How big is your swim team?

[Anonymous]

I keep seeing a lot of posts where the size of a team matters. Where I’m from (large city, very large swim league, more teams than NVSL and MCSL), divisions are based on size of team and location. I’m not defending that approach, but it makes me wonder what size most of the teams are and whether this approach actually holds up in our leagues.

For kicks and giggles, can you share which league and division your team is in and how many swimmers you have on your team?

My team is NVSL Division 2 and we have about 200-215 that are eligible to swim in B meets (ie, not “pre-team” swimmers).

[Anonymous]

Not sure how big our team, but yes team size matters. It’s baked into the NVSL seeding “algorithm” too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not sure how big our team, but yes team size matters. It’s baked into the NVSL seeding “algorithm” too.

Do NVSL and/or MCSL look at the number of club swimmers and, even deeper, the number of A, AA, AAA+ swimmers on each team? Because our team is big, but we have very few A+ swimmers, so we don’t really have the level of depth it seems many of the NVSL D1 teams have, which affects our relays. Plus our swimmers are largely on their “down” year all at the same time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure how big our team, but yes team size matters. It’s baked into the NVSL seeding “algorithm” too.

Do NVSL and/or MCSL look at the number of club swimmers and, even deeper, the number of A, AA, AAA+ swimmers on each team? Because our team is big, but we have very few A+ swimmers, so we don’t really have the level of depth it seems many of the NVSL D1 teams have, which affects our relays. Plus our swimmers are largely on their “down” year all at the same time.

They look at club swimmers but they do not account for A, AA, AAA, etc swimmers on a team (likely because summers is all 50s, and an AAA swimmer in 500 free might not be relevant). They do look at your summer point scorers and whether they will stay on the team. They also take into account the transient nature of the team and swimmers moving teams as they move out of the area or move to other neighborhoods.

[Anonymous]

We have 180 swimmers on our team.

[Anonymous]

How big are the D1 teams as compared with D2 and D2? Are they similar? I know some fluctuate, but for teams that have been in D1 awhile, what are those sizes as compared with those who are consistently fluctuating or consistently in D2-3? This question marries the other poster’s question about coach payment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have 180 swimmers on our team.

What division (MCSL or NVSL)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How big are the D1 teams as compared with D2 and D2? Are they similar? I know some fluctuate, but for teams that have been in D1 awhile, what are those sizes as compared with those who are consistently fluctuating or consistently in D2-3? This question marries the other poster’s question about coach payment.

A number of the D1 teams have 250 to 400 kids on their teams. It is one of the reasons they dominate. Lots of swimmers, big bench.

I would say the top 3 divisions are at 200-250 swimmers - approximately.

Then you have teams like Fairfax that were high up because they have a group of incredibly talented swimmers but that group will age out and they will drop in the divisions. This will happen as well.

[Anonymous]

Our swim team is big and mean.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How big are the D1 teams as compared with D2 and D2? Are they similar? I know some fluctuate, but for teams that have been in D1 awhile, what are those sizes as compared with those who are consistently fluctuating or consistently in D2-3? This question marries the other poster’s question about coach payment.

A number of the D1 teams have 250 to 400 kids on their teams. It is one of the reasons they dominate. Lots of swimmers, big bench.

I would say the top 3 divisions are at 200-250 swimmers - approximately.

Then you have teams like Fairfax that were high up because they have a group of incredibly talented swimmers but that group will age out and they will drop in the divisions. This will happen as well.

It seems like having long waitlists would work against teams, but I think the swim culture in North Arlington and McLean keeps churning out talented swimmers. It seems the teams west of 66 (such as Fairfax, Old Keene Mill, Crosspointe, Orange Hunt, Little Rocky Run) benefit from big teams and/or membership availability, but somehow still don’t have the season-to-season depth. These teams often have the top PVS swimmers on their teams, but year-after-year, they don’t have 8-10 swimmers staggered across ages when their swimmers tend to be on their down year. On the flip side, talented swimmers aren’t riding the bench every other season.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How big are the D1 teams as compared with D2 and D2? Are they similar? I know some fluctuate, but for teams that have been in D1 awhile, what are those sizes as compared with those who are consistently fluctuating or consistently in D2-3? This question marries the other poster’s question about coach payment.

A number of the D1 teams have 250 to 400 kids on their teams. It is one of the reasons they dominate. Lots of swimmers, big bench.

I would say the top 3 divisions are at 200-250 swimmers - approximately.

Then you have teams like Fairfax that were high up because they have a group of incredibly talented swimmers but that group will age out and they will drop in the divisions. This will happen as well.

It seems like having long waitlists would work against teams, but I think the swim culture in North Arlington and McLean keeps churning out talented swimmers. It seems the teams west of 66 (such as Fairfax, Old Keene Mill, Crosspointe, Orange Hunt, Little Rocky Run) benefit from big teams and/or membership availability, but somehow still don’t have the season-to-season depth. These teams often have the top PVS swimmers on their teams, but year-after-year, they don’t have 8-10 swimmers staggered across ages when their swimmers tend to be on their down year. On the flip side, talented swimmers aren’t riding the bench every other season.

The massive D1 pools with supposed 10 year waitlists defy reality in their team makeup. Yet, somehow they always have enough young swimmers on their teams. You will hear of these teams parents knowing that they had to get on the waitlist five years prior to conception to land their spot on the team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have 180 swimmers on our team.

Whoa.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure how big our team, but yes team size matters. It’s baked into the NVSL seeding “algorithm” too.

Do NVSL and/or MCSL look at the number of club swimmers and, even deeper, the number of A, AA, AAA+ swimmers on each team? Because our team is big, but we have very few A+ swimmers, so we don’t really have the level of depth it seems many of the NVSL D1 teams have, which affects our relays. Plus our swimmers are largely on their “down” year all at the same time.

They look at club swimmers but they do not account for A, AA, AAA, etc swimmers on a team (likely because summers is all 50s, and an AAA swimmer in 500 free might not be relevant). They do look at your summer point scorers and whether they will stay on the team. They also take into account the transient nature of the team and swimmers moving teams as they move out of the area or move to other neighborhoods.

MCSL does not factor in team size, number of club swimmers/what time standard they have, or any movement in the division alignment model.

For better or for worse, MCSL determines divisions after each season by a computerized swim-off process. Per the narrative on swimstandards.com, “Division assignments are determined by a computerized swim-off. The median of the top 3 times from each team for each event from every dual meet is computed. Using these 3 times, each team is then swum against all other teams. Placement for the subsequent year is based on the number of wins, with ties broken by total points scored. No allowance is made for aging up or other potential changes.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure how big our team, but yes team size matters. It’s baked into the NVSL seeding “algorithm” too.

Do NVSL and/or MCSL look at the number of club swimmers and, even deeper, the number of A, AA, AAA+ swimmers on each team? Because our team is big, but we have very few A+ swimmers, so we don’t really have the level of depth it seems many of the NVSL D1 teams have, which affects our relays. Plus our swimmers are largely on their “down” year all at the same time.

They look at club swimmers but they do not account for A, AA, AAA, etc swimmers on a team (likely because summers is all 50s, and an AAA swimmer in 500 free might not be relevant). They do look at your summer point scorers and whether they will stay on the team. They also take into account the transient nature of the team and swimmers moving teams as they move out of the area or move to other neighborhoods.

MCSL does not factor in team size, number of club swimmers/what time standard they have, or any movement in the division alignment model.

For better or for worse, MCSL determines divisions after each season by a computerized swim-off process. Per the narrative on swimstandards.com, “Division assignments are determined by a computerized swim-off. The median of the top 3 times from each team for each event from every dual meet is computed. Using these 3 times, each team is then swum against all other teams. Placement for the subsequent year is based on the number of wins, with ties broken by total points scored. No allowance is made for aging up or other potential changes.”

That is kind of basic.

[Anonymous]

MCSL top third division

150 swimmers eligible to swim B meets (I like that standard used by a PP), plus 50ish preteam.