Well KNown Nova Based Design Build Firm Stiffed Sub

[Anonymous]

And now the sub is threatening to put a lien on our house. We had already paid the design build firm for this work.

I have no interest in paying twice.

Advice?

[Anonymous]

* OP again

Relevent info:

The work was performed way past 90 days ago so I'm doubtful the lien would stick
- It's not a huge sume ($1000) but, as my dad would say, it's the principle of the matter.

[Anonymous]

What was response from the DB firm?

[Anonymous]

What did your contract with the design build firm say? Are they bonded?

Did it explicitly include the work the sub did in the price?

[Anonymous]

If you didn't have an agreement with the Sub, you don't owe the money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you didn't have an agreement with the Sub, you don't owe the money.

That’s not how it works. It’s called a mechanic’s lien.

https://www.sandsanderson.com/insights/thought/nobodys-perfected-the-complex-landscape-of-mechanics-liens-in-virginia

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you didn't have an agreement with the Sub, you don't owe the money.

That’s not how it works. It’s called a mechanic’s lien.

https://www.sandsanderson.com/insights/thought/nobodys-perfected-the-complex-landscape-of-mechanics-liens-in-virginia

If OP didn't order the sub to do the work, it can't result in a lien. If they could, nothing would stop con artists from randomly doing work on houses and demanding payment.

[Anonymous]

Talk with a lawyer. Unlike some states, VA has very specific rules that must be followed for a Mechanic's Lien to be valid on a construction project.

[Anonymous]

Are the initials of the Design Build MK?

[Anonymous]

I used lawyer Jim Hart for a different construction related matter and he was helpful.

[Anonymous]

Defense of Payment: Owner’s Responsibility for Payment to Subcontractors

The owner of a construction project must pay for the project only once. If an owner can prove that it has paid for the project in full, then all subcontractor liens will fail.[1] Until the owner has received a notice of mechanic’s lien (in the form and the manner prescribed by statute), the owner can continue to freely make payments to the general contractor, eroding the subs’ ability to lien. This is the true deadline for filing a subcontractor mechanic’s lien: before your customer has been paid.

There is a “payment chain”—from the owner to the general contractor to the subcontractor to the sub-subcontractor or supplier. The mechanic’s lien of any lower tier contractor is only as strong as the weakest link in this payment chain.[2] Accordingly, the further down you are on the payment chain, the greater the chance of a defense of payment. For this reason, a sub or supplier wants to file its lien and provide notice as soon as problems are apparent. A sub or supplier also wants to be aware of the status of account between the owner and general contractor at all times. If the owner is about to release all retention, then the subcontractor’s right to lien the project is about to disappear.

A defense of payment is an “affirmative defense.”[3] This means that it is up to the owner to prove that it has paid in full for the project. An owner often has some indebtedness to the general contractor but not enough to pay all subcontractor claims. In this case, the owner has a “partial defense of payment.”[4] All subcontractors who have valid mechanic’s liens will share pro rata in the fund held by the owner.[5]

https://fullertonlaw.com/mechanics-liens-in-virginia#_Toc10937979

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What did your contract with the design build firm say? Are they bonded?

Did it explicitly include the work the sub did in the price?

Not OP but had a similar situation with an addition we did in Alexandria 6 years ago.

Contract very clearly included the scope of work performed by the sub. The draw (check) was made payable to the DB firm. It was cashed .They farmed the work out and stiffed the guy.

The sub is a decent guy and I hated seeing him get worked, but his beef is with the DB firm, not us. DB firm ignored all correspondance from everybody.

We were 98% done and walked away with their punch list still wide open. The DB firm failed to send us about $31,000 worth of invoices that we would have paid for if they actually sent them (caveats notwithstanding). Basically they dragged their feet on $2,000 of punch work and never got paid for $31,000. I'm a lawyer, and they knew it, so I'm guessing they stayed in their lane and either took the hit on the chin or factored the loss in the bid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Defense of Payment: Owner’s Responsibility for Payment to Subcontractors

The owner of a construction project must pay for the project only once. If an owner can prove that it has paid for the project in full, then all subcontractor liens will fail.[1] Until the owner has received a notice of mechanic’s lien (in the form and the manner prescribed by statute), the owner can continue to freely make payments to the general contractor, eroding the subs’ ability to lien. This is the true deadline for filing a subcontractor mechanic’s lien: before your customer has been paid.

There is a “payment chain”—from the owner to the general contractor to the subcontractor to the sub-subcontractor or supplier. The mechanic’s lien of any lower tier contractor is only as strong as the weakest link in this payment chain.[2] Accordingly, the further down you are on the payment chain, the greater the chance of a defense of payment. For this reason, a sub or supplier wants to file its lien and provide notice as soon as problems are apparent. A sub or supplier also wants to be aware of the status of account between the owner and general contractor at all times. If the owner is about to release all retention, then the subcontractor’s right to lien the project is about to disappear.

A defense of payment is an “affirmative defense.”[3] This means that it is up to the owner to prove that it has paid in full for the project. An owner often has some indebtedness to the general contractor but not enough to pay all subcontractor claims. In this case, the owner has a “partial defense of payment.”[4] All subcontractors who have valid mechanic’s liens will share pro rata in the fund held by the owner.[5]

https://fullertonlaw.com/mechanics-liens-in-virginia#_Toc10937979

Virginia gives contractors 90 days from the last time they stepped foot on the property to file a calim. If they ask for payment on day 95, they are SOL. That is the law.

[Anonymous]

I would just tell the sub you’re on their side, give them all the documentation you have, and let them proceed. Show up if anything goes to court and tell the truth.

[Anonymous]

I had a similar situation. The electrician and plumber sort of threatened a lien but they knew that they were supported to perform the work as they are licensed professionals.
They didn't perform the work.
They did what is called "cover" work, meaning, they allowed their license to be used to cover part of the work, not all, and the contractor found someone else to do the remaining portion (or did it himself).
Because they could be lose their license for doing cover work, they never went thru with a lien.