NYMag Horace Mann Piece

[Anonymous]

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/is-horace-mann-worth-the-cost.html

This is being shared (e.g. by Hellgate) as "Horace Mann Sucks" but actually I think it's a bit more nuanced - it kind of ties in to a thread that's come up a lot on this board lately, whether a "TT" school is actually beneficial for anything but a very specific type of kid. Clearly some of the author's classmates (who are around the same age as a lot of the people on this board) had a great experience there and went on to enormous success in life, but for a lot of others it was an unhappy time that set expectations in their heads for their adult lives that they couldn't live up to.

[Anonymous]

My take from the article is that attending HM feels like a pretty big net-positive. I think we need to ask ourselves if 1) life / career outcomes wouldn't be as good and 2) if a higher proportion of the class might languish at a high-wealth suburban public.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/is-horace-mann-worth-the-cost.html

This is being shared (e.g. by Hellgate) as "Horace Mann Sucks" but actually I think it's a bit more nuanced - it kind of ties in to a thread that's come up a lot on this board lately, whether a "TT" school is actually beneficial for anything but a very specific type of kid. Clearly some of the author's classmates (who are around the same age as a lot of the people on this board) had a great experience there and went on to enormous success in life, but for a lot of others it was an unhappy time that set expectations in their heads for their adult lives that they couldn't live up to.

I’m a trin survivor who went onto an HYP and a peer institution abroad for grad school. I’ll say that my time at trin (high school years) was pretty brutal. I think it was true for most of us. But i think by and large we ended up okay in life. I also think we had relatively realistic expectations for what our lives would be like, as well. Still, would i have maybe picked a less pressure-cooked school for myself? Maybe. My kiddo’s at dalton, which we adore. But I also don’t know if i would have accomplished the things i have without the work ethic trinity forced from me. Also seems a bit of a fruitless exercise to speculate if i’d be happier and better off without my high school experience.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like even for a "mediocre class", half of the graduates found great success in traditionally gainful careers, and many others had the confidence/foundation to pursue their own paths. If anything, I think that reflects pretty positively on Horace Mann; the 5hrs/night homework does sounds way excessive, but I've heard they've made significant strides towards a better balance in recent years.

[Anonymous]

I felt the article lacked depth and context. Coming from the 80’s when Wall Street and the economy was booming with optimism towards the future to the 2008 financial crisis that impacted the millennials generation being underemployed. I felt making it about HM was a bit forced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like even for a "mediocre class", half of the graduates found great success in traditionally gainful careers, and many others had the confidence/foundation to pursue their own paths. If anything, I think that reflects pretty positively on Horace Mann; the 5hrs/night homework does sounds way excessive, but I've heard they've made significant strides towards a better balance in recent years.

That more of a reflection of the nature of capitalism than HM. It is far easier going from $100k to millions than from zero to $100k. Being born on 3rd base helps more than attending HM.

[Anonymous]

The writer seems to have drunk the Kool-Aid of the school entirely. He reminds me of some of the boys in college who were so afraid the world wouldn’t recognize they were the next Phillip Roth (spoiler alert: they were never going to be Phillip Roth because they just didn’t have the talent).

[Anonymous]

My DS is an HM senior, and he's had a positive experience. Yes, the academics are tough, but the current culture does not seem to be as the author of that piece describes.

[Anonymous]

The article felt listless with no point.

I am a graduate of this scene (another TT) from around this time. Unlike some of the profiles folks I came from lower income and was on full scholarship.

Going to one of these schools was a transformative time that I feel remarkably lucky to have experienced.

It sounds like part of this also comes down to parental upbringing. I was fortunate in that my parents never pressured me even if the school was know to be one of the more rigorous ones.

I credit this right amount of rigor and pressure as a mix that left me with a clear sense of how to work hard. My career did not take off until my 30s as I didn’t go into a traditional path - but the”finishing school” aspect left me with skills and gifts I leverage in my professional life to this day.

I know he tried to survey his class broadly but the article just didn’t seem to make a point.

[Anonymous]

I worked like a dog in HS, as much as NYC kids and don’t regret it or think of it as abusive. I took the same standardized tests and got the same scores (without tutoring).

What I find interesting about people from these schools is that they think there is something so different about their experience from all the other secondary programs from across the world, that there is something inherently even more special about their rigorous education or more of a guarantee, I guess. The only thing I expected from doing well in high school was college admission.

They blame the work, but I think it’s the self important rhetoric that gets in their way. A very good education knocks you off your own pedestal, makes you look outside yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I worked like a dog in HS, as much as NYC kids and don’t regret it or think of it as abusive. I took the same standardized tests and got the same scores (without tutoring).

What I find interesting about people from these schools is that they think there is something so different about their experience from all the other secondary programs from across the world, that there is something inherently even more special about their rigorous education or more of a guarantee, I guess. The only thing I expected from doing well in high school was college admission.

They blame the work, but I think it’s the self important rhetoric that gets in their way. A very good education knocks you off your own pedestal, makes you look outside yourself.

Sorry, but no, we don’t. Or most of us don’t. We don’t feel special or chosen or anything. Some of us were proud that we’d been admitted, but we only saw it as a special opportunity, not a ticket or guarantee. That’s your projection. Please refrain from hoisting it on us.

Believe it or not, we worked really hard, too, in large part because we knew there were no guarantees. We had zero expectation about getting into colleges and shared the same anxieties as everyone else when opening emails on ivy day.

[Anonymous]

Horace Mann is an excellent school with great teachers, fantastic resources, and plentiful opportunities to try many different things. That’s a lot, but certainly not enough to provide any sort of guarantees for the rest of your life. The end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Horace Mann is an excellent school with great teachers, fantastic resources, and plentiful opportunities to try many different things. That’s a lot, but certainly not enough to provide any sort of guarantees for the rest of your life. The end.

This! and same for any school whether public or private. I like this synopsis the best.

[Anonymous]

I dont know where that article was about really.

But it reminded me of another article about St Ann's where the grads were in their 40s and one said something like, "I really did think I'd win an Oscar. Everyone in our class did. Or win a Pulitzer. Or be a billionaire. But famous, for sure. So to end up here, as a medium successful xyz - not even able to afford St Ann's for my own kids - is kind of a kick in the pants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I dont know where that article was about really.

But it reminded me of another article about St Ann's where the grads were in their 40s and one said something like, "I really did think I'd win an Oscar. Everyone in our class did. Or win a Pulitzer. Or be a billionaire. But famous, for sure. So to end up here, as a medium successful xyz - not even able to afford St Ann's for my own kids - is kind of a kick in the pants.

Can you please post the link? Would love to read it