Are any other principals trying to talk families out of A1H for 6th grade?

[Anonymous]

Title says it all. I thought most AAP families in my school were going to do A1H in 6th, but now they seem to be changing their mind. Why would a principal try to hold smart kids back?

[Anonymous]

The principal had nothing to do with the choice many parents made at our school to opt out. Initially, many were choosing to opt in (when they didn’t necessarily want to) bc they thought everyone was doing it and were scared their kids would be alone on the regular advanced math path. That’s simply not the case.

Many of us opting out have kids who would likely do just fine with A1H in 6th, but we are concerned about learning gaps caused by this jump and more importantly, looked at where this level of acceleration will put our kids on the high school sequence. The high school sequence was the biggest determinant in our household. I predict a lot of regret when many of these 6th A1H kids get to freshman year of high school.

[Anonymous]

Yes. Our principal tried to tell everyone not to do it this year. But then over 60 kids signed up, so it happened full scale anyway.

I know of several elementary principals discouraging it. I think it is a logistical nightmare (scheduling struggle, staffing concerns) as well as concerns that barriers to entry are basically 0 now so kids who really aren't ready are going to do it anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Title says it all. I thought most AAP families in my school were going to do A1H in 6th, but now they seem to be changing their mind. Why would a principal try to hold smart kids back?

Because for most kids, Algebra 1 is not needed in 6th grade. A kid who gets a 400 on the 6th grade SOL should not be taking Algebra. So good for the principals having honest conversations with parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The principal had nothing to do with the choice many parents made at our school to opt out. Initially, many were choosing to opt in (when they didn’t necessarily want to) bc they thought everyone was doing it and were scared their kids would be alone on the regular advanced math path. That’s simply not the case.

Many of us opting out have kids who would likely do just fine with A1H in 6th, but we are concerned about learning gaps caused by this jump and more importantly, looked at where this level of acceleration will put our kids on the high school sequence. The high school sequence was the biggest determinant in our household. I predict a lot of regret when many of these 6th A1H kids get to freshman year of high school.

To precalc? Why? I don't predict any pain until junior or senior year when the only option is dual enrollment off campus because they finish calc BC sophomore year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The principal had nothing to do with the choice many parents made at our school to opt out. Initially, many were choosing to opt in (when they didn’t necessarily want to) bc they thought everyone was doing it and were scared their kids would be alone on the regular advanced math path. That’s simply not the case.

Many of us opting out have kids who would likely do just fine with A1H in 6th, but we are concerned about learning gaps caused by this jump and more importantly, looked at where this level of acceleration will put our kids on the high school sequence. The high school sequence was the biggest determinant in our household. I predict a lot of regret when many of these 6th A1H kids get to freshman year of high school.

To precalc? Why? I don't predict any pain until junior or senior year when the only option is dual enrollment off campus because they finish calc BC sophomore year.

Bc they removed all readiness testing requirements. There are a lot of students taking the course who are not particularly strong in math and have no business accelerating 2-yrs. But I agree, the bigger issue for most of these students will be the pain junior/senior years. My 5th grader pass advanced the 6th SOL and consistently scores 99% on MAP and I’m still not signing her up for this sequence. I see no point.

I’m not opposed to FCPS offering this option but it’s reckless to remove all testing criteria besides SOL pass. I think a lot of parents don’t really know what they’re signing up for down the road.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The principal had nothing to do with the choice many parents made at our school to opt out. Initially, many were choosing to opt in (when they didn’t necessarily want to) bc they thought everyone was doing it and were scared their kids would be alone on the regular advanced math path. That’s simply not the case.

Many of us opting out have kids who would likely do just fine with A1H in 6th, but we are concerned about learning gaps caused by this jump and more importantly, looked at where this level of acceleration will put our kids on the high school sequence. The high school sequence was the biggest determinant in our household. I predict a lot of regret when many of these 6th A1H kids get to freshman year of high school.

To precalc? Why? I don't predict any pain until junior or senior year when the only option is dual enrollment off campus because they finish calc BC sophomore year.

MS and HS teachers already tell us about kids who took A1H in 7th grade that struggled in 7th grade, struggled with Geometry in 8th grade, and fall apart in A2H in 9th grade. And that was with kids having to have 4's in math, a high iReady score, and test in the 91st percentile on the IAAT. Now they have removed all of those guidelines AND they are placing kids a year younger in Algerba 1 H.

The SOL is not a reliable indicator of how well a student has learned the material, you can pass advanced not knowing the material but knowing how to use the Desmos calculator they allow. I have no idea what the grade distribution has been in the pilot study. I do know several of my kids friends had B's in A1H in 7th grade and have B's in Geometry this year. A B is a good grade but I would want a higher grade for a kid who has been accelerated by 1-2 years in math. I also know that tutors have been used and that homework hasn't been turned in and retakes have been involved.

I fully expect that A2H is going to be painful at HS next year for some of these kids because they have not mastered the material and they are struggling with components of taking a HS class in MS. Next year they will have 4 HS classes with an increase in homework and demands and they have not had a smooth ride with HS level math alone.

There were already kids working hard in A1H and Geometry in MS, they struggle more with A2H. And if you don't think a bunch of the 6th graders taking A1H are not going down that same path, you are crazy. Some parents here have posted that their 6th grader in A1H will be retaking A1H in 7th grade but I would not be surprised to hear that a bunch of 6th graders with Bs who passed advance on the SOL are going to go on to Geometry next year. Their parents are not doing them any favors.

[Anonymous]

I don't know about messaging from the principal, but we had a pyramid-wide info session with middle and high school math teachers. They laid out the facts and it didn't sound appealing at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know about messaging from the principal, but we had a pyramid-wide info session with middle and high school math teachers. They laid out the facts and it didn't sound appealing at all.

I wish every pyramid did this. Why is there no consistency in FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know about messaging from the principal, but we had a pyramid-wide info session with middle and high school math teachers. They laid out the facts and it didn't sound appealing at all.

I wish every pyramid did this. Why is there no consistency in FCPS.

For this issue, the practitioners (teachers, central office math office) are saying something the Superintendent doesn’t want to hear or believe. Therefore, no coordination and thus confusion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know about messaging from the principal, but we had a pyramid-wide info session with middle and high school math teachers. They laid out the facts and it didn't sound appealing at all.

I wish every pyramid did this. Why is there no consistency in FCPS.

For this issue, the practitioners (teachers, central office math office) are saying something the Superintendent doesn’t want to hear or believe. Therefore, no coordination and thus confusion.

Yup. This decision is all Reid. Most of her staff disagree with this decision so I am not surprised by this at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The principal had nothing to do with the choice many parents made at our school to opt out. Initially, many were choosing to opt in (when they didn’t necessarily want to) bc they thought everyone was doing it and were scared their kids would be alone on the regular advanced math path. That’s simply not the case.

Many of us opting out have kids who would likely do just fine with A1H in 6th, but we are concerned about learning gaps caused by this jump and more importantly, looked at where this level of acceleration will put our kids on the high school sequence. The high school sequence was the biggest determinant in our household. I predict a lot of regret when many of these 6th A1H kids get to freshman year of high school.

To precalc? Why? I don't predict any pain until junior or senior year when the only option is dual enrollment off campus because they finish calc BC sophomore year.

Bc they removed all readiness testing requirements. There are a lot of students taking the course who are not particularly strong in math and have no business accelerating 2-yrs. But I agree, the bigger issue for most of these students will be the pain junior/senior years. My 5th grader pass advanced the 6th SOL and consistently scores 99% on MAP and I’m still not signing her up for this sequence. I see no point.

I’m not opposed to FCPS offering this option but it’s reckless to remove all testing criteria besides SOL pass. I think a lot of parents don’t really know what they’re signing up for down the road.

I'm not saying this is you but I think a lot of the same people that support the removal of a standardized testing filter for TJ would support a standardized testing filter here. Standardized testing filters make sense in moth cases.

[Anonymous]

Yes, our principal is discouraging it. I was very surprised. My AAP 5th grader scored 532 on 6th grade Sol, 249 in Map. He is doing 8th grade math on Khan Academy for fun.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, our principal is discouraging it. I was very surprised. My AAP 5th grader scored 532 on 6th grade Sol, 249 in Map. He is doing 8th grade math on Khan Academy for fun.

There are kids ready for A1H in 6th grade but not thousands of kids.

Te right way to run this would be to have a set bar. Kids need a MAP score of X, pass advanced on the 7th grade SOL, and score in the 91st percentile on the IAAT. They can give the IAAT only to the kids with the prerequisite MAP score and the 7th grade math SOL to the kids with the necessary MAP and IAAT scores. Kids who meet the threshold can chose to move to their ES Center and join the AAP class there, where A1H will be taught by an in-person teacher.

You would have a few hundred kids meet the thresehold and they would be able to take the class in person. There would be a smaller number of Alegebra trained teachers in the ES, kids would take the class in person, and the outcome would be better for more kids.

I suspect that there is a good number of parents expunging the Algebra grade from this years 6th grade cohort. I suspect that there will be a good number of kids who continue to geometry with a C or B from this years cohort because parents don't want to "slow down" their kid. I would love to know what percentage started the class and dropped back into Advanced Math/AAP math. But FCPS is not going to share any of that.

And I don't believe the SOL scores because Teachers can teach the kids how to use the desmos calculator to answer questions without the kids actually understanding the concepts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know about messaging from the principal, but we had a pyramid-wide info session with middle and high school math teachers. They laid out the facts and it didn't sound appealing at all.

I wish every pyramid did this. Why is there no consistency in FCPS.

For this issue, the practitioners (teachers, central office math office) are saying something the Superintendent doesn’t want to hear or believe. Therefore, no coordination and thus confusion.

Yup. This decision is all Reid. Most of her staff disagree with this decision so I am not surprised by this at all.

+1.