Please stop assuming women with lower salaries are un- or under-educated

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To 10:26

"Not if they don't have to! Given the choice, most people would prefer for family to come first and work second. This is why some women stay at home if they can and why many opt out due to lack of flexibility even if they would prefer to continue working in some capacity."

But it's not a choice of work or family coming first. It's starting from the predicate that all able bodied adults should be able to, should the need arise, support themselves entirely on their own, including any children they have. How is that not putting family first?

"Given your many posts on this topic across a number of threads, you seem to have pretty warped priorities (work always! work comes first!) and way too much time to pass judgment on other people who choose differently than you do."

I'm sorry you think having a good work ethic means my priorities are warped. I'm not passing judgment, I'm trying to understand other people's outlook. I'd think that trying to find a job to fit your family's schedule is not only difficult, but would be hard to continually adjust as your kids got older, your spouse's job situation changed, etc. To me, it's just way easier to plan for both parents to WOH FT and build everything around that. At least that's not variable.

Just because someone stays at home for awhile does not mean that they won't ever be able to support their children if the need arises in the future. I understand that you place the ultimate importance on having and keeping a paying job no matter what. I don't. My husband and I have decided together that right now the best thing for our family is for me to stay at home with our children and for him to work outside of the home. This does not mean that I have a poor work ethic, and no one who has skimmed these threads could possibly believe that you are "trying to understand other people's outlook." You're not. You think that everyone who is able to should have a paying job even if they don't need the money and don't want one. We got it. Don't stay home, don't ask for flexible hours. We got it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I work in BigLaw and we don't hire outside of top 10 law schools and only give offers to A students, preferably former federal clerks. There are a lot of assholes here.

Well, there's BigLaw and there's BigLaw. There are lots of BigLaw's populated with lawyers pooled from second tier schools that were not on Law Review. My sister is one of them.

[Anonymous]

to 11:54

" I understand that you place the ultimate importance on having and keeping a paying job no matter what. I don't. "

Okay then you have no right to complain about how expensive college is, that you won't be able to retire, early, etc.

[Anonymous]

To 11:01 - how much of your hard earned income must you pay to be able to drive on the roads? Is 35% enough for you?

And no, I don't believe we need to run lots of foreign countries, I mean, have an overseas presence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:to 11:54

" I understand that you place the ultimate importance on having and keeping a paying job no matter what. I don't. "

Okay then you have no right to complain about how expensive college is, that you won't be able to retire, early, etc.

Agreed. Where am I complaining about that? It's under control. If we couldn't afford for me to stay home, I wouldn't stay home. If things change in the future, I'll do differently. Fake thanks for all your fake concern about other people's finances, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:to 11:54

" I understand that you place the ultimate importance on having and keeping a paying job no matter what. I don't. "

Okay then you have no right to complain about how expensive college is, that you won't be able to retire, early, etc.

Agreed. Where am I complaining about that? It's under control. If we couldn't afford for me to stay home, I wouldn't stay home. If things change in the future, I'll do differently. Fake thanks for all your fake concern about other people's finances, though.

This is an excellent response. Brava!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To 21:13 -

"I don't think that that very small percentage of the workforce who would choose to opt out should dictate what those of us who stay in the workforce are stuck with (rigid schedules that worked well when most men had SAH wives but don't work so well now)."

I think a high percentage of the female, mother workforce would choose to opt out no matter what the workday and workplace structure is like. Over and over again on here, I read about women with jobs, not careers, women who don't think it's worth it to WOH FT to clear 5 figures plus maxing out their 401(k)s, and I know what I see with the SAHMs and pt WOHMs where I live. It's a lack of a desire to work that drives them to opt out, plain and simple. They don't think they should have to crank it at work now that they're moms.

I don't get why both parents working 8:30 to 5:30 doesn't work for the vast majority of families (those without special needs children who require lots of appointments). Can you explain that to me?

I work outside of the home, but do so PT b/c I couldn't find any place or person willing to watch my kids at 6:30 am when I was heading out the door. FT in my profession starts at 7 am - with very little wiggle room. So I had to take on an abbreviated schedule for childcare purposes. I posted on neighborhood listservs, too, and each SAHM I asked wouldn't take on the added responsibility despite being compensated.

I don't lack ambition; I lack job flexibility, which will ultimately prevent me from climbing for now.

[Anonymous]

To 12:33

Fair enough. Good to know you can get a job supporting yourself and all of your children and cover college and retirement, even if you SAH for years. Don't know many people who could do that.

[Anonymous]

To 17:43

Gosh, Kindercare opens at 6:30. Or do you not want a chain daycare? Your DH can't watch the kids between 6:30 am and whenever he leaves for work? Can you afford a nanny to come at 6:30 am so you can start work at 7 am?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To 17:43

Gosh, Kindercare opens at 6:30. Or do you not want a chain daycare? Your DH can't watch the kids between 6:30 am and whenever he leaves for work? Can you afford a nanny to come at 6:30 am so you can start work at 7 am?

Not 17:43, but can you give it a rest already? Not everyone has the same kind of job, the same career, the same hours, the same goals, the same family. People don't all want what you want and it's OKAY. It is none of your business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To 17:43

Gosh, Kindercare opens at 6:30. Or do you not want a chain daycare? Your DH can't watch the kids between 6:30 am and whenever he leaves for work? Can you afford a nanny to come at 6:30 am so you can start work at 7 am?

Not 17:43, but can you give it a rest already? Not everyone has the same kind of job, the same career, the same hours, the same goals, the same family. People don't all want what you want and it's OKAY. It is none of your business.

Aw...don't put a stop to the crazy train. I was enjoying this!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To zumba mama at 10:12

" I still maintain relationships with my colleagues and superiors, and see them on a weekly basis, but I don't need to be in the office daily to communicate or meet deadlines."

In my experience, the best working relationships are built on chance encounters in the hallways, or chats directly after in person meetings. A phone call or e-mail just isn't as good. I wouldn't be able to build close enough enough relationships with colleagues and superiors by seeing them only once a week. Your work is obviously of a type that allows you to do that. My work is not primarily about a finished, objectively veriable work product.

I agree. It depends on your field and what you want out of your career. I do have to pass on projects that require a more rigid workday, but flexibility is valuable to me, so I prefer to only take on the projects I can pretty much do solo and fit in between teaching 10-15 classes a week. So if such a position benefits both myself and a company looking to cut back but still retain designers for such projects, then the alternative schedule is a win-win for us. The people who want 9-5 can have 9-5, and people like me can fill the more flexible positions. There's a need for both.

But even when I was full time at previous jobs, a lot of my client relationships were long distance anyway. New software programs have evolved in my industry to allow teams of people to work together remotely one one project. I had many clients I'd never met face to face. And over the course of several years of phoning and emailing, we developed relationships anyway. Maybe not as strong as the ones with people in my own office, but modern communication technology can allow business relationships to grow through the wire too.

[Anonymous]

to 17:59 - she says she can't work because her career is inflexible. I gave her 3 ways she could work, possibly. I'd like to see her say she doesn't want to work enough to [fill in the blank - get the kids to daycare by 6:30, have her husband watch the kids from 6:30 until 8, use Kindercare or other chain daycare, pay for a nanny].

CAN'T work, or doesn't want to work, given all the facts and circumstances? I won't "give it a rest" until the poster in question admits she just doesn't want to get to work by 7 am each work day. That's not the fault of her job, her employer or society.

What am I saying that's crazy?

[Anonymous]

To 18:21

"The people who want 9-5 can have 9-5, and people like me can fill the more flexible positions. There's a need for both.:

In some professions, you take a huge paycut to fill a more flexible position. To some people, it's worth it for the flexibility. It's never been worth it to me. As one poster said, I wouldn't get out of bed for only $150K a year though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:to 17:59 - she says she can't work because her career is inflexible. I gave her 3 ways she could work, possibly. I'd like to see her say she doesn't want to work enough to [fill in the blank - get the kids to daycare by 6:30, have her husband watch the kids from 6:30 until 8, use Kindercare or other chain daycare, pay for a nanny].

CAN'T work, or doesn't want to work, given all the facts and circumstances? I won't "give it a rest" until the poster in question admits she just doesn't want to get to work by 7 am each work day. That's not the fault of her job, her employer or society.

What am I saying that's crazy?

What are you saying that's crazy? Everything. You don't know these people! You don't know their jobs! They don't have to justify their choices to you! They can have whatever job at whatever hours they want!