Successful turnarounds from middle school

[Anonymous]

Is it fair to hope for grade improvement or stabilization after 8th grade?

My DS is struggling to maintain consistent grades (have
Dys/dyscal and a 504), grades yo-yo. One assignment can tank everything. Overall grades can go from A-C and back (or not) and failing math this quarter/at the moment (truly awful teacher, has barely give any homework…we are starting with a professional tutor(vs high school kid). I’m just not sure how he’s going to get through high school, which sucks because they come home with many great grades, generally understand material and suddenly a 50 on a 6 question quiz makes all the hard work meaningless





)

[Anonymous]

Of course they can change. I put in a lot of time with my son in middle school for organizing and trying to set him up with a system. To be honest, 9th grade started off well but took a nose dive and was really bad. The transition to HS was rough. Worse than 8th.

There’s good news, things slowly improved and this is a marathon. Every year after that, his ability to independently manage his assignments, complete those assignments and turn them in improved. This year as a senior he was able to do his complete huge research paper on his own with no tutor or anything from start to finish hitting all the deadlines. That included the sources, annotated bibliography, thesis, outline, MLA, several pages etc. I never thought that would have been possible in 8th grade.

So don’t give up hope. It was a long time of tutoring and me sitting with him with the backpack filled with crumpled papers and trying to find those missing assignments to get to that point. They can grow and mature. He was able and got accepted to colleges despite a terrible 9th grade year even.

[Anonymous]

Things do get harder and there’s more to manage in HS and there’s more expectations relating to independence. From what you wrote, it sounds like tests are the problem. Maybe you want to focus on learning to take tests. There are lots of test prep places that can teach that.

I think if you’re going to see improvement, you have to figure out what’s holding him back and work on that. Improvement won’t just happen and the school isn’t likely to offer the type of assistance your child needs.

[Anonymous]

My dyslexia/discalculia kid struggled all through school - he is now in college, so he made it! Yes, grades yo yo a lot and things can go south in an instant. It is really frustrating for everyone. Often the core deficit in kids with both dyslexia and discalculia is working memory. Everything slips away - the letters or words you just read, the numbers you are supposed to be multiplying, the formula you need. Of course it impacts history and science, too - the facts, definitions, etc leak away. It is emotionally crushing to the kid and leads to fatalism and lack of effort…which leads to more failure. You just have to keep plowing through.

However, the type of math tutoring can matter A LOT. Look up Marilyn’s Multisensory Math. She runs trainings for teachers and tutors plus summer sessions for kids, I think the main one is for algebra. She works with ASDEC a lot so you can probably find her workshops etc through their website, and I think they have a list of tutors trained by her.

[Anonymous]

Is a 504 enough? Is an IEP needed?

[Anonymous]

I think the kid does often improve with age, maturity, and gradually developing an organization and study system that works for them. But at the same time, the work is harder and they are maybe having the stress of transitioning to a new school, friend changes, etc, so the grades may not improve. You have to look for improvements in your kid's abilities without making it all about grade outcomes.

Some kids just need 5 years for high school and that's ok. Be at peace with it. Or consider dropping a class and making it up over the summer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is a 504 enough? Is an IEP needed?

I think the question is whether a IEP would help. Do they have a way to adapt the curriculum for him that would be helpful? In general they might drop him to lower level classes but they don’t offer a curriculum that truly meets the needs of kids with dyslexia and discalculia. They won’t fully remediate, they won’t offer a different type of teaching that would be more effective. So it may be that a robust 504 gets what you most need - things like fewer questions, more time, a scribe, etc. The challenge is that you still need your kid to learn math and learn to write essays, so you will probably (unfairly, unjustly) need to find and pay for outside help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Things do get harder and there’s more to manage in HS and there’s more expectations relating to independence. From what you wrote, it sounds like tests are the problem. Maybe you want to focus on learning to take tests. There are lots of test prep places that can teach that.

I think if you’re going to see improvement, you have to figure out what’s holding him back and work on that. Improvement won’t just happen and the school isn’t likely to offer the type of assistance your child needs.

This. Sorry but our experience is that school and grade issues get worse in high school, not better. I think you need a plan, not hope.

[Anonymous]

OP here-- Thanks all, really appreciate these kind and thoughtful responses. I was in a bit of a doom moment last night so was hasty/sloppy in my post in the darkness on my phone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Things do get harder and there’s more to manage in HS and there’s more expectations relating to independence. From what you wrote, it sounds like tests are the problem. Maybe you want to focus on learning to take tests. There are lots of test prep places that can teach that.

I think if you’re going to see improvement, you have to figure out what’s holding him back and work on that. Improvement won’t just happen and the school isn’t likely to offer the type of assistance your child needs.

This. Sorry but our experience is that school and grade issues get worse in high school, not better. I think you need a plan, not hope.

Thank you, I basically have no hope and am coming up with plans for his future left and right. Right now, as I see options as--
-that he will manage to graduate with a C average (or less). Start at community college (or not)
-go to a specialized LD school to complete high school. Not ideal, the ones in our area are solid academically but lack the extras. If we were in the DC area or somewhere else we would be pursuing this. I think this would be crushing for him.
-let him get to 16, drop out and work in a chosen field (doesn't necessarily need a degree), start a business (he has many ideas) with our support and guidance/oversight. Get a GED and take community college classes in business or practical skills
-he doesn't have great fine motor skills so the "just do a trade" response wouldn't work (unless there is a trade I'm missing).
-Open to him finding another AD (or less) type job he likes kids so he could work at a daycare/childcare center that accepts non-degrees. Trust me, when I check in at the doctor's office and see the receptionists in their mid-20s working at reception I'm picturing my kid there in a few years.

***I realize this sounds snarky that's not my intention

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Things do get harder and there’s more to manage in HS and there’s more expectations relating to independence. From what you wrote, it sounds like tests are the problem. Maybe you want to focus on learning to take tests. There are lots of test prep places that can teach that.

I think if you’re going to see improvement, you have to figure out what’s holding him back and work on that. Improvement won’t just happen and the school isn’t likely to offer the type of assistance your child needs.

This. Sorry but our experience is that school and grade issues get worse in high school, not better. I think you need a plan, not hope.

Thank you, I basically have no hope and am coming up with plans for his future left and right. Right now, as I see options as--
-that he will manage to graduate with a C average (or less). Start at community college (or not)
-go to a specialized LD school to complete high school. Not ideal, the ones in our area are solid academically but lack the extras. If we were in the DC area or somewhere else we would be pursuing this. I think this would be crushing for him.
-let him get to 16, drop out and work in a chosen field (doesn't necessarily need a degree), start a business (he has many ideas) with our support and guidance/oversight. Get a GED and take community college classes in business or practical skills
-he doesn't have great fine motor skills so the "just do a trade" response wouldn't work (unless there is a trade I'm missing).
-Open to him finding another AD (or less) type job he likes kids so he could work at a daycare/childcare center that accepts non-degrees. Trust me, when I check in at the doctor's office and see the receptionists in their mid-20s working at reception I'm picturing my kid there in a few years.

***I realize this sounds snarky that's not my intention

I don't know your kid, but this sounds overly pessimistic for a kid who is, at times, getting As.

There are a couple of reasons for hope in high school:
1) More tracking - getting honors or AP kids into different classes slows down the regular track a bit and makes it more manageable
2) Option to drop subjects - taking only the minimum required years of certain subjects
3) Maturity - your kid will start to account better for their strengths and weaknesses.
4) More options to retake classes over the summer.

I would take a plan for the best, prepare for the worst approach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My dyslexia/discalculia kid struggled all through school - he is now in college, so he made it! Yes, grades yo yo a lot and things can go south in an instant. It is really frustrating for everyone. Often the core deficit in kids with both dyslexia and discalculia is working memory. Everything slips away - the letters or words you just read, the numbers you are supposed to be multiplying, the formula you need. Of course it impacts history and science, too - the facts, definitions, etc leak away. It is emotionally crushing to the kid and leads to fatalism and lack of effort…which leads to more failure. You just have to keep plowing through.

However, the type of math tutoring can matter A LOT. Look up Marilyn’s Multisensory Math. She runs trainings for teachers and tutors plus summer sessions for kids, I think the main one is for algebra. She works with ASDEC a lot so you can probably find her workshops etc through their website, and I think they have a list of tutors trained by her.

Thank you for these specific recommendations! I realized I abbreviated too quickly but he has dyscalc and dysgraphia (not dyslexia) but know there is some overlap. We are considering a general math tutor who also worked with the standard test prep companies, and perhaps there are important tips that can be taught now. Strangely I know he would be much better off with harder tests. I'll look more into Marilyn; hopefully some virtual options or things outside of DC. Our DS has some interest and solid understanding of some quantitative nature--it's a devastating double whammy that he has a math LD AND a bad teacher (by all accounts)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is a 504 enough? Is an IEP needed?

I think the question is whether a IEP would help. Do they have a way to adapt the curriculum for him that would be helpful? In general they might drop him to lower level classes but they don’t offer a curriculum that truly meets the needs of kids with dyslexia and discalculia. They won’t fully remediate, they won’t offer a different type of teaching that would be more effective. So it may be that a robust 504 gets what you most need - things like fewer questions, more time, a scribe, etc. The challenge is that you still need your kid to learn math and learn to write essays, so you will probably (unfairly, unjustly) need to find and pay for outside help.

Thanks!
His 504 is new this year (did testing late spring 2005). He was denied an IEP and we were in agreement. His private neuropsych (with decades of experience) also didn't think it would be an IEP. Based on my knowledge, I'm not sure what in an IEP would help (but would love to hear if there is something).

His 504 includes extra time, quiet room and typing; one time this accommodations fell through the cracks (so I need to work with DS to make sure he always asks). It started out with 1 subject only and then we expanded it.

The biggest challenge/frustration is that often times that bad results are based on granular minutia that can't be applied across the board/in the future (e.g. one type of question--but asked 5 different times--tripped him up.

[Anonymous]

8th grade is so young, especially if your kid is slower to mature! Especially if he just got diagnosed. I have been periodically spinning out about my kid’s future since elementary school and things have changed so much over time.

There was a mom on here who described her getting her son through high school and into a long term job. She focused on getting her kid graduated from high school minimizing mental health issues. It made me clarify to myself what my goals are for my kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Things do get harder and there’s more to manage in HS and there’s more expectations relating to independence. From what you wrote, it sounds like tests are the problem. Maybe you want to focus on learning to take tests. There are lots of test prep places that can teach that.

I think if you’re going to see improvement, you have to figure out what’s holding him back and work on that. Improvement won’t just happen and the school isn’t likely to offer the type of assistance your child needs.

This. Sorry but our experience is that school and grade issues get worse in high school, not better. I think you need a plan, not hope.

Agreed—9th grade was a rude awakening. Get your ducks in a row now: IEP, tutors, meds—whatever is applicable