WVU cutting 32 majors, all foreign languages

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't pay shit ton of money and major in a language at a college.

I majored in a language and have done just fine …. a language major is just as useful if not more than any other humanities major.

you probably had to go to graduate school to do "just fine".

And if she did, so what? Who doesn’t have a graduate degree these days? Even STEM majors often go to grad school.

but STEM majors don't need a masters get a high paying jobs. That is the point.

Majoring in a foreign language without a masters in something else doesn't get you a high paying job.

Majoring in a STEM field without a masters can get you a high paying job.

See the difference?

I sure do. But you don’t necessarily need a high paying job.

See the difference?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is not just WVU that has been dropping language programs. This has been going on since at least the great recession. My understanding is that fewer students are taking language in HS (and the vast majority of those kids are taking Spanish) and fewer are taking it at the university level. There is just not much demand. People argue that folks need to know these languages for foreign service and military intelligence, but as someone who has experience in both of these areas, the foreign service and the military have their own language training programs. There is of course a real need for spanish speakers in many parts of the country for in health, policing, education type jobs, but, there is really no demand for other languages. My guess is that universities are also having trouble finding qualified professors for these programs.

I have a friend who majored in German who said it was the biggest mistake of their life. The UN only needs so many translators, and you can’t even get a job teaching it in high school, because no HS offers German.

Well, that is an indictment of your friend’s lack of creativity and originality rather than a knock on being a German major.

You can do just as much, if not more, with a foreign language degree as any other liberal arts degree. It’s like saying majoring in history is a mistake because there are only so many historian jobs out there.

Also, WVU’s Department of World Languages makes prominently clear on its website that many of their students “wisely combine their degree with another major or minor” and goes on to explain how easy that can be. It’s not like they are trying to steer their students to what you would consider to be a useless major.

Not that PP but the fact that you can do "something else" with your foreign language degree is a terrible argument for majoring in foreign language. Go major in the "something else" and take your foreign language classes on the side, if you must. (That's what I did.) Same thing with history, for that matter. Indeed there is even less reason to major in history than foreign languages because you can easily learn as much history as you want to know without taking a single college class.

I majored in Spanish, studied abroad my junior year, won a Fulbright, went to law school, leveraged my Spanish degree and Fulbright/international experience (which I never would have had without being a Spanish major) into becoming an international lawyer, made millions, retired early, and in my retirement travel frequently to Spanish-speaking countries for leisure and adventure. Before I retired I could compete for assignments that others could not, and now that I am not working I can go deeper into places where others cannot and communicate with millions of people with whom others cannot, all because of my foreign language focus in college.

Being a foreign language major has served me very well both professionally and professionally. No regrets.

DP. that's because you went to law school after getting an undergrad in Spanish. Had you not gone to law school, and got a high paying job with just an undergrad, then you'd have an argument. One could major in something completely obscure, still go to law school and get a high paying job.

Not every undergrad who majors in foreign language will or have the chops to go to law school.

Why do seemingly intelligent people not understand this logic.

-signed not a lawyer

It’s not that black and white.

I would not have had either the career as a lawyer that I did without the foreign language degree, and I wouldn’t have had the life I have had outside of the law without the language either.

Trying to generalize from your particular experience to all other foreign language majors is preposterous.

In particular, we know that the median wage of a foreign language major is $54k, including the ones who went on to become lawyers like you did, which indicates this is a very unpromising career path.

Sigh. It’s so tiresome arguing with single-minded thinkers who are laser focused on one thing: how much money you can make.

Only in America so folks think that it’s not useful to speak a second language.

If you are the PP, then you told us how you made big bucks with your foreign language degree, so it sounds like that was pretty important to you.

And yeah, in America it really isn't all that useful to learn a second language, especially in college. If you need someone who speaks Spanish, there are literally tens of millions of native speakers you can hire.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s pointless to argue about this unless you come to a consensus on the point of a college degree. If you see it as just a means to get a high paying job/job training vs. a liberal arts education. If the point is just the former, we should just get rid of general Ed classes. If you go to the professors subreddit, you will see though that the vast majority of high schoolers need those classes.

The argument is pointless without consideration of cost-benefit.

If college cost nothing, then nobody would object to having to take general ed classes and nobody would scoff at "useless" majors.

But when college costs anywhere from $30k to $80k a year for four years, of course people don't want to protract that process and of course people want a return on investment. This is perfectly reasonable.

If you're rich enough that you can afford to pay $300k or more for multiple kids and not even notice it, don't come in here and prattle about valuing "education for its own sake" because that's a hell of a lot of money for people who aren't in the 1%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you look at the states that WV borders, UVA, UMD, Penn State, Pitt, Ohio State, even Kentucky are all growing and healthy. Meanwhile WVU is shrinking

Population, in millions;

WV: 1.8
VA: 8.6
MD: 6
PA: 13
OH: 12
KY: 4.5

Ignoring the broken US system for Senate and Electoral College, WV should probably merge with MD.

No state wants the problems of WV.

I travel back there regularly because I have family who still lives there and I graduated from WVU. The backwoods, backward thinking of 95% of the population + terrible politicians have destroyed the state. The only cities that are thriving are the large ones like Morgantown, Charleston, and Parkersburg are doing well but the others are sh!tholes.

The town where my relatives live lost all their pharmacies and dentists. They have 1 grocery store. Half of the hospital closed (no diagnostic imaging services). Who wants to absorb those issues?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s pointless to argue about this unless you come to a consensus on the point of a college degree. If you see it as just a means to get a high paying job/job training vs. a liberal arts education. If the point is just the former, we should just get rid of general Ed classes. If you go to the professors subreddit, you will see though that the vast majority of high schoolers need those classes.

The argument is pointless without consideration of cost-benefit.

If college cost nothing, then nobody would object to having to take general ed classes and nobody would scoff at "useless" majors.

But when college costs anywhere from $30k to $80k a year for four years, of course people don't want to protract that process and of course people want a return on investment. This is perfectly reasonable.

If you're rich enough that you can afford to pay $300k or more for multiple kids and not even notice it, don't come in here and prattle about valuing "education for its own sake" because that's a hell of a lot of money for people who aren't in the 1%.

I am not arguing for or against. I am saying that it's pointless because people see the purpose of college differently. I actually double majored in 2 liberal arts majors (including a language) and then went on to a practical/science field. I think it was an awesome experience. It also was at a time when college did not cost an arm and a leg. I think times have changed. Also-because high school has been watered down for at least the average student-college is following suit. Does it then become a college's function to also make sure students can do basic math and write? I don't think so but it seems like it is heading that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s pointless to argue about this unless you come to a consensus on the point of a college degree. If you see it as just a means to get a high paying job/job training vs. a liberal arts education. If the point is just the former, we should just get rid of general Ed classes. If you go to the professors subreddit, you will see though that the vast majority of high schoolers need those classes.

The argument is pointless without consideration of cost-benefit.

If college cost nothing, then nobody would object to having to take general ed classes and nobody would scoff at "useless" majors.

But when college costs anywhere from $30k to $80k a year for four years, of course people don't want to protract that process and of course people want a return on investment. This is perfectly reasonable.

If you're rich enough that you can afford to pay $300k or more for multiple kids and not even notice it, don't come in here and prattle about valuing "education for its own sake" because that's a hell of a lot of money for people who aren't in the 1%.

I am not arguing for or against. I am saying that it's pointless because people see the purpose of college differently. I actually double majored in 2 liberal arts majors (including a language) and then went on to a practical/science field. I think it was an awesome experience. It also was at a time when college did not cost an arm and a leg. I think times have changed. Also-because high school has been watered down for at least the average student-college is following suit. Does it then become a college's function to also make sure students can do basic math and write? I don't think so but it seems like it is heading that way.

Times have changed because the price has changed. Most people's views of "the purpose of college" will change as the cost of college changes. People won't care much about the "purpose" of a product if it is very cheap. Now that it is very expensive, people will of course ask "why do I need this, what does it do for me?"

College in this country is inextricably linked to employment status and social advancement. If you did not need a college degree to get a decent middle-class job, very few people would think there was a purpose to going to college even if it was very cheap. The only reason a lot of people want their kids in college now that college is insanely expensive is that their kids need it to get a job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't pay shit ton of money and major in a language at a college.

I majored in a language and have done just fine …. a language major is just as useful if not more than any other humanities major.

you probably had to go to graduate school to do "just fine".

And if she did, so what? Who doesn’t have a graduate degree these days? Even STEM majors often go to grad school.

but STEM majors don't need a masters get a high paying jobs. That is the point.

Majoring in a foreign language without a masters in something else doesn't get you a high paying job.

Majoring in a STEM field without a masters can get you a high paying job.

See the difference?

I sure do. But you don’t necessarily need a high paying job.

See the difference?

If you grew up poor like I did, you will want a high paying job, especially since I help out my sibling and parents financially. Have you ever been poor, felt hungry, afraid your car will die out in the middle of the road?

I don't want to scrimp and save my entire working life just so that I could retire at 67. I'd like to retire earlier than that, and do so comfortably. That means I need a high paying job.

It's nice that you don't need to see the difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is not just WVU that has been dropping language programs. This has been going on since at least the great recession. My understanding is that fewer students are taking language in HS (and the vast majority of those kids are taking Spanish) and fewer are taking it at the university level. There is just not much demand. People argue that folks need to know these languages for foreign service and military intelligence, but as someone who has experience in both of these areas, the foreign service and the military have their own language training programs. There is of course a real need for spanish speakers in many parts of the country for in health, policing, education type jobs, but, there is really no demand for other languages. My guess is that universities are also having trouble finding qualified professors for these programs.

I have a friend who majored in German who said it was the biggest mistake of their life. The UN only needs so many translators, and you can’t even get a job teaching it in high school, because no HS offers German.

Well, that is an indictment of your friend’s lack of creativity and originality rather than a knock on being a German major.

You can do just as much, if not more, with a foreign language degree as any other liberal arts degree. It’s like saying majoring in history is a mistake because there are only so many historian jobs out there.

Also, WVU’s Department of World Languages makes prominently clear on its website that many of their students “wisely combine their degree with another major or minor” and goes on to explain how easy that can be. It’s not like they are trying to steer their students to what you would consider to be a useless major.

Not that PP but the fact that you can do "something else" with your foreign language degree is a terrible argument for majoring in foreign language. Go major in the "something else" and take your foreign language classes on the side, if you must. (That's what I did.) Same thing with history, for that matter. Indeed there is even less reason to major in history than foreign languages because you can easily learn as much history as you want to know without taking a single college class.

I majored in Spanish, studied abroad my junior year, won a Fulbright, went to law school, leveraged my Spanish degree and Fulbright/international experience (which I never would have had without being a Spanish major) into becoming an international lawyer, made millions, retired early, and in my retirement travel frequently to Spanish-speaking countries for leisure and adventure. Before I retired I could compete for assignments that others could not, and now that I am not working I can go deeper into places where others cannot and communicate with millions of people with whom others cannot, all because of my foreign language focus in college.

Being a foreign language major has served me very well both professionally and professionally. No regrets.

DP. that's because you went to law school after getting an undergrad in Spanish. Had you not gone to law school, and got a high paying job with just an undergrad, then you'd have an argument. One could major in something completely obscure, still go to law school and get a high paying job.

Not every undergrad who majors in foreign language will or have the chops to go to law school.

Why do seemingly intelligent people not understand this logic.

-signed not a lawyer

It’s not that black and white.

I would not have had either the career as a lawyer that I did without the foreign language degree, and I wouldn’t have had the life I have had outside of the law without the language either.

Trying to generalize from your particular experience to all other foreign language majors is preposterous.

In particular, we know that the median wage of a foreign language major is $54k, including the ones who went on to become lawyers like you did, which indicates this is a very unpromising career path.

Sigh. It’s so tiresome arguing with single-minded thinkers who are laser focused on one thing: how much money you can make.

Only in America so folks think that it’s not useful to speak a second language.

If you are the PP, then you told us how you made big bucks with your foreign language degree, so it sounds like that was pretty important to you.

And yeah, in America it really isn't all that useful to learn a second language, especially in college. If you need someone who speaks Spanish, there are literally tens of millions of native speakers you can hire.

+1 No shortage of Spanish speakers in this country. Actually, you can probably find native speakers of most major languages in the DC area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s pointless to argue about this unless you come to a consensus on the point of a college degree. If you see it as just a means to get a high paying job/job training vs. a liberal arts education. If the point is just the former, we should just get rid of general Ed classes. If you go to the professors subreddit, you will see though that the vast majority of high schoolers need those classes.

The argument is pointless without consideration of cost-benefit.

If college cost nothing, then nobody would object to having to take general ed classes and nobody would scoff at "useless" majors.

But when college costs anywhere from $30k to $80k a year for four years, of course people don't want to protract that process and of course people want a return on investment. This is perfectly reasonable.

If you're rich enough that you can afford to pay $300k or more for multiple kids and not even notice it, don't come in here and prattle about valuing "education for its own sake" because that's a hell of a lot of money for people who aren't in the 1%.

I am not arguing for or against. I am saying that it's pointless because people see the purpose of college differently. I actually double majored in 2 liberal arts majors (including a language) and then went on to a practical/science field. I think it was an awesome experience. It also was at a time when college did not cost an arm and a leg. I think times have changed. Also-because high school has been watered down for at least the average student-college is following suit. Does it then become a college's function to also make sure students can do basic math and write? I don't think so but it seems like it is heading that way.

Times have changed because the price has changed. Most people's views of "the purpose of college" will change as the cost of college changes. People won't care much about the "purpose" of a product if it is very cheap. Now that it is very expensive, people will of course ask "why do I need this, what does it do for me?"

College in this country is inextricably linked to employment status and social advancement. If you did not need a college degree to get a decent middle-class job, very few people would think there was a purpose to going to college even if it was very cheap. The only reason a lot of people want their kids in college now that college is insanely expensive is that their kids need it to get a job.

+1 99% of college students need good paying jobs out of college. How are they going to pay off all those loans?

A lot of DCUM posters live in a bubble of privilege.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't pay shit ton of money and major in a language at a college.

I majored in a language and have done just fine …. a language major is just as useful if not more than any other humanities major.

you probably had to go to graduate school to do "just fine".

And if she did, so what? Who doesn’t have a graduate degree these days? Even STEM majors often go to grad school.

but STEM majors don't need a masters get a high paying jobs. That is the point.

Majoring in a foreign language without a masters in something else doesn't get you a high paying job.

Majoring in a STEM field without a masters can get you a high paying job.

See the difference?

PP Spanish major lawyer here (but not the millionaire one). I am not a STEM person. Getting a degree in CS or engineering was never a path for me. My path was law - and my degree prepared me for that just fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't pay shit ton of money and major in a language at a college.

I majored in a language and have done just fine …. a language major is just as useful if not more than any other humanities major.

you probably had to go to graduate school to do "just fine".

And if she did, so what? Who doesn’t have a graduate degree these days? Even STEM majors often go to grad school.

85.7% of the US, to be precise.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/04/12/10-facts-about-todays-college-graduates/

[Anonymous]

What about bilingual doctors, nurses, and other healthcare workers? ESL teachers? I am a bilingual speech pathologist (native English speaker, double majored in Spanish & speech pathology in college) and there is such a dire need for Spanish-speaking SLPs (and other healthcare workers) that I can write my own ticket. No, it's not a job I'll ever get rich in, but it's an essential service that is not going away and where there is a ton of opportunity - doubly so if you speak another language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You don't pay shit ton of money and major in a language at a college.

Depends. My kid is double majoring in international relations and Russian. American citizens with proficiency in a critical language (Arabic, Chinese, Russian are 3 of the biggies) are in very high demand in the federal government.

French— not so much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is not just WVU that has been dropping language programs. This has been going on since at least the great recession. My understanding is that fewer students are taking language in HS (and the vast majority of those kids are taking Spanish) and fewer are taking it at the university level. There is just not much demand. People argue that folks need to know these languages for foreign service and military intelligence, but as someone who has experience in both of these areas, the foreign service and the military have their own language training programs. There is of course a real need for spanish speakers in many parts of the country for in health, policing, education type jobs, but, there is really no demand for other languages. My guess is that universities are also having trouble finding qualified professors for these programs.

I have a friend who majored in German who said it was the biggest mistake of their life. The UN only needs so many translators, and you can’t even get a job teaching it in high school, because no HS offers German.

German isn’t a critical language. Try Arabic, Chinese, Korean, Russian, etc as a US citizen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is not just WVU that has been dropping language programs. This has been going on since at least the great recession. My understanding is that fewer students are taking language in HS (and the vast majority of those kids are taking Spanish) and fewer are taking it at the university level. There is just not much demand. People argue that folks need to know these languages for foreign service and military intelligence, but as someone who has experience in both of these areas, the foreign service and the military have their own language training programs. There is of course a real need for spanish speakers in many parts of the country for in health, policing, education type jobs, but, there is really no demand for other languages. My guess is that universities are also having trouble finding qualified professors for these programs.

I have a friend who majored in German who said it was the biggest mistake of their life. The UN only needs so many translators, and you can’t even get a job teaching it in high school, because no HS offers German.

Well, that is an indictment of your friend’s lack of creativity and originality rather than a knock on being a German major.

You can do just as much, if not more, with a foreign language degree as any other liberal arts degree. It’s like saying majoring in history is a mistake because there are only so many historian jobs out there.

Also, WVU’s Department of World Languages makes prominently clear on its website that many of their students “wisely combine their degree with another major or minor” and goes on to explain how easy that can be. It’s not like they are trying to steer their students to what you would consider to be a useless major.

Not that PP but the fact that you can do "something else" with your foreign language degree is a terrible argument for majoring in foreign language. Go major in the "something else" and take your foreign language classes on the side, if you must. (That's what I did.) Same thing with history, for that matter. Indeed there is even less reason to major in history than foreign languages because you can easily learn as much history as you want to know without taking a single college class.

I majored in Spanish, studied abroad my junior year, won a Fulbright, went to law school, leveraged my Spanish degree and Fulbright/international experience (which I never would have had without being a Spanish major) into becoming an international lawyer, made millions, retired early, and in my retirement travel frequently to Spanish-speaking countries for leisure and adventure. Before I retired I could compete for assignments that others could not, and now that I am not working I can go deeper into places where others cannot and communicate with millions of people with whom others cannot, all because of my foreign language focus in college.

Being a foreign language major has served me very well both professionally and professionally. No regrets.

DP. that's because you went to law school after getting an undergrad in Spanish. Had you not gone to law school, and got a high paying job with just an undergrad, then you'd have an argument. One could major in something completely obscure, still go to law school and get a high paying job.

Not every undergrad who majors in foreign language will or have the chops to go to law school.

Why do seemingly intelligent people not understand this logic.

-signed not a lawyer

It’s not that black and white.

I would not have had either the career as a lawyer that I did without the foreign language degree, and I wouldn’t have had the life I have had outside of the law without the language either.

Trying to generalize from your particular experience to all other foreign language majors is preposterous.

In particular, we know that the median wage of a foreign language major is $54k, including the ones who went on to become lawyers like you did, which indicates this is a very unpromising career path.

Sigh. It’s so tiresome arguing with single-minded thinkers who are laser focused on one thing: how much money you can make.

Only in America so folks think that it’s not useful to speak a second language.

If you are the PP, then you told us how you made big bucks with your foreign language degree, so it sounds like that was pretty important to you.

And yeah, in America it really isn't all that useful to learn a second language, especially in college. If you need someone who speaks Spanish, there are literally tens of millions of native speakers you can hire.

+1 No shortage of Spanish speakers in this country. Actually, you can probably find native speakers of most major languages in the DC area.

I realize I’m wasting my time belaboring this point, but . . .

Hiring a translator won’t cut it when your job involves hopping on a plane to a Spanish speaking country, meeting with Spanish speaking clients, entertaining said clients in local restaurants in Spanish speaking cities, meeting and conducting meetings with local Spanish speaking witnesses, lawyers and government officials, etc. You don’t - can’t - do all of that with your trusty translator at your hip.

The idea that it is of no benefit in today’s international marketplace to speak a second language because you can just go out and hire a translator is not a very sophisticated one.