Do I need to worry about the permits in my DC kitchen remodeling with small changes?

[Anonymous]

Talked to a few kitchen+bath companies and also general contractors about my kitchen remodeling job in DC, which involves moving the gas range (or switching to electric range) and fridge against the same wall by a couple feet, and taking out a sink against the same wall (I have a one row kitchen). All indicated I can go without permits since the change is small, and permit process can cause delays, although some indicated they have channels to speed it up if choose to go that route. Permits cost range from 2-5K to 10-20K depending on the company. One suggested I apply for a building permit myself as home owner and they would help if anything is needed. Not sure what I should do - any suggestions or advice? First time homeowner in DC. Thanks in advance.

[Anonymous]

In Arlington the entity that gets the permit is responsible for it passing code inspection. Arlington thus warns homeowners to be sure contractor gets the permit.

Look into this for DC.
I think the gas work at least requires permit and inspection.
DC must have a permit site. Look.

[Anonymous]

The permit costs you are being quoted seem insane. Are you saying that is just the cost of the permits, or the total cost of the jobs including the permits?

[Anonymous]

We did a kitchen remodel without a permit however we never had a gas stove. The gas hookup might need to be checked but not sure it would require a permit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The permit costs you are being quoted seem insane. Are you saying that is just the cost of the permits, or the total cost of the jobs including the permits?

The cost are for permits only - in addition to the estimates quoted for the work (some are labor only and some are labor plus materials). My understanding from one contractor is they need to find people with the right licenses/certificates to apply for the permits (seems electricity, gas, plumbing and building are separate) and that would cost extra. I think the permits themselves should not cost that much (the fees charged by the government), but applying for permits is extra work (getting documents ready, change things after review, getting inspection etc.). If they do not have the qualified people themselves, they need to pay for those services, even though the actual work might be done by them and not the people pulling the permits.

[Anonymous]

whaat.... I did a home addition 5 years ago in DC (ripped off the entire back of the rowhouse and rebuilt with new/moved kitchen, removing walls, etc) and I don't think I paid more than $1200? Maaaybe $2k, maybe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:whaat.... I did a home addition 5 years ago in DC (ripped off the entire back of the rowhouse and rebuilt with new/moved kitchen, removing walls, etc) and I don't think I paid more than $1200? Maaaybe $2k, maybe.

DP to add, we had worked with an architect so all electrical/plumbing/etc plans were worked out by the architect, we just needed to get the permits. Maybe that is the difference.

[Anonymous]

It sounds like they're planning to use unlicensed people unless you get permits, and then they'll have a master electrician etc. supervising the work. Ugh.

[Anonymous]

I would get more quotes. Like the above poster said are they using licensed people? That # sounds insane to me.

I don’t mess with gas, plumbing, or electrical. Get professionals and get permits for that! Some stuff you don’t need permits for but look on the DC website or call and talk to all the different departments.

I had work done and wanted permits. The electrical people, plumbing, and gas people
Handed. It was a couple extra hundred each permit extra which was annoying but oh well. Then when I had another contractor put in flooring (after the other work was done), I wanted a permit for that but that contractor has a license and insurance but told me to do the permit on my own and put him and his info down as a subcontractor. I had to go up the building, talk to the people and do work but it was fine. We got the permit but it was not for anything major. Honestly you need to be careful with gas, electrical, plumbing, etc. maybe you’ll only need a permit for gas if you move the stove or turn the gas off and won’t need a permit for anything else depending on the rules but you’ll need to figure that out.

Ask friends and colleagues for other names and get more quotes! I’m happy we have the permits to be honest since I don’t know if we will live here forever and it’s also peace of mind.

[Anonymous]

This is shady as hell. I just did a kitchen reno and I applied for permit myself (we added a gas stove). I’m in Arlington. It was maybe $200? Super easy. They asked really basic questions and I didn’t submit plans or anything. Inspector came out to check the gas piping and hookups and what-not. Inspector had one Q that I couldn’t answer so we called contractor and he kindly answered that detail via phone. We also upgraded electrical (heavy-up) and the electrician we hired for that handled electrical permitting for us. I don’t remember the permit cost for the electrical but that whole job was $5k max. Something is very off here. Tell the contractor you will file the permit yourself and have inspectors come out and see what happens. If they are not fine with that…run.

[Anonymous]

We’re not in DC. We did kitchen remodel last year in Fairfax County. We worked with kitchen and bath company and ended up pulling our own permits. We found it very helpful to call our county permit office. They were very helpful and the process was easy. Permits were in the hundreds of dollars, not thousands. Also, for us, permits were needed if we were making a CHANGE. We found the county’s focus was making sure the work was safe and up to necessary code.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We’re not in DC. We did kitchen remodel last year in Fairfax County. We worked with kitchen and bath company and ended up pulling our own permits. We found it very helpful to call our county permit office. They were very helpful and the process was easy. Permits were in the hundreds of dollars, not thousands. Also, for us, permits were needed if we were making a CHANGE. We found the county’s focus was making sure the work was safe and up to necessary code.

This was our experience in Arlington, as well. It was very clear they were focused on safety, not any kind of "gotcha" operation. I really appreciated the inspections and peace of mind!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Talked to a few kitchen+bath companies and also general contractors about my kitchen remodeling job in DC, which involves moving the gas range (or switching to electric range) and fridge against the same wall by a couple feet, and taking out a sink against the same wall (I have a one row kitchen). All indicated I can go without permits since the change is small, and permit process can cause delays, although some indicated they have channels to speed it up if choose to go that route. Permits cost range from 2-5K to 10-20K depending on the company. One suggested I apply for a building permit myself as home owner and they would help if anything is needed. Not sure what I should do - any suggestions or advice? First time homeowner in DC. Thanks in advance.

Plumbing permit for the gas work. Leave the sink lines capped off at the walls so you dont need to permit that and have it available for the next iteration of the kitchen.
Everything else is cosmetic.

[Anonymous]

OP - many thanks for all the suggestions! Decided to talk to an architect who can handle the permits in DC and see what to do. If necessary will go to DC government to inquire. Kitchen renovation quotes vary from 40K to 70k for my simple one row kitchen (fridge, 30 inch counter top and cabinests, range and hood above, 30 inch countertop and cabinets) plus an island of 48x72 (sink+dishwasher, no cabinets), permit excluded...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The permit costs you are being quoted seem insane. Are you saying that is just the cost of the permits, or the total cost of the jobs including the permits?

The cost are for permits only - in addition to the estimates quoted for the work (some are labor only and some are labor plus materials). My understanding from one contractor is they need to find people with the right licenses/certificates to apply for the permits (seems electricity, gas, plumbing and building are separate) and that would cost extra. I think the permits themselves should not cost that much (the fees charged by the government), but applying for permits is extra work (getting documents ready, change things after review, getting inspection etc.). If they do not have the qualified people themselves, they need to pay for those services, even though the actual work might be done by them and not the people pulling the permits.

But isn’t it also the upcharge companies include for dealing with the possibility that the permit inspector might find flaws in their work? Someone came to inspect electrical work we had done and found flaws or that it wasn’t up to code or whatever and our company had to fix it free of charge because the agreement is that if you are pulling permits you better be doing work that passes inspection.