lax culture from an insider

[Anonymous]

That sounds really great. But the cost is crazy! I may be wrong but I think that is twice what other clubs charge, no?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:3d has the best business model right now. Not the best high school teams per se, but a good model that works. The problem was the Loudon location for practices just deflated people from other areas but it sounds like they fixed that.

Our youngest son plays for a 3d 2019 team, and after speaking to some dads from the older classes I don't hear any horror stories. At $1800 twice a year it is expensive, but that is not a knock on the 3d coaches. Spencer Ford ad Steven Brooks have more lacrosse credibility than Cabell Maddox, Ryan McClernan and Trig combined. Both are college and MLL legends. They are also flexible with families. There are PVI kids who come over and guest play for a tournament or two and then ask Spencer and Steven to help them with recruiting. Crabs kids guest play all the time on the 3d HS teams also for the same reasons. I've heard nothing but positives about how Spencer and Steven guided kids through the process for none of the credit to 3d for "getting them committed".

They also have a philosophy that is refreshing to hear when they spoke to our son who is going into the recruiting years. They told my son that right now he should not be doing videos and going to prospect days and should spend his time, and our family should spend our lacrosse budget, on training and development. Then as a soph or junior there will be good fits for him at a strong D3 academic school or possibly a Patriot League team depending on his development. They were also honest to say they can't place him -- the college coaches respect them because they refer a fit not force a fit. The recruiting works out for kids the colleges want and the 3d guys help guide that without a lot of drama to take credit for it. I think it is a good club.

Glad to hear it's working for you, but as someone whose kid went through all of this and is now in college, you lack a little perspective.

1. 3d MidAtlantic is, as you noted, twice as expensive as anyone else. That is the 3d model, and you are not getting anywhere near the value for your money. Jamie Munro is making a ton of money with his 3d Blue Chip satellite events and is charging a huge markup. $3600 a year is outrageous.

2. Ford and Brooks both had successful college and pro careers, but that has nothing to do with coaching or running a club.

3. Spencer Ford is one of the most loathed people in lacrosse. He used to coach for the Crabs before they kicked him out. He is a maniac on the sidelines and they canned him because of the blowups he had against other teams, officials and his own players. Then he burned bridges with FCA and other clubs. He is not a good role model at all for kids. Just ask people in Baltimore.

4. 3d MidAtlantic tried to get kids from Maryland, but it has been a failure so far, mostly due to nobody in MD wanting to do with Spencer Ford. They have a sprinkling of MD guys mostly from Annapolis, but that's about it. They have pretty given up on MD because the only MD kids they've been able to attract have been those who either weren't on clubs or were buried on the bench.

5. 3d bought Fuze which is why they were based in Loudoun. But now they have abandoned those kids if they are truly moving to Fairfax. Not sure that's a good move because it means more competition from Madlax, VLC and Blackwolf.

6. It's fine if college recruiting is not for a particular kid. But 3d plays in mostly 2nd tier tournaments against 2nd tier competition. They are definitely not playing in the events that get the attention from coaches.

If you don't mind paying 2x more and not playing with/against better kids, then maybe it works for you. But most kids playing HS club have different agendas.

[Anonymous]

How much do Madlax and VLC cost? Club Blue runs about $2500. $3600 does seem on the high end but not sure it blows away the fees for other clubs.

[Anonymous]

my son played in 3 events this summer: Under Armour Shootout, NHS Showcase and a session of the Baltimore Summer Kickoff and the entry fees for those three totaled over $1100 and then we all kicked in $300 for uniforms and coaches' stipends...our school has the fields. That's $1400 right there for summer. UA Shootout alone is about $550 per kid including dorms and meals at the tournament. Lots of other tournaments are as expensive as those three.

Quite honestly if it doesn't cost $1500 plus or minus some it doesn't make sense to me anyone would represent that. Summer club lacrosse and fall club lacrosse is really expensive because the events are very expensive. Unless your team runs events and waives fees for the home club -- don't see how the earlier commenter could be on target. $1800 sounds like high end and a bit too expensive to me, but not by a lot. Funny how dads from some of these rival clubs seemed to get all boozed up and attack anything and everything not Madlax or Crabs / VLC. It's a bad look. BTW, nearly every kid playing on HS club teams for Madlax and Crabs go to prep schools that play summer events on top of club fees. The local prep schools don't subsidize the costs when prep teams go to additional summer events.

The average Landon, Bullis, PVI, Gonzaga parents are all paying over $1000 for summer only in addition to club. And nearly all of them play club.

[Anonymous]

Maybe Kevin Giblin was way ahead of his time to tell kids when you come to Prep you are done with your club. They do all the fall and summer stuff club teams do and more training. It's a very expensive school but at least he did it in a way that was pretty simple and easier for lacrosse families.

[Anonymous]

Performance Lacrosse runs some decent HS teams and go to good summer events. Bethesda based club.

[Anonymous]

The most loathed people in lacrosse are Cabell Maddox and Ryan McClernan. It would be a mistake to write anyone else into the category of those two. College coaches have no respect or admiration for either guy. Coaches have stomached dealing with both because those two have run an oligopoly over club lacrosse player inventory for years. Both guys run a fear based system that preys on the lacrosse ambitions of kids and their parents. Make an enemy of me and I will ruin you.

I counted not fewer than 13 Madlax, Crabs and VLC 2016s and 2017s and 2018s guest played for 3d regional teams at the FLG rosters spread over Mid-Atlantic, Colorado and NE teams that I counted and most of these kids were committed players. It says a lot when kids from other top programs who have no recruiting edge to gain keep coming over to play and are taken in to play for a regional or 3d national team.

Over the winter Spencer coached two kids who played box for the first time and developed them into players who made the USA U-19 indoor team. They're both rising high school juniors playing on a national team that includes kids who started at Harvard, Drexel, Hofstra and Lehigh last year. I'd say that isn't a shabby player development accomplishment.

[Anonymous]

If your son is in HS, that's a fall and summer session with his club. For a youth team, add in a spring session.

Even if the 3d parent has a kid who just finished youth ball, that should be no more than $1800-$2500. Charging $3600 no matter how many practices/games/tournaments is highway robbery.

As for Performance, their HS teams are pretty bad and they play in 2nd tier tournaments. The owner is a good guy, though, and his club will get better eventually, but it's not there yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The most loathed people in lacrosse are Cabell Maddox and Ryan McClernan. It would be a mistake to write anyone else into the category of those two. College coaches have no respect or admiration for either guy. Coaches have stomached dealing with both because those two have run an oligopoly over club lacrosse player inventory for years. Both guys run a fear based system that preys on the lacrosse ambitions of kids and their parents. Make an enemy of me and I will ruin you.

I counted not fewer than 13 Madlax, Crabs and VLC 2016s and 2017s and 2018s guest played for 3d regional teams at the FLG rosters spread over Mid-Atlantic, Colorado and NE teams that I counted and most of these kids were committed players. It says a lot when kids from other top programs who have no recruiting edge to gain keep coming over to play and are taken in to play for a regional or 3d national team.

Over the winter Spencer coached two kids who played box for the first time and developed them into players who made the USA U-19 indoor team. They're both rising high school juniors playing on a national team that includes kids who started at Harvard, Drexel, Hofstra and Lehigh last year. I'd say that isn't a shabby player development accomplishment.

1. Nobody is more disliked in the club lacrosse world than the Madlax guy. Nobody.

2. The Crabs guys is disliked by many, but most of them are either jealous of his club and/or dislike that he's led the movement for grade based youth teams.

3. As a parent of a kid on another club who has been asked several times to moonlight for 3d, you are correct that many kids have played for 3d in addition to their primary club. But you are misrepresenting the reasons why. 3d has asked many kids to play with them in the hopes of poaching those kids, so they offer them discounted prices to play in a tournament here or there. But the strategy has failed because very few of those kids moved over. The few who have gone to 3d were dissatisfied with their playing time or recruiting progress. Those that continue to play for 3d here or there are not doing it because they love the 3d teaching. They either do it simply to get some more reps or because they attend PVI and feel they have to do it to stay in Brooks' good graces.

3. Ford has burned bridges with multiple clubs in Maryland. He seems like a nice guy in person, but is an absolute maniac as a coach.

[Anonymous]

Can't kids just play for their HS team and go to showcase camps at the school of their choice especially if they are looking at a D3 SLAC?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can't kids just play for their HS team and go to showcase camps at the school of their choice especially if they are looking at a D3 SLAC?

Yes, and that would work out well for him. Our son goes to boarding school so it is awkward with the clubs that are adamant about a multiple season commitment. There are several sign up individual showcase events, most notably the Under Armour underclass or Brine one. Most colleges in all the divisions do prospect events which are also sign up. You could play a full summer just doing those things.

I am frankly going blank on the 3d trashing. Flexibility is exactly why our son does one or two summer tournaments with them these past two years. I never got a pitch to dump out of something else or go there full time, but maybe that is because they know we can't do more and are accommodating. Our son is committed anyways so we don't have a recruiting reason for it. The teams and events on 3d national or 3 mid atlantic are decent, and this summer my son played on a team with kids headed to Syracuse, Georgetown and a few other notable programs. I've known Spencer Ford and Steven Brooks to be demanding coaches, but have not seen or heard of any internal complaints or horror stories. I did hear about a few families who came over expecting to play a season and then have the coaches get them committed, and sure they hopped over again to somewhere else when that didn't happen. For some lacrosse parents it is always someone else's fault their kid isn't getting noticed enough and that problem exists at every club.

BTW, our son played for Crabs as a youth and to be blunt Ryan McClernan is the most awful human being I have ever known. That dislike isn't being jealous of anything or anyone. It is based on our interactions with him which grew old over time and we just left. One of my son's Crabs coaches was Spencer Ford and the representations that he was a tyrant there is pretty far off. A good number of Crabs kids guest play for 3d for one reason -- they like Spencer and Steven and the coaching they give. Anyone who doesn't want to stay full time or not guest play again can do that without any drama, and some do. I also find it hilarious when I read about Crabs commits to places like Syracuse knowing that Spencer and Steven helped them quite a bit without being divas for any of the credit.

Get back to the Dewars loser VLC 2016 dad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't kids just play for their HS team and go to showcase camps at the school of their choice especially if they are looking at a D3 SLAC?

Yes, and that would work out well for him. Our son goes to boarding school so it is awkward with the clubs that are adamant about a multiple season commitment. There are several sign up individual showcase events, most notably the Under Armour underclass or Brine one. Most colleges in all the divisions do prospect events which are also sign up. You could play a full summer just doing those things.

I am frankly going blank on the 3d trashing. Flexibility is exactly why our son does one or two summer tournaments with them these past two years. I never got a pitch to dump out of something else or go there full time, but maybe that is because they know we can't do more and are accommodating. Our son is committed anyways so we don't have a recruiting reason for it. The teams and events on 3d national or 3 mid atlantic are decent, and this summer my son played on a team with kids headed to Syracuse, Georgetown and a few other notable programs. I've known Spencer Ford and Steven Brooks to be demanding coaches, but have not seen or heard of any internal complaints or horror stories. I did hear about a few families who came over expecting to play a season and then have the coaches get them committed, and sure they hopped over again to somewhere else when that didn't happen. For some lacrosse parents it is always someone else's fault their kid isn't getting noticed enough and that problem exists at every club.

BTW, our son played for Crabs as a youth and to be blunt Ryan McClernan is the most awful human being I have ever known. That dislike isn't being jealous of anything or anyone. It is based on our interactions with him which grew old over time and we just left. One of my son's Crabs coaches was Spencer Ford and the representations that he was a tyrant there is pretty far off. A good number of Crabs kids guest play for 3d for one reason -- they like Spencer and Steven and the coaching they give. Anyone who doesn't want to stay full time or not guest play again can do that without any drama, and some do. I also find it hilarious when I read about Crabs commits to places like Syracuse knowing that Spencer and Steven helped them quite a bit without being divas for any of the credit.

Get back to the Dewars loser VLC 2016 dad.

Oh, you're that weird dad that always brings up VLC even when that club isn't mentioned in the discussion.

[Anonymous]

any thoughts on breakout folding into Bethesda where will most kids go

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:any thoughts on breakout folding into Bethesda where will most kids go

Did breakout merge with BLC?

[Anonymous]

Both are similar in approach and talent level so perhaps little disruption. Maybe a difference in price for some.