their cancer or to get rid of their migraines. Perhaps they should simply "try harder". Reality is that medications prescribed by doctors is taking good care of one's health. I am taking Wegovy. Because of it, I've been able to eat much healthier, eat far more vegetables, far less sweets and carbs, and control portion size. I've also learned, with the help of a dietician how much protein helps control hunger and to add weight lifting to my routine. The drug is far less a "miracle drug" and more of an assist to help build better habits. We've moralized weight when it doesn't need to be that way. Just as we've learned that alcoholism and drug addiction needs medical interventions, so does weight. It isn't a moral issue. But I guess if you need to think of it that way, go ahead. It's unfortunate that harsh judgemental thinking can't be cured with medication.
+1. I’ve struggled with depression and anxiety on and off since the early 1990s. The anti obesity drug people are using the same rhetoric people used to talk about mental illness 30 years ago. “Just get out of bed.” “Exercise works wonders for mood. Go for a nice long walk.” “If you get dressed and go out, I promise you’ll feel better.” “Just relax. It’s not that bad”. Sure. Why didn’t I think of that. /s. Basically— mental illness is due to a lack of will power. Mental health parity in health insurance wasn’t required until around 2010. Now we still have a generation of people not getting treatment for mental illness because they were taught it was a moral failing they could will themselves out of. Guess what? It’s not, it a biochemical illness. And yes, therapy can help. But for serious issues, medication saves so many lives. Anyone remember Listening to Prozac? At the time, it was every bit the wonder drug GLP-1s are today. It improved and even saved so many lives. And people who took it were every bit as stigmatized.
Then, because we never learn, we did it all again with substance abuse. Opioid abuse is the mental illness with the highest mortality rate— higher than anorexia or schizophrenia, but we tell people that they can cure themselves through sheer willpower. If you aren’t stopping, it’s a moral failing, not a biochemically based illness. And, now, it’s obesity. And yes, some people can do more exercise/fewer calories and make it work. But for most of them (90%+), the weight comes back. And many people can’t get it off at all.
And here’s the sick part. There is less criticism of people so desperate to lose weight that they undergo dangerous surgery and risk lifelong malabsorption and digestive issues by having bariatric surgery than there is of people who take a weekly medication. Why? Because surgery is dangerous and painful and has a hard recovery, so fat people are “paying” for what must be gluttony, because *I’ve* never had a serious weight issue, and everyone else must be just like me. Taking a shot that is much safer but accomplishes the same thing is just too easy. Fat people don’t deserve a safe, effective treatment for obesity. They did this to themselves and they should really physically suffer to treat obesity. Otherwise, how will they see the error of their ways?
It was gross when people judged mental illness as a moral failing. It’s gross when we judge substance addiction as such. And, its gross that you would rather fat people stay fat or undergo a risky surgery than access a safe and effective medication.
There but for the grace of God…
NP, but telling people the TRUTH, that many of the issues you cited are in fact within your control to manage or cure without any drugs or medical interventions, is NOT the same thing as telling people that suffering from any of those conditions is a moral failing. You are projecting judgement when you are simply being offered good advice.
This is one of my biggest pet peeves on social media. You are not telling THE TRUTH. You are stating your misinformed opinion but you believe in your BS so HARD that you think it's the truth. It's an opinion. An uneducated one. So maybe go get a medical degree, spend a year reading research on these drugs and how to treat obesity and secondary diseases that accompany it, or simply STFU.
I’m sorry, you clearly have a lot more issues than obesity to be so filled with hate and rage. But no, “eating fewer calories than you burn will cause weight loss” is not an opinion, it’s a fact (i.e. truth). “Keeping busy physically to keep you out of your own head all day will help with depression and anxiety” is not an opinion, it’s a fact (i.e. truth). And on and on.
I think the fundamental problem is that when you “try” these things and it’s not an INSTANT fix you decide it “doesn’t work”. That’s why you want pills and injections, because the sustained effort required to deal with these issues yourself is difficult.
DP. You have serious issues with wanting to control other people. My guess is you are projecting. You’re so terrified that you will lose control that you have to lash out at people who are doing something that you cannot admit you want - avail yourself of an easy solution to a problem. At some point you internalized a message that being thin is a moral mandate and it terrifies you to be faced with people who don’t see it that way. Because if you lose the security of knowing you are good because you are thin, what else is left for you?
This is especially scary for those whose only and best accomplishment in life is being thin.
Yup. This trend of salivating for drugs instead of just doing what you’re supposed to be doing is bonkers.
NP. Americans are lazy. They consume high amount of carbs, sugar and calories. They have high cholesterol, pre diabetes or diabetes, but at the same time want to stay thin. Lol
That "lol" at the end really conveyed your point
Presumably you are thin, healthy and smart, so why are you on this thread? Oh I know, because you're just nasty and jealous.
Jealous of what? OP coveting a drug to change their biochemistry to promote weight loss instead of acting like a normal human was designed, which avoids the weight gain in the first place? Or jealous of the other people in this thread that think innovation should be free. I’m sure all those posters also work for free.
Again, why are you here? Just to gloat about how perfect you are. We get it. You are sooooooooo much better than us fatties looking for a drug to fix us. Does that make you feel better?
Its a discussion forum. You know, for discussion.
The suggestion anyone is jealous of any of this is constant, yet exceptionally dumb. Similarly, the entire post's concept reeks of entitlement. Why exactly would a novel pharaceutical that is being now being used beyond its original indication to treat a self-inflicted disease be ready available "for the rest of us" at effectively no cost? How does that make any amount of sense? Do you work for free? The answer is you don't. And, that attitude of entitlement probably landed you in whatever predicament you are in with regard to your weight and lack of self control anyways.
Presumably, people discuss things that affect them or they have experience in. By your own admission this has ZERO bearing on your life, so why are you here if not to shit on people doing their best to lose the weight? Because you are a shit person, an anonymous keyboard warrior sticking it to us fatties on the internet trying to make yourself feel better.
Everything else you said is pure shit and you should read on about these drugs if you wish to "discuss."
I am not the PP with whom you are responding, but I do agree this is a discussion board, and comments like “people doing their best to lose the weight” via a drug is not doing your best. It’s the easy way out. Taking care of your body is a commitment and doesn’t just magically happen with a miracle drug.
I'll tell that to all the people who "aren't doing their best" to get rid of their cancer or to get rid of their migraines. Perhaps they should simply "try harder". Reality is that medications prescribed by doctors is taking good care of one's health. I am taking Wegovy. Because of it, I've been able to eat much healthier, eat far more vegetables, far less sweets and carbs, and control portion size. I've also learned, with the help of a dietician how much protein helps control hunger and to add weight lifting to my routine. The drug is far less a "miracle drug" and more of an assist to help build better habits. We've moralized weight when it doesn't need to be that way. Just as we've learned that alcoholism and drug addiction needs medical interventions, so does weight. It isn't a moral issue. But I guess if you need to think of it that way, go ahead. It's unfortunate that harsh judgemental thinking can't be cured with medication.
+1. I’ve struggled with depression and anxiety on and off since the early 1990s. The anti obesity drug people are using the same rhetoric people used to talk about mental illness 30 years ago. “Just get out of bed.” “Exercise works wonders for mood. Go for a nice long walk.” “If you get dressed and go out, I promise you’ll feel better.” “Just relax. It’s not that bad”. Sure. Why didn’t I think of that. /s. Basically— mental illness is due to a lack of will power. Mental health parity in health insurance wasn’t required until around 2010. Now we still have a generation of people not getting treatment for mental illness because they were taught it was a moral failing they could will themselves out of. Guess what? It’s not, it a biochemical illness. And yes, therapy can help. But for serious issues, medication saves so many lives. Anyone remember Listening to Prozac? At the time, it was every bit the wonder drug GLP-1s are today. It improved and even saved so many lives. And people who took it were every bit as stigmatized.
Then, because we never learn, we did it all again with substance abuse. Opioid abuse is the mental illness with the highest mortality rate— higher than anorexia or schizophrenia, but we tell people that they can cure themselves through sheer willpower. If you aren’t stopping, it’s a moral failing, not a biochemically based illness. And, now, it’s obesity. And yes, some people can do more exercise/fewer calories and make it work. But for most of them (90%+), the weight comes back. And many people can’t get it off at all.
And here’s the sick part. There is less criticism of people so desperate to lose weight that they undergo dangerous surgery and risk lifelong malabsorption and digestive issues by having bariatric surgery than there is of people who take a weekly medication. Why? Because surgery is dangerous and painful and has a hard recovery, so fat people are “paying” for what must be gluttony, because *I’ve* never had a serious weight issue, and everyone else must be just like me. Taking a shot that is much safer but accomplishes the same thing is just too easy. Fat people don’t deserve a safe, effective treatment for obesity. They did this to themselves and they should really physically suffer to treat obesity. Otherwise, how will they see the error of their ways?
It was gross when people judged mental illness as a moral failing. It’s gross when we judge substance addiction as such. And, its gross that you would rather fat people stay fat or undergo a risky surgery than access a safe and effective medication.
There but for the grace of God…
NP, but telling people the TRUTH, that many of the issues you cited are in fact within your control to manage or cure without any drugs or medical interventions, is NOT the same thing as telling people that suffering from any of those conditions is a moral failing. You are projecting judgement when you are simply being offered good advice.
Okay. Here’s my truth.In 2000, before PPD was screened for or treated well (especially in the rural South, where I lived at the time) I had a premie who almost died— more than once, while I stood there. I finally got her home, but literally stopped sleeping at all over a period of months because she was high SIDs risk. I was afraid she would die if I wasn’t watching her 24/7. So I did. And I developed crippling anxiety and depression. But, I kept getting up and caring for my child, because that was my job. Just like you are saying depressed and anxious people should do. I tried to push through. (Plus, there was an ADHD toddler in the mix). And I didn’t tell anyone how bad it was and how in over my head I was, because mothers are supposed to instantly bond with their babies and feel all love and wonder all the time and enjoy every minute. I couldn’t admit out loud that I didn’t feel overwhelming love and awe. I felt crippling anxiety every moment of every day and by month I hated myself more and more because I was a crappy mother— because a good mother wouldn’t pray that her kids would just go away for a week or two so she could sleep and take care of herself. And I loved my kids so much, I knew they deserved amazing parents— so not me. Eventually, I decided that my kids would be better off if I wasn’t there. And better off if I died before they could even remember me, because I was that terrible a parent. So, I celebrate my daughters first birthday. And the next day called in sick with a “migraine”. And took every pill I could find. And woke up three days later on a ventilator. The path back was so long and so hard and the depression was so intense that two years later (after trying so many meds and so much therapy) we seriously considered electroshock therapy.
I could have asked for help months earlier. I could have started medication and therapy 9 months earlier when I realized I had a problem. But I didn’t- because of your TRUTH that anxiety and depression could be managed by sheer willpower and that it was shameful to need medication and therapy and medical interventions because of PPD. After all, love for your children and willpower can solve these issues. I believed that. And when it didn’t, I decided I was so defective that my kids were better off without me. And now, 20+ years later, no one besides my husband, parents, in-laws. And doctors know this about me. Because it’s still shameful to admit you tried kill yourself while parenting young children (and because I would never want my children o know and feel that they in any way, at any point drove to suicide.
So here’s a TRUTH— mental illness, ADHD, substance abuse, obesity — these are not moral failings. They are are usually a combination of bad genetics, difficult circumstances, a person’s environment and biochemical imbalances. And when you say these disease are self inflicted or easily controlled with willpower, people become afraid to admit they need treatment because of the stigma— you would judge them for not just powering through. And because you would rather see people like me die than take advantage of medications like Zoloft and Zepbound and interventions like psychotherapy.
Jesus Christ woman, post partum depression is of course a real (and temporary) condition that is known about and of course needs acute treatment. It’s unfortunate they didn’t screen for it when you needed help (or that you chose not to get screened when you knew you had a problem- your statements are actually contradictory). But your story doesn’t change the fact that the vast majority or people suffering from anxiety or depression are NOT dealing with PPD and would be BETTER OFF making the lifestyle changes that have been discussed. (IOW - *everything* is not about *you*)
And I ALREADY SAID these are not moral failings but you apparently refuse to acknowledge that because you are so determined to be a victim. I also never said that depression and anxiety can be managed through “sheer willpower” or that taking medication is “shameful”. You are putting words in my mouth. Your last paragraph is not only ridiculously over dramatic, it is a really disgusting and unfounded accusation against me (I don’t want to see anyone die, what a nasty, horrible thing to say).
Who are you to say that the “vast majority” of people can just “make lifestyle changes” and cure anxiety and depression? I’d love to see the scientific data you are basing this on.
Yup. This trend of salivating for drugs instead of just doing what you’re supposed to be doing is bonkers.
NP. Americans are lazy. They consume high amount of carbs, sugar and calories. They have high cholesterol, pre diabetes or diabetes, but at the same time want to stay thin. Lol
That "lol" at the end really conveyed your point
Presumably you are thin, healthy and smart, so why are you on this thread? Oh I know, because you're just nasty and jealous.
Jealous of what? OP coveting a drug to change their biochemistry to promote weight loss instead of acting like a normal human was designed, which avoids the weight gain in the first place? Or jealous of the other people in this thread that think innovation should be free. I’m sure all those posters also work for free.
Again, why are you here? Just to gloat about how perfect you are. We get it. You are sooooooooo much better than us fatties looking for a drug to fix us. Does that make you feel better?
Its a discussion forum. You know, for discussion.
The suggestion anyone is jealous of any of this is constant, yet exceptionally dumb. Similarly, the entire post's concept reeks of entitlement. Why exactly would a novel pharaceutical that is being now being used beyond its original indication to treat a self-inflicted disease be ready available "for the rest of us" at effectively no cost? How does that make any amount of sense? Do you work for free? The answer is you don't. And, that attitude of entitlement probably landed you in whatever predicament you are in with regard to your weight and lack of self control anyways.
Presumably, people discuss things that affect them or they have experience in. By your own admission this has ZERO bearing on your life, so why are you here if not to shit on people doing their best to lose the weight? Because you are a shit person, an anonymous keyboard warrior sticking it to us fatties on the internet trying to make yourself feel better.
Everything else you said is pure shit and you should read on about these drugs if you wish to "discuss."
I am not the PP with whom you are responding, but I do agree this is a discussion board, and comments like “people doing their best to lose the weight” via a drug is not doing your best. It’s the easy way out. Taking care of your body is a commitment and doesn’t just magically happen with a miracle drug.
I'll tell that to all the people who "aren't doing their best" to get rid of their cancer or to get rid of their migraines. Perhaps they should simply "try harder". Reality is that medications prescribed by doctors is taking good care of one's health. I am taking Wegovy. Because of it, I've been able to eat much healthier, eat far more vegetables, far less sweets and carbs, and control portion size. I've also learned, with the help of a dietician how much protein helps control hunger and to add weight lifting to my routine. The drug is far less a "miracle drug" and more of an assist to help build better habits. We've moralized weight when it doesn't need to be that way. Just as we've learned that alcoholism and drug addiction needs medical interventions, so does weight. It isn't a moral issue. But I guess if you need to think of it that way, go ahead. It's unfortunate that harsh judgemental thinking can't be cured with medication.
+1. I’ve struggled with depression and anxiety on and off since the early 1990s. The anti obesity drug people are using the same rhetoric people used to talk about mental illness 30 years ago. “Just get out of bed.” “Exercise works wonders for mood. Go for a nice long walk.” “If you get dressed and go out, I promise you’ll feel better.” “Just relax. It’s not that bad”. Sure. Why didn’t I think of that. /s. Basically— mental illness is due to a lack of will power. Mental health parity in health insurance wasn’t required until around 2010. Now we still have a generation of people not getting treatment for mental illness because they were taught it was a moral failing they could will themselves out of. Guess what? It’s not, it a biochemical illness. And yes, therapy can help. But for serious issues, medication saves so many lives. Anyone remember Listening to Prozac? At the time, it was every bit the wonder drug GLP-1s are today. It improved and even saved so many lives. And people who took it were every bit as stigmatized.
Then, because we never learn, we did it all again with substance abuse. Opioid abuse is the mental illness with the highest mortality rate— higher than anorexia or schizophrenia, but we tell people that they can cure themselves through sheer willpower. If you aren’t stopping, it’s a moral failing, not a biochemically based illness. And, now, it’s obesity. And yes, some people can do more exercise/fewer calories and make it work. But for most of them (90%+), the weight comes back. And many people can’t get it off at all.
And here’s the sick part. There is less criticism of people so desperate to lose weight that they undergo dangerous surgery and risk lifelong malabsorption and digestive issues by having bariatric surgery than there is of people who take a weekly medication. Why? Because surgery is dangerous and painful and has a hard recovery, so fat people are “paying” for what must be gluttony, because *I’ve* never had a serious weight issue, and everyone else must be just like me. Taking a shot that is much safer but accomplishes the same thing is just too easy. Fat people don’t deserve a safe, effective treatment for obesity. They did this to themselves and they should really physically suffer to treat obesity. Otherwise, how will they see the error of their ways?
It was gross when people judged mental illness as a moral failing. It’s gross when we judge substance addiction as such. And, its gross that you would rather fat people stay fat or undergo a risky surgery than access a safe and effective medication.
There but for the grace of God…
NP, but telling people the TRUTH, that many of the issues you cited are in fact within your control to manage or cure without any drugs or medical interventions, is NOT the same thing as telling people that suffering from any of those conditions is a moral failing. You are projecting judgement when you are simply being offered good advice.
This is one of my biggest pet peeves on social media. You are not telling THE TRUTH. You are stating your misinformed opinion but you believe in your BS so HARD that you think it's the truth. It's an opinion. An uneducated one. So maybe go get a medical degree, spend a year reading research on these drugs and how to treat obesity and secondary diseases that accompany it, or simply STFU.
I’m sorry, you clearly have a lot more issues than obesity to be so filled with hate and rage. But no, “eating fewer calories than you burn will cause weight loss” is not an opinion, it’s a fact (i.e. truth). “Keeping busy physically to keep you out of your own head all day will help with depression and anxiety” is not an opinion, it’s a fact (i.e. truth). And on and on.
I think the fundamental problem is that when you “try” these things and it’s not an INSTANT fix you decide it “doesn’t work”. That’s why you want pills and injections, because the sustained effort required to deal with these issues yourself is difficult.
DP. You have serious issues with wanting to control other people. My guess is you are projecting. You’re so terrified that you will lose control that you have to lash out at people who are doing something that you cannot admit you want - avail yourself of an easy solution to a problem. At some point you internalized a message that being thin is a moral mandate and it terrifies you to be faced with people who don’t see it that way. Because if you lose the security of knowing you are good because you are thin, what else is left for you?
This is a bizarre response. I’m not trying to control anyone, but I refuse to pretend that obesity is some uncontrollable disease just to protect others’ egos. I’m gaining weight as I age but I know it’s because I’m eating more and moving less than I used to. I don’t feel like a bad person or a moral failure, but I also know d@mn well that my weight gain is 100% my own “fault” and I could lose it if I really wanted to.
Good for you. Now imagine a world here other people’s health, genetics, metabolism and environment aren’t just like yours.
Yup. This trend of salivating for drugs instead of just doing what you’re supposed to be doing is bonkers.
NP. Americans are lazy. They consume high amount of carbs, sugar and calories. They have high cholesterol, pre diabetes or diabetes, but at the same time want to stay thin. Lol
That "lol" at the end really conveyed your point
Presumably you are thin, healthy and smart, so why are you on this thread? Oh I know, because you're just nasty and jealous.
Jealous of what? OP coveting a drug to change their biochemistry to promote weight loss instead of acting like a normal human was designed, which avoids the weight gain in the first place? Or jealous of the other people in this thread that think innovation should be free. I’m sure all those posters also work for free.
Again, why are you here? Just to gloat about how perfect you are. We get it. You are sooooooooo much better than us fatties looking for a drug to fix us. Does that make you feel better?
Its a discussion forum. You know, for discussion.
The suggestion anyone is jealous of any of this is constant, yet exceptionally dumb. Similarly, the entire post's concept reeks of entitlement. Why exactly would a novel pharaceutical that is being now being used beyond its original indication to treat a self-inflicted disease be ready available "for the rest of us" at effectively no cost? How does that make any amount of sense? Do you work for free? The answer is you don't. And, that attitude of entitlement probably landed you in whatever predicament you are in with regard to your weight and lack of self control anyways.
Presumably, people discuss things that affect them or they have experience in. By your own admission this has ZERO bearing on your life, so why are you here if not to shit on people doing their best to lose the weight? Because you are a shit person, an anonymous keyboard warrior sticking it to us fatties on the internet trying to make yourself feel better.
Everything else you said is pure shit and you should read on about these drugs if you wish to "discuss."
I am not the PP with whom you are responding, but I do agree this is a discussion board, and comments like “people doing their best to lose the weight” via a drug is not doing your best. It’s the easy way out. Taking care of your body is a commitment and doesn’t just magically happen with a miracle drug.
I'll tell that to all the people who "aren't doing their best" to get rid of their cancer or to get rid of their migraines. Perhaps they should simply "try harder". Reality is that medications prescribed by doctors is taking good care of one's health. I am taking Wegovy. Because of it, I've been able to eat much healthier, eat far more vegetables, far less sweets and carbs, and control portion size. I've also learned, with the help of a dietician how much protein helps control hunger and to add weight lifting to my routine. The drug is far less a "miracle drug" and more of an assist to help build better habits. We've moralized weight when it doesn't need to be that way. Just as we've learned that alcoholism and drug addiction needs medical interventions, so does weight. It isn't a moral issue. But I guess if you need to think of it that way, go ahead. It's unfortunate that harsh judgemental thinking can't be cured with medication.
+1. I’ve struggled with depression and anxiety on and off since the early 1990s. The anti obesity drug people are using the same rhetoric people used to talk about mental illness 30 years ago. “Just get out of bed.” “Exercise works wonders for mood. Go for a nice long walk.” “If you get dressed and go out, I promise you’ll feel better.” “Just relax. It’s not that bad”. Sure. Why didn’t I think of that. /s. Basically— mental illness is due to a lack of will power. Mental health parity in health insurance wasn’t required until around 2010. Now we still have a generation of people not getting treatment for mental illness because they were taught it was a moral failing they could will themselves out of. Guess what? It’s not, it a biochemical illness. And yes, therapy can help. But for serious issues, medication saves so many lives. Anyone remember Listening to Prozac? At the time, it was every bit the wonder drug GLP-1s are today. It improved and even saved so many lives. And people who took it were every bit as stigmatized.
Then, because we never learn, we did it all again with substance abuse. Opioid abuse is the mental illness with the highest mortality rate— higher than anorexia or schizophrenia, but we tell people that they can cure themselves through sheer willpower. If you aren’t stopping, it’s a moral failing, not a biochemically based illness. And, now, it’s obesity. And yes, some people can do more exercise/fewer calories and make it work. But for most of them (90%+), the weight comes back. And many people can’t get it off at all.
And here’s the sick part. There is less criticism of people so desperate to lose weight that they undergo dangerous surgery and risk lifelong malabsorption and digestive issues by having bariatric surgery than there is of people who take a weekly medication. Why? Because surgery is dangerous and painful and has a hard recovery, so fat people are “paying” for what must be gluttony, because *I’ve* never had a serious weight issue, and everyone else must be just like me. Taking a shot that is much safer but accomplishes the same thing is just too easy. Fat people don’t deserve a safe, effective treatment for obesity. They did this to themselves and they should really physically suffer to treat obesity. Otherwise, how will they see the error of their ways?
It was gross when people judged mental illness as a moral failing. It’s gross when we judge substance addiction as such. And, its gross that you would rather fat people stay fat or undergo a risky surgery than access a safe and effective medication.
There but for the grace of God…
NP, but telling people the TRUTH, that many of the issues you cited are in fact within your control to manage or cure without any drugs or medical interventions, is NOT the same thing as telling people that suffering from any of those conditions is a moral failing. You are projecting judgement when you are simply being offered good advice.
Okay. Here’s my truth.In 2000, before PPD was screened for or treated well (especially in the rural South, where I lived at the time) I had a premie who almost died— more than once, while I stood there. I finally got her home, but literally stopped sleeping at all over a period of months because she was high SIDs risk. I was afraid she would die if I wasn’t watching her 24/7. So I did. And I developed crippling anxiety and depression. But, I kept getting up and caring for my child, because that was my job. Just like you are saying depressed and anxious people should do. I tried to push through. (Plus, there was an ADHD toddler in the mix). And I didn’t tell anyone how bad it was and how in over my head I was, because mothers are supposed to instantly bond with their babies and feel all love and wonder all the time and enjoy every minute. I couldn’t admit out loud that I didn’t feel overwhelming love and awe. I felt crippling anxiety every moment of every day and by month I hated myself more and more because I was a crappy mother— because a good mother wouldn’t pray that her kids would just go away for a week or two so she could sleep and take care of herself. And I loved my kids so much, I knew they deserved amazing parents— so not me. Eventually, I decided that my kids would be better off if I wasn’t there. And better off if I died before they could even remember me, because I was that terrible a parent. So, I celebrate my daughters first birthday. And the next day called in sick with a “migraine”. And took every pill I could find. And woke up three days later on a ventilator. The path back was so long and so hard and the depression was so intense that two years later (after trying so many meds and so much therapy) we seriously considered electroshock therapy.
I could have asked for help months earlier. I could have started medication and therapy 9 months earlier when I realized I had a problem. But I didn’t- because of your TRUTH that anxiety and depression could be managed by sheer willpower and that it was shameful to need medication and therapy and medical interventions because of PPD. After all, love for your children and willpower can solve these issues. I believed that. And when it didn’t, I decided I was so defective that my kids were better off without me. And now, 20+ years later, no one besides my husband, parents, in-laws. And doctors know this about me. Because it’s still shameful to admit you tried kill yourself while parenting young children (and because I would never want my children o know and feel that they in any way, at any point drove to suicide.
So here’s a TRUTH— mental illness, ADHD, substance abuse, obesity — these are not moral failings. They are are usually a combination of bad genetics, difficult circumstances, a person’s environment and biochemical imbalances. And when you say these disease are self inflicted or easily controlled with willpower, people become afraid to admit they need treatment because of the stigma— you would judge them for not just powering through. And because you would rather see people like me die than take advantage of medications like Zoloft and Zepbound and interventions like psychotherapy.
Jesus Christ woman, post partum depression is of course a real (and temporary) condition that is known about and of course needs acute treatment. It’s unfortunate they didn’t screen for it when you needed help (or that you chose not to get screened when you knew you had a problem- your statements are actually contradictory). But your story doesn’t change the fact that the vast majority or people suffering from anxiety or depression are NOT dealing with PPD and would be BETTER OFF making the lifestyle changes that have been discussed. (IOW - *everything* is not about *you*)
And I ALREADY SAID these are not moral failings but you apparently refuse to acknowledge that because you are so determined to be a victim. I also never said that depression and anxiety can be managed through “sheer willpower” or that taking medication is “shameful”. You are putting words in my mouth. Your last paragraph is not only ridiculously over dramatic, it is a really disgusting and unfounded accusation against me (I don’t want to see anyone die, what a nasty, horrible thing to say).
Who are you to say that the “vast majority” of people can just “make lifestyle changes” and cure anxiety and depression? I’d love to see the scientific data you are basing this on.
Be honest. No you wouldn’t. It’s easier to keep your head in the sand and take no responsibility.
Yup. This trend of salivating for drugs instead of just doing what you’re supposed to be doing is bonkers.
NP. Americans are lazy. They consume high amount of carbs, sugar and calories. They have high cholesterol, pre diabetes or diabetes, but at the same time want to stay thin. Lol
That "lol" at the end really conveyed your point
Presumably you are thin, healthy and smart, so why are you on this thread? Oh I know, because you're just nasty and jealous.
Jealous of what? OP coveting a drug to change their biochemistry to promote weight loss instead of acting like a normal human was designed, which avoids the weight gain in the first place? Or jealous of the other people in this thread that think innovation should be free. I’m sure all those posters also work for free.
Again, why are you here? Just to gloat about how perfect you are. We get it. You are sooooooooo much better than us fatties looking for a drug to fix us. Does that make you feel better?
Its a discussion forum. You know, for discussion.
The suggestion anyone is jealous of any of this is constant, yet exceptionally dumb. Similarly, the entire post's concept reeks of entitlement. Why exactly would a novel pharaceutical that is being now being used beyond its original indication to treat a self-inflicted disease be ready available "for the rest of us" at effectively no cost? How does that make any amount of sense? Do you work for free? The answer is you don't. And, that attitude of entitlement probably landed you in whatever predicament you are in with regard to your weight and lack of self control anyways.
Presumably, people discuss things that affect them or they have experience in. By your own admission this has ZERO bearing on your life, so why are you here if not to shit on people doing their best to lose the weight? Because you are a shit person, an anonymous keyboard warrior sticking it to us fatties on the internet trying to make yourself feel better.
Everything else you said is pure shit and you should read on about these drugs if you wish to "discuss."
I am not the PP with whom you are responding, but I do agree this is a discussion board, and comments like “people doing their best to lose the weight” via a drug is not doing your best. It’s the easy way out. Taking care of your body is a commitment and doesn’t just magically happen with a miracle drug.
I'll tell that to all the people who "aren't doing their best" to get rid of their cancer or to get rid of their migraines. Perhaps they should simply "try harder". Reality is that medications prescribed by doctors is taking good care of one's health. I am taking Wegovy. Because of it, I've been able to eat much healthier, eat far more vegetables, far less sweets and carbs, and control portion size. I've also learned, with the help of a dietician how much protein helps control hunger and to add weight lifting to my routine. The drug is far less a "miracle drug" and more of an assist to help build better habits. We've moralized weight when it doesn't need to be that way. Just as we've learned that alcoholism and drug addiction needs medical interventions, so does weight. It isn't a moral issue. But I guess if you need to think of it that way, go ahead. It's unfortunate that harsh judgemental thinking can't be cured with medication.
+1. I’ve struggled with depression and anxiety on and off since the early 1990s. The anti obesity drug people are using the same rhetoric people used to talk about mental illness 30 years ago. “Just get out of bed.” “Exercise works wonders for mood. Go for a nice long walk.” “If you get dressed and go out, I promise you’ll feel better.” “Just relax. It’s not that bad”. Sure. Why didn’t I think of that. /s. Basically— mental illness is due to a lack of will power. Mental health parity in health insurance wasn’t required until around 2010. Now we still have a generation of people not getting treatment for mental illness because they were taught it was a moral failing they could will themselves out of. Guess what? It’s not, it a biochemical illness. And yes, therapy can help. But for serious issues, medication saves so many lives. Anyone remember Listening to Prozac? At the time, it was every bit the wonder drug GLP-1s are today. It improved and even saved so many lives. And people who took it were every bit as stigmatized.
Then, because we never learn, we did it all again with substance abuse. Opioid abuse is the mental illness with the highest mortality rate— higher than anorexia or schizophrenia, but we tell people that they can cure themselves through sheer willpower. If you aren’t stopping, it’s a moral failing, not a biochemically based illness. And, now, it’s obesity. And yes, some people can do more exercise/fewer calories and make it work. But for most of them (90%+), the weight comes back. And many people can’t get it off at all.
And here’s the sick part. There is less criticism of people so desperate to lose weight that they undergo dangerous surgery and risk lifelong malabsorption and digestive issues by having bariatric surgery than there is of people who take a weekly medication. Why? Because surgery is dangerous and painful and has a hard recovery, so fat people are “paying” for what must be gluttony, because *I’ve* never had a serious weight issue, and everyone else must be just like me. Taking a shot that is much safer but accomplishes the same thing is just too easy. Fat people don’t deserve a safe, effective treatment for obesity. They did this to themselves and they should really physically suffer to treat obesity. Otherwise, how will they see the error of their ways?
It was gross when people judged mental illness as a moral failing. It’s gross when we judge substance addiction as such. And, its gross that you would rather fat people stay fat or undergo a risky surgery than access a safe and effective medication.
There but for the grace of God…
NP, but telling people the TRUTH, that many of the issues you cited are in fact within your control to manage or cure without any drugs or medical interventions, is NOT the same thing as telling people that suffering from any of those conditions is a moral failing. You are projecting judgement when you are simply being offered good advice.
Okay. Here’s my truth.In 2000, before PPD was screened for or treated well (especially in the rural South, where I lived at the time) I had a premie who almost died— more than once, while I stood there. I finally got her home, but literally stopped sleeping at all over a period of months because she was high SIDs risk. I was afraid she would die if I wasn’t watching her 24/7. So I did. And I developed crippling anxiety and depression. But, I kept getting up and caring for my child, because that was my job. Just like you are saying depressed and anxious people should do. I tried to push through. (Plus, there was an ADHD toddler in the mix). And I didn’t tell anyone how bad it was and how in over my head I was, because mothers are supposed to instantly bond with their babies and feel all love and wonder all the time and enjoy every minute. I couldn’t admit out loud that I didn’t feel overwhelming love and awe. I felt crippling anxiety every moment of every day and by month I hated myself more and more because I was a crappy mother— because a good mother wouldn’t pray that her kids would just go away for a week or two so she could sleep and take care of herself. And I loved my kids so much, I knew they deserved amazing parents— so not me. Eventually, I decided that my kids would be better off if I wasn’t there. And better off if I died before they could even remember me, because I was that terrible a parent. So, I celebrate my daughters first birthday. And the next day called in sick with a “migraine”. And took every pill I could find. And woke up three days later on a ventilator. The path back was so long and so hard and the depression was so intense that two years later (after trying so many meds and so much therapy) we seriously considered electroshock therapy.
I could have asked for help months earlier. I could have started medication and therapy 9 months earlier when I realized I had a problem. But I didn’t- because of your TRUTH that anxiety and depression could be managed by sheer willpower and that it was shameful to need medication and therapy and medical interventions because of PPD. After all, love for your children and willpower can solve these issues. I believed that. And when it didn’t, I decided I was so defective that my kids were better off without me. And now, 20+ years later, no one besides my husband, parents, in-laws. And doctors know this about me. Because it’s still shameful to admit you tried kill yourself while parenting young children (and because I would never want my children o know and feel that they in any way, at any point drove to suicide.
So here’s a TRUTH— mental illness, ADHD, substance abuse, obesity — these are not moral failings. They are are usually a combination of bad genetics, difficult circumstances, a person’s environment and biochemical imbalances. And when you say these disease are self inflicted or easily controlled with willpower, people become afraid to admit they need treatment because of the stigma— you would judge them for not just powering through. And because you would rather see people like me die than take advantage of medications like Zoloft and Zepbound and interventions like psychotherapy.
Jesus Christ woman, post partum depression is of course a real (and temporary) condition that is known about and of course needs acute treatment. It’s unfortunate they didn’t screen for it when you needed help (or that you chose not to get screened when you knew you had a problem- your statements are actually contradictory). But your story doesn’t change the fact that the vast majority or people suffering from anxiety or depression are NOT dealing with PPD and would be BETTER OFF making the lifestyle changes that have been discussed. (IOW - *everything* is not about *you*)
And I ALREADY SAID these are not moral failings but you apparently refuse to acknowledge that because you are so determined to be a victim. I also never said that depression and anxiety can be managed through “sheer willpower” or that taking medication is “shameful”. You are putting words in my mouth. Your last paragraph is not only ridiculously over dramatic, it is a really disgusting and unfounded accusation against me (I don’t want to see anyone die, what a nasty, horrible thing to say).
Who are you to say that the “vast majority” of people can just “make lifestyle changes” and cure anxiety and depression? I’d love to see the scientific data you are basing this on.
Be honest. No you wouldn’t. It’s easier to keep your head in the sand and take no responsibility.
I love it when people make claims they can't support with data. Stop gaslighting and post some links.
Yup. This trend of salivating for drugs instead of just doing what you’re supposed to be doing is bonkers.
NP. Americans are lazy. They consume high amount of carbs, sugar and calories. They have high cholesterol, pre diabetes or diabetes, but at the same time want to stay thin. Lol
That "lol" at the end really conveyed your point
Presumably you are thin, healthy and smart, so why are you on this thread? Oh I know, because you're just nasty and jealous.
Jealous of what? OP coveting a drug to change their biochemistry to promote weight loss instead of acting like a normal human was designed, which avoids the weight gain in the first place? Or jealous of the other people in this thread that think innovation should be free. I’m sure all those posters also work for free.
Again, why are you here? Just to gloat about how perfect you are. We get it. You are sooooooooo much better than us fatties looking for a drug to fix us. Does that make you feel better?
Its a discussion forum. You know, for discussion.
The suggestion anyone is jealous of any of this is constant, yet exceptionally dumb. Similarly, the entire post's concept reeks of entitlement. Why exactly would a novel pharaceutical that is being now being used beyond its original indication to treat a self-inflicted disease be ready available "for the rest of us" at effectively no cost? How does that make any amount of sense? Do you work for free? The answer is you don't. And, that attitude of entitlement probably landed you in whatever predicament you are in with regard to your weight and lack of self control anyways.
Presumably, people discuss things that affect them or they have experience in. By your own admission this has ZERO bearing on your life, so why are you here if not to shit on people doing their best to lose the weight? Because you are a shit person, an anonymous keyboard warrior sticking it to us fatties on the internet trying to make yourself feel better.
Everything else you said is pure shit and you should read on about these drugs if you wish to "discuss."
I am not the PP with whom you are responding, but I do agree this is a discussion board, and comments like “people doing their best to lose the weight” via a drug is not doing your best. It’s the easy way out. Taking care of your body is a commitment and doesn’t just magically happen with a miracle drug.
I'll tell that to all the people who "aren't doing their best" to get rid of their cancer or to get rid of their migraines. Perhaps they should simply "try harder". Reality is that medications prescribed by doctors is taking good care of one's health. I am taking Wegovy. Because of it, I've been able to eat much healthier, eat far more vegetables, far less sweets and carbs, and control portion size. I've also learned, with the help of a dietician how much protein helps control hunger and to add weight lifting to my routine. The drug is far less a "miracle drug" and more of an assist to help build better habits. We've moralized weight when it doesn't need to be that way. Just as we've learned that alcoholism and drug addiction needs medical interventions, so does weight. It isn't a moral issue. But I guess if you need to think of it that way, go ahead. It's unfortunate that harsh judgemental thinking can't be cured with medication.
+1. I’ve struggled with depression and anxiety on and off since the early 1990s. The anti obesity drug people are using the same rhetoric people used to talk about mental illness 30 years ago. “Just get out of bed.” “Exercise works wonders for mood. Go for a nice long walk.” “If you get dressed and go out, I promise you’ll feel better.” “Just relax. It’s not that bad”. Sure. Why didn’t I think of that. /s. Basically— mental illness is due to a lack of will power. Mental health parity in health insurance wasn’t required until around 2010. Now we still have a generation of people not getting treatment for mental illness because they were taught it was a moral failing they could will themselves out of. Guess what? It’s not, it a biochemical illness. And yes, therapy can help. But for serious issues, medication saves so many lives. Anyone remember Listening to Prozac? At the time, it was every bit the wonder drug GLP-1s are today. It improved and even saved so many lives. And people who took it were every bit as stigmatized.
Then, because we never learn, we did it all again with substance abuse. Opioid abuse is the mental illness with the highest mortality rate— higher than anorexia or schizophrenia, but we tell people that they can cure themselves through sheer willpower. If you aren’t stopping, it’s a moral failing, not a biochemically based illness. And, now, it’s obesity. And yes, some people can do more exercise/fewer calories and make it work. But for most of them (90%+), the weight comes back. And many people can’t get it off at all.
And here’s the sick part. There is less criticism of people so desperate to lose weight that they undergo dangerous surgery and risk lifelong malabsorption and digestive issues by having bariatric surgery than there is of people who take a weekly medication. Why? Because surgery is dangerous and painful and has a hard recovery, so fat people are “paying” for what must be gluttony, because *I’ve* never had a serious weight issue, and everyone else must be just like me. Taking a shot that is much safer but accomplishes the same thing is just too easy. Fat people don’t deserve a safe, effective treatment for obesity. They did this to themselves and they should really physically suffer to treat obesity. Otherwise, how will they see the error of their ways?
It was gross when people judged mental illness as a moral failing. It’s gross when we judge substance addiction as such. And, its gross that you would rather fat people stay fat or undergo a risky surgery than access a safe and effective medication.
There but for the grace of God…
NP, but telling people the TRUTH, that many of the issues you cited are in fact within your control to manage or cure without any drugs or medical interventions, is NOT the same thing as telling people that suffering from any of those conditions is a moral failing. You are projecting judgement when you are simply being offered good advice.
This is one of my biggest pet peeves on social media. You are not telling THE TRUTH. You are stating your misinformed opinion but you believe in your BS so HARD that you think it's the truth. It's an opinion. An uneducated one. So maybe go get a medical degree, spend a year reading research on these drugs and how to treat obesity and secondary diseases that accompany it, or simply STFU.
I’m sorry, you clearly have a lot more issues than obesity to be so filled with hate and rage. But no, “eating fewer calories than you burn will cause weight loss” is not an opinion, it’s a fact (i.e. truth). “Keeping busy physically to keep you out of your own head all day will help with depression and anxiety” is not an opinion, it’s a fact (i.e. truth). And on and on.
I think the fundamental problem is that when you “try” these things and it’s not an INSTANT fix you decide it “doesn’t work”. That’s why you want pills and injections, because the sustained effort required to deal with these issues yourself is difficult.
DP. You have serious issues with wanting to control other people. My guess is you are projecting. You’re so terrified that you will lose control that you have to lash out at people who are doing something that you cannot admit you want - avail yourself of an easy solution to a problem. At some point you internalized a message that being thin is a moral mandate and it terrifies you to be faced with people who don’t see it that way. Because if you lose the security of knowing you are good because you are thin, what else is left for you?
This is a bizarre response. I’m not trying to control anyone, but I refuse to pretend that obesity is some uncontrollable disease just to protect others’ egos. I’m gaining weight as I age but I know it’s because I’m eating more and moving less than I used to. I don’t feel like a bad person or a moral failure, but I also know d@mn well that my weight gain is 100% my own “fault” and I could lose it if I really wanted to.
Good for you. Now imagine a world here other people’s health, genetics, metabolism and environment aren’t just like yours.
With vanishingly few exceptions, human bodies function in fundamentally the same way all over the world. You are not a medical marvel. You are not special.
Yup. This trend of salivating for drugs instead of just doing what you’re supposed to be doing is bonkers.
NP. Americans are lazy. They consume high amount of carbs, sugar and calories. They have high cholesterol, pre diabetes or diabetes, but at the same time want to stay thin. Lol
That "lol" at the end really conveyed your point
Presumably you are thin, healthy and smart, so why are you on this thread? Oh I know, because you're just nasty and jealous.
Jealous of what? OP coveting a drug to change their biochemistry to promote weight loss instead of acting like a normal human was designed, which avoids the weight gain in the first place? Or jealous of the other people in this thread that think innovation should be free. I’m sure all those posters also work for free.
Again, why are you here? Just to gloat about how perfect you are. We get it. You are sooooooooo much better than us fatties looking for a drug to fix us. Does that make you feel better?
Its a discussion forum. You know, for discussion.
The suggestion anyone is jealous of any of this is constant, yet exceptionally dumb. Similarly, the entire post's concept reeks of entitlement. Why exactly would a novel pharaceutical that is being now being used beyond its original indication to treat a self-inflicted disease be ready available "for the rest of us" at effectively no cost? How does that make any amount of sense? Do you work for free? The answer is you don't. And, that attitude of entitlement probably landed you in whatever predicament you are in with regard to your weight and lack of self control anyways.
Presumably, people discuss things that affect them or they have experience in. By your own admission this has ZERO bearing on your life, so why are you here if not to shit on people doing their best to lose the weight? Because you are a shit person, an anonymous keyboard warrior sticking it to us fatties on the internet trying to make yourself feel better.
Everything else you said is pure shit and you should read on about these drugs if you wish to "discuss."
I am not the PP with whom you are responding, but I do agree this is a discussion board, and comments like “people doing their best to lose the weight” via a drug is not doing your best. It’s the easy way out. Taking care of your body is a commitment and doesn’t just magically happen with a miracle drug.
I'll tell that to all the people who "aren't doing their best" to get rid of their cancer or to get rid of their migraines. Perhaps they should simply "try harder". Reality is that medications prescribed by doctors is taking good care of one's health. I am taking Wegovy. Because of it, I've been able to eat much healthier, eat far more vegetables, far less sweets and carbs, and control portion size. I've also learned, with the help of a dietician how much protein helps control hunger and to add weight lifting to my routine. The drug is far less a "miracle drug" and more of an assist to help build better habits. We've moralized weight when it doesn't need to be that way. Just as we've learned that alcoholism and drug addiction needs medical interventions, so does weight. It isn't a moral issue. But I guess if you need to think of it that way, go ahead. It's unfortunate that harsh judgemental thinking can't be cured with medication.
+1. I’ve struggled with depression and anxiety on and off since the early 1990s. The anti obesity drug people are using the same rhetoric people used to talk about mental illness 30 years ago. “Just get out of bed.” “Exercise works wonders for mood. Go for a nice long walk.” “If you get dressed and go out, I promise you’ll feel better.” “Just relax. It’s not that bad”. Sure. Why didn’t I think of that. /s. Basically— mental illness is due to a lack of will power. Mental health parity in health insurance wasn’t required until around 2010. Now we still have a generation of people not getting treatment for mental illness because they were taught it was a moral failing they could will themselves out of. Guess what? It’s not, it a biochemical illness. And yes, therapy can help. But for serious issues, medication saves so many lives. Anyone remember Listening to Prozac? At the time, it was every bit the wonder drug GLP-1s are today. It improved and even saved so many lives. And people who took it were every bit as stigmatized.
Then, because we never learn, we did it all again with substance abuse. Opioid abuse is the mental illness with the highest mortality rate— higher than anorexia or schizophrenia, but we tell people that they can cure themselves through sheer willpower. If you aren’t stopping, it’s a moral failing, not a biochemically based illness. And, now, it’s obesity. And yes, some people can do more exercise/fewer calories and make it work. But for most of them (90%+), the weight comes back. And many people can’t get it off at all.
And here’s the sick part. There is less criticism of people so desperate to lose weight that they undergo dangerous surgery and risk lifelong malabsorption and digestive issues by having bariatric surgery than there is of people who take a weekly medication. Why? Because surgery is dangerous and painful and has a hard recovery, so fat people are “paying” for what must be gluttony, because *I’ve* never had a serious weight issue, and everyone else must be just like me. Taking a shot that is much safer but accomplishes the same thing is just too easy. Fat people don’t deserve a safe, effective treatment for obesity. They did this to themselves and they should really physically suffer to treat obesity. Otherwise, how will they see the error of their ways?
It was gross when people judged mental illness as a moral failing. It’s gross when we judge substance addiction as such. And, its gross that you would rather fat people stay fat or undergo a risky surgery than access a safe and effective medication.
There but for the grace of God…
NP, but telling people the TRUTH, that many of the issues you cited are in fact within your control to manage or cure without any drugs or medical interventions, is NOT the same thing as telling people that suffering from any of those conditions is a moral failing. You are projecting judgement when you are simply being offered good advice.
Okay. Here’s my truth.In 2000, before PPD was screened for or treated well (especially in the rural South, where I lived at the time) I had a premie who almost died— more than once, while I stood there. I finally got her home, but literally stopped sleeping at all over a period of months because she was high SIDs risk. I was afraid she would die if I wasn’t watching her 24/7. So I did. And I developed crippling anxiety and depression. But, I kept getting up and caring for my child, because that was my job. Just like you are saying depressed and anxious people should do. I tried to push through. (Plus, there was an ADHD toddler in the mix). And I didn’t tell anyone how bad it was and how in over my head I was, because mothers are supposed to instantly bond with their babies and feel all love and wonder all the time and enjoy every minute. I couldn’t admit out loud that I didn’t feel overwhelming love and awe. I felt crippling anxiety every moment of every day and by month I hated myself more and more because I was a crappy mother— because a good mother wouldn’t pray that her kids would just go away for a week or two so she could sleep and take care of herself. And I loved my kids so much, I knew they deserved amazing parents— so not me. Eventually, I decided that my kids would be better off if I wasn’t there. And better off if I died before they could even remember me, because I was that terrible a parent. So, I celebrate my daughters first birthday. And the next day called in sick with a “migraine”. And took every pill I could find. And woke up three days later on a ventilator. The path back was so long and so hard and the depression was so intense that two years later (after trying so many meds and so much therapy) we seriously considered electroshock therapy.
I could have asked for help months earlier. I could have started medication and therapy 9 months earlier when I realized I had a problem. But I didn’t- because of your TRUTH that anxiety and depression could be managed by sheer willpower and that it was shameful to need medication and therapy and medical interventions because of PPD. After all, love for your children and willpower can solve these issues. I believed that. And when it didn’t, I decided I was so defective that my kids were better off without me. And now, 20+ years later, no one besides my husband, parents, in-laws. And doctors know this about me. Because it’s still shameful to admit you tried kill yourself while parenting young children (and because I would never want my children o know and feel that they in any way, at any point drove to suicide.
So here’s a TRUTH— mental illness, ADHD, substance abuse, obesity — these are not moral failings. They are are usually a combination of bad genetics, difficult circumstances, a person’s environment and biochemical imbalances. And when you say these disease are self inflicted or easily controlled with willpower, people become afraid to admit they need treatment because of the stigma— you would judge them for not just powering through. And because you would rather see people like me die than take advantage of medications like Zoloft and Zepbound and interventions like psychotherapy.
Jesus Christ woman, post partum depression is of course a real (and temporary) condition that is known about and of course needs acute treatment. It’s unfortunate they didn’t screen for it when you needed help (or that you chose not to get screened when you knew you had a problem- your statements are actually contradictory). But your story doesn’t change the fact that the vast majority or people suffering from anxiety or depression are NOT dealing with PPD and would be BETTER OFF making the lifestyle changes that have been discussed. (IOW - *everything* is not about *you*)
And I ALREADY SAID these are not moral failings but you apparently refuse to acknowledge that because you are so determined to be a victim. I also never said that depression and anxiety can be managed through “sheer willpower” or that taking medication is “shameful”. You are putting words in my mouth. Your last paragraph is not only ridiculously over dramatic, it is a really disgusting and unfounded accusation against me (I don’t want to see anyone die, what a nasty, horrible thing to say).
Who are you to say that the “vast majority” of people can just “make lifestyle changes” and cure anxiety and depression? I’d love to see the scientific data you are basing this on.
Be honest. No you wouldn’t. It’s easier to keep your head in the sand and take no responsibility.
I love it when people make claims they can't support with data. Stop gaslighting and post some links.
I love it when people think that others who have acquired knowledge through decades of study and experience have “links” ready to be offered up on command. But I suppose it’s typical that you want a “quick fix” and you want someone else to serve it to you on a silver platter.
I guess there is some merit to that saying “how you do anything is how you do everything” after all.
Yup. This trend of salivating for drugs instead of just doing what you’re supposed to be doing is bonkers.
NP. Americans are lazy. They consume high amount of carbs, sugar and calories. They have high cholesterol, pre diabetes or diabetes, but at the same time want to stay thin. Lol
That "lol" at the end really conveyed your point
Presumably you are thin, healthy and smart, so why are you on this thread? Oh I know, because you're just nasty and jealous.
Jealous of what? OP coveting a drug to change their biochemistry to promote weight loss instead of acting like a normal human was designed, which avoids the weight gain in the first place? Or jealous of the other people in this thread that think innovation should be free. I’m sure all those posters also work for free.
Again, why are you here? Just to gloat about how perfect you are. We get it. You are sooooooooo much better than us fatties looking for a drug to fix us. Does that make you feel better?
Its a discussion forum. You know, for discussion.
The suggestion anyone is jealous of any of this is constant, yet exceptionally dumb. Similarly, the entire post's concept reeks of entitlement. Why exactly would a novel pharaceutical that is being now being used beyond its original indication to treat a self-inflicted disease be ready available "for the rest of us" at effectively no cost? How does that make any amount of sense? Do you work for free? The answer is you don't. And, that attitude of entitlement probably landed you in whatever predicament you are in with regard to your weight and lack of self control anyways.
Presumably, people discuss things that affect them or they have experience in. By your own admission this has ZERO bearing on your life, so why are you here if not to shit on people doing their best to lose the weight? Because you are a shit person, an anonymous keyboard warrior sticking it to us fatties on the internet trying to make yourself feel better.
Everything else you said is pure shit and you should read on about these drugs if you wish to "discuss."
I am not the PP with whom you are responding, but I do agree this is a discussion board, and comments like “people doing their best to lose the weight” via a drug is not doing your best. It’s the easy way out. Taking care of your body is a commitment and doesn’t just magically happen with a miracle drug.
I'll tell that to all the people who "aren't doing their best" to get rid of their cancer or to get rid of their migraines. Perhaps they should simply "try harder". Reality is that medications prescribed by doctors is taking good care of one's health. I am taking Wegovy. Because of it, I've been able to eat much healthier, eat far more vegetables, far less sweets and carbs, and control portion size. I've also learned, with the help of a dietician how much protein helps control hunger and to add weight lifting to my routine. The drug is far less a "miracle drug" and more of an assist to help build better habits. We've moralized weight when it doesn't need to be that way. Just as we've learned that alcoholism and drug addiction needs medical interventions, so does weight. It isn't a moral issue. But I guess if you need to think of it that way, go ahead. It's unfortunate that harsh judgemental thinking can't be cured with medication.
+1. I’ve struggled with depression and anxiety on and off since the early 1990s. The anti obesity drug people are using the same rhetoric people used to talk about mental illness 30 years ago. “Just get out of bed.” “Exercise works wonders for mood. Go for a nice long walk.” “If you get dressed and go out, I promise you’ll feel better.” “Just relax. It’s not that bad”. Sure. Why didn’t I think of that. /s. Basically— mental illness is due to a lack of will power. Mental health parity in health insurance wasn’t required until around 2010. Now we still have a generation of people not getting treatment for mental illness because they were taught it was a moral failing they could will themselves out of. Guess what? It’s not, it a biochemical illness. And yes, therapy can help. But for serious issues, medication saves so many lives. Anyone remember Listening to Prozac? At the time, it was every bit the wonder drug GLP-1s are today. It improved and even saved so many lives. And people who took it were every bit as stigmatized.
Then, because we never learn, we did it all again with substance abuse. Opioid abuse is the mental illness with the highest mortality rate— higher than anorexia or schizophrenia, but we tell people that they can cure themselves through sheer willpower. If you aren’t stopping, it’s a moral failing, not a biochemically based illness. And, now, it’s obesity. And yes, some people can do more exercise/fewer calories and make it work. But for most of them (90%+), the weight comes back. And many people can’t get it off at all.
And here’s the sick part. There is less criticism of people so desperate to lose weight that they undergo dangerous surgery and risk lifelong malabsorption and digestive issues by having bariatric surgery than there is of people who take a weekly medication. Why? Because surgery is dangerous and painful and has a hard recovery, so fat people are “paying” for what must be gluttony, because *I’ve* never had a serious weight issue, and everyone else must be just like me. Taking a shot that is much safer but accomplishes the same thing is just too easy. Fat people don’t deserve a safe, effective treatment for obesity. They did this to themselves and they should really physically suffer to treat obesity. Otherwise, how will they see the error of their ways?
It was gross when people judged mental illness as a moral failing. It’s gross when we judge substance addiction as such. And, its gross that you would rather fat people stay fat or undergo a risky surgery than access a safe and effective medication.
There but for the grace of God…
NP, but telling people the TRUTH, that many of the issues you cited are in fact within your control to manage or cure without any drugs or medical interventions, is NOT the same thing as telling people that suffering from any of those conditions is a moral failing. You are projecting judgement when you are simply being offered good advice.
Okay. Here’s my truth.In 2000, before PPD was screened for or treated well (especially in the rural South, where I lived at the time) I had a premie who almost died— more than once, while I stood there. I finally got her home, but literally stopped sleeping at all over a period of months because she was high SIDs risk. I was afraid she would die if I wasn’t watching her 24/7. So I did. And I developed crippling anxiety and depression. But, I kept getting up and caring for my child, because that was my job. Just like you are saying depressed and anxious people should do. I tried to push through. (Plus, there was an ADHD toddler in the mix). And I didn’t tell anyone how bad it was and how in over my head I was, because mothers are supposed to instantly bond with their babies and feel all love and wonder all the time and enjoy every minute. I couldn’t admit out loud that I didn’t feel overwhelming love and awe. I felt crippling anxiety every moment of every day and by month I hated myself more and more because I was a crappy mother— because a good mother wouldn’t pray that her kids would just go away for a week or two so she could sleep and take care of herself. And I loved my kids so much, I knew they deserved amazing parents— so not me. Eventually, I decided that my kids would be better off if I wasn’t there. And better off if I died before they could even remember me, because I was that terrible a parent. So, I celebrate my daughters first birthday. And the next day called in sick with a “migraine”. And took every pill I could find. And woke up three days later on a ventilator. The path back was so long and so hard and the depression was so intense that two years later (after trying so many meds and so much therapy) we seriously considered electroshock therapy.
I could have asked for help months earlier. I could have started medication and therapy 9 months earlier when I realized I had a problem. But I didn’t- because of your TRUTH that anxiety and depression could be managed by sheer willpower and that it was shameful to need medication and therapy and medical interventions because of PPD. After all, love for your children and willpower can solve these issues. I believed that. And when it didn’t, I decided I was so defective that my kids were better off without me. And now, 20+ years later, no one besides my husband, parents, in-laws. And doctors know this about me. Because it’s still shameful to admit you tried kill yourself while parenting young children (and because I would never want my children o know and feel that they in any way, at any point drove to suicide.
So here’s a TRUTH— mental illness, ADHD, substance abuse, obesity — these are not moral failings. They are are usually a combination of bad genetics, difficult circumstances, a person’s environment and biochemical imbalances. And when you say these disease are self inflicted or easily controlled with willpower, people become afraid to admit they need treatment because of the stigma— you would judge them for not just powering through. And because you would rather see people like me die than take advantage of medications like Zoloft and Zepbound and interventions like psychotherapy.
Jesus Christ woman, post partum depression is of course a real (and temporary) condition that is known about and of course needs acute treatment. It’s unfortunate they didn’t screen for it when you needed help (or that you chose not to get screened when you knew you had a problem- your statements are actually contradictory). But your story doesn’t change the fact that the vast majority or people suffering from anxiety or depression are NOT dealing with PPD and would be BETTER OFF making the lifestyle changes that have been discussed. (IOW - *everything* is not about *you*)
And I ALREADY SAID these are not moral failings but you apparently refuse to acknowledge that because you are so determined to be a victim. I also never said that depression and anxiety can be managed through “sheer willpower” or that taking medication is “shameful”. You are putting words in my mouth. Your last paragraph is not only ridiculously over dramatic, it is a really disgusting and unfounded accusation against me (I don’t want to see anyone die, what a nasty, horrible thing to say).
Who are you to say that the “vast majority” of people can just “make lifestyle changes” and cure anxiety and depression? I’d love to see the scientific data you are basing this on.
Be honest. No you wouldn’t. It’s easier to keep your head in the sand and take no responsibility.
I love it when people make claims they can't support with data. Stop gaslighting and post some links.
I love it when people think that others who have acquired knowledge through decades of study and experience have “links” ready to be offered up on command. But I suppose it’s typical that you want a “quick fix” and you want someone else to serve it to you on a silver platter.
I guess there is some merit to that saying “how you do anything is how you do everything” after all.
But you didn't acquire any knowledge. You didn't study anything. It's evident by the statements you make. All you have in your holster are cheap shots at people trying to manage their lives. I hope you feel better. That's the only reason you're here.
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