Do you believe in aliens, extra-terrestrials, life on other planets, etc?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You know I sincerely want to understand why believers are believers but I have to say you folks are not doing a good job convincing me or explain your reasoning

The consensus of historians is Jesus existed. There's documentary evidence.

I've seen zero evidence of aliens. Maybe there was that one guy who was trending online after the 2020 election who believes he slept with aliens, but I think he's a looney tune.

There may be evidence that Jesus existed, but there is no evidence that he was the son of god. That's a religious belief.

Still, the existence of people in the Bible, my religion, is supported by actual evidence.

Alien existence has no credible evidence.

So what? there have always been people who "believed" the Bible. There are also people who say there is evidence of Alien existence, which hasn't been studied as thoroughly as Jesus.

Alien existence "evidence" is not widely accepted as credible by historians or scientists. In fact, it's the opposite. It's widely regarded as crackpot

This is true. However, God speaking from a burning bush, Jesus walking on water, ascending bodily into heaven, etc., that's not considered crackpot. Go figure.

All of the above is recorded in the Bible, the best selling book in the world, and supposedly happened here on Earth.

Hmm. So Dan Brown's Da Vinci code has sold 80 million copies and is among the top 10 best selling books in the world.Do you believe it. How about the Harry Potter books?, some of them have sold even more copies than Da Vinci code.

According to Guinness World Records as of 1995, the Bible is the best-selling book of all time with an estimated 5 billion copies sold and distributed.[5] Sales estimates for other printed religious texts include at least 800 million copies for the Qur'an and 190 million copies for the Book of Mormon.[6] Also, a single publisher has produced more than 140 million copies of the Bhagavad Gita.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_books

I think a lot of those were given away. They gave me one when I was in Church when I was 13. Then I see them in the drawers in the desks in the hotel rooms all over the world. BYW, did you know the guy who translated the Bible into English, William Tyndale, was executed by Church authorities for bringing the scriptures to the common people so they could actually read it for themselves?

It’s amazing that so many people have given their life for Jesus Christ.

Nobody is giving their life for Harry Potter.

Fine, but what does that have with the relative books sales of the Bible and Harry Potter books since the latter started being published?

a pp contributed to the thread that a man died so common people could have access to the Bible and read it for themselves. So far no one has died so that people can read HP. Huge diff.

That was me. Tyndale was executed by the Church authorities (the priestly class) for the heresy of bringing the word of God to the common people so they could read it for themselves. Imagine!

In 1530, he wrote The Practice of Prelates, opposing Henry VIII's desire to secure the annulment of his marriage to Catherine of Aragon in favour of Anne Boleyn, on the grounds that it was unscriptural and that it was a plot by Cardinal Wolsey to get Henry entangled in the papal courts of Pope Clement VII. [32][33] The king's wrath was aimed at Tyndale. Henry asked Emperor Charles V to have the writer apprehended and returned to England under the terms of the Treaty of Cambrai; however, the emperor responded that formal evidence was required before extradition.[34] Tyndale developed his case in An Answer unto Sir Thomas More's Dialogue.[35]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tyndale

Alot of people think King Henry 8th was very upset Tyndale opposed his divorce from his first wife and proposed remarriage to Anne Boleyn and that’s why he really was executed.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You know I sincerely want to understand why believers are believers but I have to say you folks are not doing a good job convincing me or explain your reasoning

The consensus of historians is Jesus existed. There's documentary evidence.

I've seen zero evidence of aliens. Maybe there was that one guy who was trending online after the 2020 election who believes he slept with aliens, but I think he's a looney tune.

There may be evidence that Jesus existed, but there is no evidence that he was the son of god. That's a religious belief.

Still, the existence of people in the Bible, my religion, is supported by actual evidence.

Alien existence has no credible evidence.

So what? there have always been people who "believed" the Bible. There are also people who say there is evidence of Alien existence, which hasn't been studied as thoroughly as Jesus.

Alien existence "evidence" is not widely accepted as credible by historians or scientists. In fact, it's the opposite. It's widely regarded as crackpot

This is true. However, God speaking from a burning bush, Jesus walking on water, ascending bodily into heaven, etc., that's not considered crackpot. Go figure.

All of the above is recorded in the Bible, the best selling book in the world, and supposedly happened here on Earth.

Hmm. So Dan Brown's Da Vinci code has sold 80 million copies and is among the top 10 best selling books in the world.Do you believe it. How about the Harry Potter books?, some of them have sold even more copies than Da Vinci code.

According to Guinness World Records as of 1995, the Bible is the best-selling book of all time with an estimated 5 billion copies sold and distributed.[5] Sales estimates for other printed religious texts include at least 800 million copies for the Qur'an and 190 million copies for the Book of Mormon.[6] Also, a single publisher has produced more than 140 million copies of the Bhagavad Gita.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_books

I think a lot of those were given away. They gave me one when I was in Church when I was 13. Then I see them in the drawers in the desks in the hotel rooms all over the world. BYW, did you know the guy who translated the Bible into English, William Tyndale, was executed by Church authorities for bringing the scriptures to the common people so they could actually read it for themselves?

It’s amazing that so many people have given their life for Jesus Christ.

Nobody is giving their life for Harry Potter.

Fine, but what does that have with the relative books sales of the Bible and Harry Potter books since the latter started being published?

a pp contributed to the thread that a man died so common people could have access to the Bible and read it for themselves. So far no one has died so that people can read HP. Huge diff.

That was me. Tyndale was executed by the Church authorities (the priestly class) for the heresy of bringing the word of God to the common people so they could read it for themselves. Imagine!

In 1530, he wrote The Practice of Prelates, opposing Henry VIII's desire to secure the annulment of his marriage to Catherine of Aragon in favour of Anne Boleyn, on the grounds that it was unscriptural and that it was a plot by Cardinal Wolsey to get Henry entangled in the papal courts of Pope Clement VII. [32][33] The king's wrath was aimed at Tyndale. Henry asked Emperor Charles V to have the writer apprehended and returned to England under the terms of the Treaty of Cambrai; however, the emperor responded that formal evidence was required before extradition.[34] Tyndale developed his case in An Answer unto Sir Thomas More's Dialogue.[35]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tyndale

Alot of people think King Henry 8th was very upset Tyndale opposed his divorce from his first wife and proposed remarriage to Anne Boleyn and that’s why he really was executed.

Nonsense. From Christianity.com


"King Henry VIII, then in the throes of his divorce from Queen Katherine, offered Tyndale a safe passage to England to serve as his writer and scholar. Tyndale refused, saying he would not return until the Bible could be legally translated into English. Tyndale continued hiding among the merchants in Antwerp and began translating the Old Testament while the King's agents searched all over England and Europe for him.

In 1534, Tyndale was betrayed by a false friend near Brussels, arrested by imperial forces, and thrown into prison. Tyndale was finally found by an Englishman who pretended to be his friend but then turned him over to the authorities. After a year and a half in prison, he was brought to trial for heresy -- for believing, among other things, in the forgiveness of sins and that the mercy offered in the gospel was enough for salvation. He was accused of maintaining that faith alone justifies.
In August 1536, he was condemned; on this day, October 6, 1536, he was strangled and his body burned at the stake. His last prayer was "Lord, open the King of England's eyes." The prayer was answered in part when three years later, in 1539, Henry VIII required every parish church in England to make a copy of the English Bible available to its parishioners"

You can also read the excellent biography of Tyndale by David Daniell. He was executed as a heretic for translating the Bible into English so the common people could actually read it, and thus break the Church's stranglehold on what the scriptures said.

[Anonymous]

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History is fascinating.

In our current times, the Bible is still a book many people are forbidden from owning and reading.

It’s 2023 and entire countries and governments ban the Bible.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You know I sincerely want to understand why believers are believers but I have to say you folks are not doing a good job convincing me or explain your reasoning

The consensus of historians is Jesus existed. There's documentary evidence.

I've seen zero evidence of aliens. Maybe there was that one guy who was trending online after the 2020 election who believes he slept with aliens, but I think he's a looney tune.

There may be evidence that Jesus existed, but there is no evidence that he was the son of god. That's a religious belief.

Still, the existence of people in the Bible, my religion, is supported by actual evidence.

Alien existence has no credible evidence.

So what? there have always been people who "believed" the Bible. There are also people who say there is evidence of Alien existence, which hasn't been studied as thoroughly as Jesus.

Alien existence "evidence" is not widely accepted as credible by historians or scientists. In fact, it's the opposite. It's widely regarded as crackpot

This is true. However, God speaking from a burning bush, Jesus walking on water, ascending bodily into heaven, etc., that's not considered crackpot. Go figure.

All of the above is recorded in the Bible, the best selling book in the world, and supposedly happened here on Earth.

Hmm. So Dan Brown's Da Vinci code has sold 80 million copies and is among the top 10 best selling books in the world.Do you believe it. How about the Harry Potter books?, some of them have sold even more copies than Da Vinci code.

According to Guinness World Records as of 1995, the Bible is the best-selling book of all time with an estimated 5 billion copies sold and distributed.[5] Sales estimates for other printed religious texts include at least 800 million copies for the Qur'an and 190 million copies for the Book of Mormon.[6] Also, a single publisher has produced more than 140 million copies of the Bhagavad Gita.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_books

I think a lot of those were given away. They gave me one when I was in Church when I was 13. Then I see them in the drawers in the desks in the hotel rooms all over the world. BYW, did you know the guy who translated the Bible into English, William Tyndale, was executed by Church authorities for bringing the scriptures to the common people so they could actually read it for themselves?

It’s amazing that so many people have given their life for Jesus Christ.

Nobody is giving their life for Harry Potter.

Fine, but what does that have with the relative books sales of the Bible and Harry Potter books since the latter started being published?

a pp contributed to the thread that a man died so common people could have access to the Bible and read it for themselves. So far no one has died so that people can read HP. Huge diff.

That was me. Tyndale was executed by the Church authorities (the priestly class) for the heresy of bringing the word of God to the common people so they could read it for themselves. Imagine!

In 1530, he wrote The Practice of Prelates, opposing Henry VIII's desire to secure the annulment of his marriage to Catherine of Aragon in favour of Anne Boleyn, on the grounds that it was unscriptural and that it was a plot by Cardinal Wolsey to get Henry entangled in the papal courts of Pope Clement VII. [32][33] The king's wrath was aimed at Tyndale. Henry asked Emperor Charles V to have the writer apprehended and returned to England under the terms of the Treaty of Cambrai; however, the emperor responded that formal evidence was required before extradition.[34] Tyndale developed his case in An Answer unto Sir Thomas More's Dialogue.[35]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tyndale

Alot of people think King Henry 8th was very upset Tyndale opposed his divorce from his first wife and proposed remarriage to Anne Boleyn and that’s why he really was executed.

^ you left out this part of that wiki article:

"Tyndale's translation was the first English Bible to draw directly from Hebrew and Greek texts, the first English translation to take advantage of the printing press, the first of the new English Bibles of the Reformation, and the first English translation to use Jehovah ("Iehouah") as God's name as preferred by English Protestant Reformers.[a] It was taken to be a direct challenge to the hegemony of the Catholic Church and of those laws of England maintaining the church's position."

[Anonymous]

King Henry the 8th, Head of the Church of England, executed how many of his wives? He imprisoned his own daughters for years? Are we excited about that?

[Anonymous]

I never understand religious people who cling to both religion and science. Religion has actively tried to keep people in the dark (treat em like mushrooms) and keep them compliant. Any religious person who also believes in science must be cherry picking from their religious text, as they are pretty well laid out in what they believe (spoiler alert, it aint science).

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You know I sincerely want to understand why believers are believers but I have to say you folks are not doing a good job convincing me or explain your reasoning

The consensus of historians is Jesus existed. There's documentary evidence.

I've seen zero evidence of aliens. Maybe there was that one guy who was trending online after the 2020 election who believes he slept with aliens, but I think he's a looney tune.

There may be evidence that Jesus existed, but there is no evidence that he was the son of god. That's a religious belief.

Still, the existence of people in the Bible, my religion, is supported by actual evidence.

Alien existence has no credible evidence.

So what? there have always been people who "believed" the Bible. There are also people who say there is evidence of Alien existence, which hasn't been studied as thoroughly as Jesus.

Alien existence "evidence" is not widely accepted as credible by historians or scientists. In fact, it's the opposite. It's widely regarded as crackpot

This is true. However, God speaking from a burning bush, Jesus walking on water, ascending bodily into heaven, etc., that's not considered crackpot. Go figure.

All of the above is recorded in the Bible, the best selling book in the world, and supposedly happened here on Earth.

That's not evidence that any of that happened. Ask a religious scientist to explain that to you.

[Anonymous]

not only do I believe but I see them on tv daily.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You need evidence for life on other planets but not for the existence of god?

81% of Americans believe in God.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/393737/belief-god-dips-new-low.aspx#:~:text=WASHINGTON%2C%20D.C.%20%2D%2D%20The%20vast,of%20Americans%20believed%20in%20God.

What % believed in Santa Claus when they were a kid? Many people blindly believe what they are taught.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think your question assumes that faith and science are diametrically opposed. But most people of faith also believe in science and evolution and the Big Bang Theory. So for most religious people, I think there's no conflict between their conception of God and the idea that life may have evolved on other planets.

Good response. I don’t know why my faith would change if we found our life exists on other planets.

I’m often surprised by the assumption that my faith means I don’t believe in science.

It's definitely unfair to assume that of you before you are asked. 100%. But I am sure you understand why people make that assumption, don't you?

As for OP's question, like everything else it is best to look for evidence before making a conclusion. The most compelling type of argument I have seen is the Drake Equation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation which relies on the incredible vastness of the universe, and since we know life exists in one spot, states it is likely to exist in another.

I don't really buy into that myself, even though it is an interesting thought experiment.

I’m the PP. No, I don’t understand why people may assume I don’t believe in science. There are people of faith throughout the scientific community. The Big Bang was theorized by a Catholic priest. NIH Director Collins wrote a book reconciling faith and science called The Language of God. A good friend has a PhD in Chemistry and is one of the most religious people I know.

Here on DCUM, I’ve been told I CAN’T believe in science if I believe in God.

I don’t see how today’s hearing would have any impact on my faith.

Yup. Scientists can “believe” in both if they compartmentalize.

Why the need to compartmentalize? I have no problem seeing how God can have a guiding hand in science. A PP did a good job already demonstrating that.

If you don’t believe in God, that’s fine. I just don’t see why you get to comment on others’ beliefs.

And if you flip that around? How do you use science to explain God?

Why do I have to?

You don’t - because you compartmentalize.

And yet I don’t. My beliefs easily coexist.

I’m not sure why this threatens you to the point at which you need to declare what and how I believe.

So how does science explain god?

Again… why does it have to? God can set science in motion. Science does not need to prove God. Those two ideas aren’t antithetical to each other.

You say I compartmentalize, but I’m assuming you don’t understand faith well enough to see how they coexist.

That’s okay. You do you, and I’ll do me. Look at that. We can also coexist.

They coexist in two different buckets in your brain. God does god stuff. Science does science stuff.

Nope. Sorry. That’s now how it works, and at least two posters have said that by now. How the heck would compartmentalization even work? God sets the Big Bang. God’s hand is at work during the biological process of growing a fetus. It works together very easily.

You don’t get to decide how my brain comprehends ideas. Perhaps YOU aren’t capable of this thought, but others are. It’s time to move on.

Then you should easily be able to explain god using science.

God requires faith, not science.

Disconnect is religious people say they are consistent - faith and science. Others believe they are not and want explanation how religious people came to that conclusion. The answers given here are not very convincing.

DP - In what ways are God and science supposed to be separate such that I would need to divide them in my brain into different compartments/buckets?

This is so elementary it shouldn't need explaining, and I even assume believers and non-believers agree on this: God requires belief, fine. Science doesn't depend on belief, but on the scientific method. Science, if it doesn't know the answer at admits it doesn't know the answer. It doesn't just make stuff up out of whole cloth that can't be proved.

...Right, but I'm not sure why believing in God and understanding science would need to be compartmentalized as two wholly separate things when, in fact, many people of faith don't see any contradiction between their belief in God and scientific discoveries/advances.

The don't contradict, they just don't overlap.

People use science to explain the objective, physical world based on measurable, repeatable data.

Some people use religion to explain the unknown. “The unknown” changes over time as we have more scientific discoveries.

One can also believe that God put the objective, physical world into play. It isn’t just the unknown that can be explained by God.

That is explaining the unknown.

I disagree. We understand how humans form from egg/sperm to infants. Biology clearly explains that. Saying God had a hand in forming that process isn’t explaining the unknown.

"God created science" is a cop-out. And bad science.

Why does it bother you that people think God inspires science? It's not provable either way and it doesn't affect the science.

Right. Science stands on its own. It doesn't - and can't - utilize supernatural explanations. Religious scientists know not to mix the two.

But I think what PP is saying (please correct me if I'm misrepresenting your thoughts) is that believers can simultaneously trust science and the scientific process and believe that God guides or inspires science.

There's a story about a man in a hurricane that illustrates this point. First, there was a weather report that announced a hurricane was approaching. The man said, "God will protect me." Then an evacuation order and the man said again, "God will protect me." The waters rose and the man had to move to his roof. A rescue boat drove by and offered to take him to safety, but he answered, "God will protect me." Finally, a helicopter flew over and dropped him a line, but again he refused, because "God will protect me." The man drowned that night and in heaven he said to God, "Where were you?" God responded, "I sent you a weather report, an evacuation order, a boat, and a helicopter. What more did you want?"

Simultaneous, but compartmentalized. Science doesn't (can't) require supernatural forces.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You know I sincerely want to understand why believers are believers but I have to say you folks are not doing a good job convincing me or explain your reasoning

The consensus of historians is Jesus existed. There's documentary evidence.

I've seen zero evidence of aliens. Maybe there was that one guy who was trending online after the 2020 election who believes he slept with aliens, but I think he's a looney tune.

There may be evidence that Jesus existed, but there is no evidence that he was the son of god. That's a religious belief.

Still, the existence of people in the Bible, my religion, is supported by actual evidence.

Alien existence has no credible evidence.

So what? there have always been people who "believed" the Bible. There are also people who say there is evidence of Alien existence, which hasn't been studied as thoroughly as Jesus.

Alien existence "evidence" is not widely accepted as credible by historians or scientists. In fact, it's the opposite. It's widely regarded as crackpot

This is true. However, God speaking from a burning bush, Jesus walking on water, ascending bodily into heaven, etc., that's not considered crackpot. Go figure.

All of the above is recorded in the Bible, the best selling book in the world, and supposedly happened here on Earth.

Hmm. So Dan Brown's Da Vinci code has sold 80 million copies and is among the top 10 best selling books in the world.Do you believe it. How about the Harry Potter books?, some of them have sold even more copies than Da Vinci code.

According to Guinness World Records as of 1995, the Bible is the best-selling book of all time with an estimated 5 billion copies sold and distributed.[5] Sales estimates for other printed religious texts include at least 800 million copies for the Qur'an and 190 million copies for the Book of Mormon.[6] Also, a single publisher has produced more than 140 million copies of the Bhagavad Gita.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_books

I think a lot of those were given away. They gave me one when I was in Church when I was 13. Then I see them in the drawers in the desks in the hotel rooms all over the world. BYW, did you know the guy who translated the Bible into English, William Tyndale, was executed by Church authorities for bringing the scriptures to the common people so they could actually read it for themselves?

It’s amazing that so many people have given their life for Jesus Christ.

Nobody is giving their life for Harry Potter.

It doesn't take much to make people drink the Kool-Aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:King Henry the 8th, Head of the Church of England, executed how many of his wives? He imprisoned his own daughters for years? Are we excited about that?

FWIW, Henry was still pretty much a Catholic as far as theology was concerned, thus the need to end his marriages by annulment or death/execution instead of just divorcing them. Anglican protestant theology didn't develop until after his death.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need evidence for life on other planets but not for the existence of god?

81% of Americans believe in God.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/393737/belief-god-dips-new-low.aspx#:~:text=WASHINGTON%2C%20D.C.%20%2D%2D%20The%20vast,of%20Americans%20believed%20in%20God.

What % believed in Santa Claus when they were a kid? Many people blindly believe what they are taught.

And yet 100% grew out of the latter but 81% still believe in God.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need evidence for life on other planets but not for the existence of god?

81% of Americans believe in God.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/393737/belief-god-dips-new-low.aspx#:~:text=WASHINGTON%2C%20D.C.%20%2D%2D%20The%20vast,of%20Americans%20believed%20in%20God.

What % believed in Santa Claus when they were a kid? Many people blindly believe what they are taught.

And yet 100% grew out of the latter but 81% still believe in God.

PS, don't you ever get tired of the Santa Claus comparison? It never, ever works and people just roll their eyes at you. Find some new material if you want to have a hope of proselytizing effectively for atheism.

Also, you were told for an entire thread that calling religion a "myth" is offensive and that it would be less offensive if you capitalized God. The moderator opined on this very subject that, in this case, people of faith are the ones who decide what's offensive, not you.

Yet here you are being deliberately offensive again.

This says a lot about you. Not just your 24/8/375 efforts to proselytize (which is merely sad), but the fact that you actually think insulting people will win them over. Instead of, you know, driving them further into their corners and/or just making them roll their eyes at you and dismiss you out of hand as a sad, nasty troll.

But yeah, keep doing you....

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP, do you believe -10 + 15 = 5?

I don't even know what your point is. What are you trying to say? Your wit is lost in translation.

PP is mad he doesn’t have a sense of humor

what's so funny about -10+15=5? or 1+1=2?

NP. There was a thread about Mary's age that claimed she was younger than Jesus by adding negative numbers for before Jesus was born because BC time is negative? I guess it got deleted, I don't see it now. It was a joke, I guess, but I don't think anyone ever said they found it funny.

The real joke is that an innumerate atheist has started a thread to claim people of faith are anti-science.