Are public schools everywhere in the US getting bad post-pandemic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do other countries deal with the same issues or is it an American thing?

I'm sure they do not.

You have to understand a number of things to realize why US public education sucks. And by the way, a lot of the really good grad schools are no longer in US - we recruit out of London School of Economics v. Princeton/Ivies for finance now. So it's no longer public K-12 but the colleges now in the US aren't as strong as it makes sense - nationally, we are feeding weaker educated kids through the system. The reasons include:

-US is a huge country. All the states work somewhat independently and add to that individual school boards/counties/etc. It's hard to make anything work the same/right - it's going to be somewhat of a chaotic mess. The southern GOP want religion, CA wants to do things their way, NE want their way, etc and etc.. I don't know truly how we make it all work and what solutions to this help make schools across the board provide a high quality K-12 education.
-US is all about capitalism and independence. Culturally, it's all about doing your own thing. Thus, we have different standards when it comes to schools. If you're rich, you'll get certain teachers/schools and if you're poor... it's all about money here! I think that's just a given and won't ever change whereas in other countries, they work differently. Certain priorities like healthcare, education, taking care of your citizens by way of unemployment and a safety net for homeless people - that's all figured into their national identity. We just don't prioritize education at all.
-There is no prioritization on families and children in the US from a cultural perspective. Note that all we have is FMLA and it's pretty weak. Compare our policies for parents v. many top performing educational systems globally. In Japan, W Europe, Scandinavia you see how they treat moms, families, etc? Do you understand what I'm saying? As a society, we got other considerations aka money!
-Every single (or nearly every single) one of our federal departments is messed up. You really think US Dept of Education knows what they are doing? In other countries, they approach things a different way. Our protocols for how we run governmental agencies is totally wrecked. We just can't get it together to have a federal organization perform at top levels. Leadership and red tape, political lobbying and how big things are, it's all contributed to breakdowns at every fed organization incl education.

OF COURSE homeschooling 1:1 is going to be more effective than going to a school with 1+ students in a class! That's not something a test result needs to tell me. Anyone who doesn't understand why is a dumbass. Of course public schools where there are like 30+ kids in a class per teacher will have students that probably will do poorly. That's not something a test score needs to tell me either. Isn't this all just common sense??? Even if you go to private/Catholic schools, each school may have their own brand of problems. Nobody wants to be a teacher anymore. Not even the good ones

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They were getting bad before Covid. Covid made it way worse. The state of the country and politics don’t help. The USA has become a free for all, whatever you can get away with. Being a decent human isn’t rewarded.

+1

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote: Public schools are a joke and beyond the social aspect provide little value.

This is false.

you bet...

Public schools are better than parochial schools and both are way better than home schooling.

for learning?

Yeah. Home school is so poorly regulated in a lot of places that parents can teach kids nothing or even transparently false superstitious nonsense and not be breaking any laws or suffer any consequences. Bill Gothard's "Advance Training Institute" curriculum ("wisdom booklets") used by a lot of homeschoolers for decades, for example, is a joke.

Homeschoolers typically score better than both public and private school students on standardized tests and there are plenty of public school students being taught false superstitious nonsense.

This. Home-schooling has always out performed public education, and even private education most of the time.

The average home-schooled child at 18 is academically equivalent to most graduating College Graduates now.

That's why home-schooling has skyrocketed in the last decade.

As a teacher, half of the home school students that have left me are clearly being pulled for mental health issues on the parent’s side or because parents are tired of the kid constantly getting trouble at school and doing little work. Often times the kids come back after not having any work to show when investigators come to check in the portfolio. Homeschooling has become an easy way to drop out now that kids cannot do it until age 18 in Maryland.

[Anonymous]

I would homeschool. I work very part time, have two degrees and taught for years. But there are two things holding me back.

1) My child is an only child. I think he needs the socialization and structure of school. Co-ops and local homeschool options are all VERY religious.
2) I don't want people to assume that we are weird and extremely religious. There's absolutely a stigma with homeschooling, even though it has become more popular.

[Anonymous]

Naw. They were pretty pathetic pre pandemic aswell

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would homeschool. I work very part time, have two degrees and taught for years. But there are two things holding me back.

1) My child is an only child. I think he needs the socialization and structure of school. Co-ops and local homeschool options are all VERY religious.
2) I don't want people to assume that we are weird and extremely religious. There's absolutely a stigma with homeschooling, even though it has become more popular.

This is increasingly less true. You have to look for them, but non religious (and even anti-religious) homeschool groups are growing.

[Anonymous]

We’re based in Michigan and even the top 1, 2 and 3 wealthiest districts are a joke. School of choice, residency fraud, apartments, and rental houses have destroyed everything. Plus activist school board members and carpetbagging superintendents who don’t give a damn about local families. It’s a s*** show. Everyone with money yanks their kids out of public.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The parents are the problem. There seem to be very many who are ignorant and entitled who expect schools to do the child rearing for them. They also don't seem to grasp the basics of how to get their kids ahead in school but they fully expect that it will happen by other people's hands. Often it's their lifestyle and parenting that has caused their kids to drain public resources.

+1000000

The US school system is enabling this by promising every child will be educated to the same level. Many PPs have compared the US to other countries. Well, in other countries kids are sorted and tracked based on their demonstrated ability. It forces their parents to be involved.

For those uninvolved parents, they need a clear risk of their child being tracked for vocational school to shake some sense into them. I truely believe that would solve so many problems in the US school system. But truth is, none of PPs bemoaning our public schools want to risk their child being tracked for vocational school either. So it will never happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would homeschool. I work very part time, have two degrees and taught for years. But there are two things holding me back.

1) My child is an only child. I think he needs the socialization and structure of school. Co-ops and local homeschool options are all VERY religious.
2) I don't want people to assume that we are weird and extremely religious. There's absolutely a stigma with homeschooling, even though it has become more popular.

This is increasingly less true. You have to look for them, but non religious (and even anti-religious) homeschool groups are growing.

DP here but someone who totally agrees with the PP -- I have a background and schedule that would accommodate homeschooling but see the same drawbacks.

In my area there are mostly religious homeschool options. There are a couple that are not openly religious but they are... weird. It's a lot of people who have what are essentially unpopular ideas about raising kids. Anti-vaxxers. Or at the other end there are some homeschool groups that formed post-Covid that are basically a group of parents with health anxiety who started homeschooling so that they could tightly control their family's exposure to even common colds. There is a TON of judgment in these groups around everything from what your kids eat to how they dress but also everyone self-identifies as counterculture which has a tendency to confirm that whatever they think is correct.

It's not a good option if you just want a positive learning environment and a good curriculum for your kid but don't want to join a cult.

It's possible there are more options elsewhere but where I live the sane people who are unhappy with public schools just go to one of the many private schools in the area. Our problem is that we don't like the publics but can't really afford private even if we really stretch (and certainly not starting in elementary school). I've looked pretty seriously at homeschooling but it just doesn't offer the alternative I'd hope for.

A significant majority of people in our area who homeschool for elementary wind up going private or moving for middle anyway.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Yes, time for school choice in all 50 states.

Oh sure honey. Take your 10k and apply it to our private school.
Of course our private will just raise tuition another 10k…

I’m sure private schools would love it if families who might apply for financial aid already had 10k covered by an alternate source. While $10,000 in vouchers wouldn’t allow everyone to apply, it would certainly increase the pool of qualified applicants, including qualified applicants who are diverse in various ways. I don’t see why they would raise tuition, especially if voucher money replaced some of their financial aid budget.

Umm, because private schools are private businesses whose primarily goal is maximizing profits? Put another way, I don't see why they wouldn't raise tuition in that scenario. Maybe not by the full $10k, and maybe not as a 1-year step, but a couple grand a year for a few years straight? No doubt.

Umm … the vast majority of private schools are non-profits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Public schools are a joke and beyond the social aspect provide little value.

This is false.

you bet...

Public schools are better than parochial schools and both are way better than home schooling.

for learning?

Yeah. Home school is so poorly regulated in a lot of places that parents can teach kids nothing or even transparently false superstitious nonsense and not be breaking any laws or suffer any consequences. Bill Gothard's "Advance Training Institute" curriculum ("wisdom booklets") used by a lot of homeschoolers for decades, for example, is a joke.

Homeschoolers typically score better than both public and private school students on standardized tests and there are plenty of public school students being taught false superstitious nonsense.

This. Home-schooling has always out performed public education, and even private education most of the time.

The average home-schooled child at 18 is academically equivalent to most graduating College Graduates now.

That's why home-schooling has skyrocketed in the last decade.

As a teacher, half of the home school students that have left me are clearly being pulled for mental health issues on the parent’s side or because parents are tired of the kid constantly getting trouble at school and doing little work. Often times the kids come back after not having any work to show when investigators come to check in the portfolio. Homeschooling has become an easy way to drop out now that kids cannot do it until age 18 in Maryland.

You are either lying or are ignorant. In Montgomery County, homeschoolers are reviewed by either a private umbrella group or by MCPS reviewers twice a school year. If a student's course of education is found deficient, the parent has a period of time to correct the issue. A parent has to show the child is receiving " regular and thorough" instruction in 8 subjects.

[Anonymous]

Do parents with good students also feel that public schools are getting bad? Or is it only parents of struggling students feel that it is getting bad?

What does getting bad even mean?

I generally do not have high expectations for public schools but have high expectations or my kids. There are things I hear about school I am not a fan of, like the pace of learning, and use of Chromebooks, but my kids are doing fine and I don't feel like "schools are getting bad". It is about as expected.

[Anonymous]

Our school in MD went down hill due to covid catch up and budget cuts. We moved to Harford County for the schools from Baltimore county because the schools were more evenly funded and had relatively newer facilities. That being said, we saw a significant decline in programs and staffing after the pandemic.

Additionally they've taken steps to remove AP African American Studies and other programs to focus heavily on trades or "Career and Technology Education"... certificates to nowhere as I refer to them since most of the certificates offered are not highly regarded by industry professionals.

They also moved US History to 9th grade and most schools do not offer the APUSH option.

In terms of programs for gifted and talented, they have been stripped.

For students needing assistance, those services too have been stripped and summer school was not offered this past summer.

We moved to private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Public schools are a joke and beyond the social aspect provide little value.

This is false.

you bet...

Public schools are better than parochial schools and both are way better than home schooling.

for learning?

Yeah. Home school is so poorly regulated in a lot of places that parents can teach kids nothing or even transparently false superstitious nonsense and not be breaking any laws or suffer any consequences. Bill Gothard's "Advance Training Institute" curriculum ("wisdom booklets") used by a lot of homeschoolers for decades, for example, is a joke.

Homeschoolers typically score better than both public and private school students on standardized tests and there are plenty of public school students being taught false superstitious nonsense.

This. Home-schooling has always out performed public education, and even private education most of the time.

The average home-schooled child at 18 is academically equivalent to most graduating College Graduates now.

That's why home-schooling has skyrocketed in the last decade.

As a teacher, half of the home school students that have left me are clearly being pulled for mental health issues on the parent’s side or because parents are tired of the kid constantly getting trouble at school and doing little work. Often times the kids come back after not having any work to show when investigators come to check in the portfolio. Homeschooling has become an easy way to drop out now that kids cannot do it until age 18 in Maryland.

You are either lying or are ignorant. In Montgomery County, homeschoolers are reviewed by either a private umbrella group or by MCPS reviewers twice a school year. If a student's course of education is found deficient, the parent has a period of time to correct the issue. A parent has to show the child is receiving " regular and thorough" instruction in 8 subjects.

The point is that many “home schoolers” are not doing this. They are abusing the home school system to pull their kids out of school for bad reasons. Last spring one of kids was pulled for homeschooling after the parent went crazy in the office demanding her son only be in AP classes. The kid was barely literate kid, did no work in class and hadn’t been in school for over a year. He and the family member taking care of him were homeless yet they were allowed to “homeschool”. I have seen this happen many times in my career. Kids drop out and sign up for some BS online high school program or nothing at all.

[Anonymous]

The public school system is a disgrace.