No CogAT tests given to kids who are current 5th graders?

[NotThatKindofDoctor]

My kid is in 5th grade and has been at the same MCPS elementary school since kindergarten. We found out recently that no kids in her grade were ever given CogAT. Even kids who warranted a reassessment based upon their 2nd grade evaluation for GT (which was not done with CogAT but just MAP scores and survey results from teachers and parents) did not get the CogAT in 3rd grade. Their rescreening was just based on the same criteria listed above.

Is this just an issue at her school or were all current 5th graders skipped back when they were in second and third grade?

Sorry if this was already discussed - I searched the forum but didn't see this specific question/issue

[Anonymous]

Correct. Last year was the first year CogAT was back and it was for 2nd and 3rd grade only.

But GT status doesn't really matter much anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Correct. Last year was the first year CogAT was back and it was for 2nd and 3rd grade only.

But GT status doesn't really matter much anyway.

And that was the first administration of CogAT since before the pandemic.

[NotThatKindofDoctor]

Thanks! Honestly, the whole GT thing wasn't even really what I cared about. Her psychiatrist asked for the CogAT profile to help get a fuller picture about her strengths and struggles (she has ADHD and anxiety so it can be hard to sometimes sort out what the causal mechanism is for a struggle.) Sucks we don't have that, though I'm aware MCPS doesn't give the CogAT for that purpose.

Also, I cannot tell you the confusion we created when we emailed the MCPS Accelerated and Enriched Instruction Office who absolutely insisted we were wrong and everyone had gotten the CogAT. They acted like we were dumb for not being able to find it on ParentVue. Took the principal escalating to someone to get an actual answer

[Anonymous]

NotThatKindofDoctor wrote:Thanks! Honestly, the whole GT thing wasn't even really what I cared about. Her psychiatrist asked for the CogAT profile to help get a fuller picture about her strengths and struggles (she has ADHD and anxiety so it can be hard to sometimes sort out what the causal mechanism is for a struggle.) Sucks we don't have that, though I'm aware MCPS doesn't give the CogAT for that purpose.

Also, I cannot tell you the confusion we created when we emailed the MCPS Accelerated and Enriched Instruction Office who absolutely insisted we were wrong and everyone had gotten the CogAT. They acted like we were dumb for not being able to find it on ParentVue. Took the principal escalating to someone to get an actual answer

Ugh, that is not reassuring to hear from AEI-- you were clear you were talking about a 5th grader? They should know who got what when better than anyone!

And the CogAT last year was only the abbreviated screener anyway (3 tests rather than 9) so it might not have been what you needed anyway. (I read they are doing the full one this year, though.)

[Anonymous]

My kid took the cogat pre Covid and it was only the screener then too.

[NotThatKindofDoctor]

Anonymous wrote:

NotThatKindofDoctor wrote:Thanks! Honestly, the whole GT thing wasn't even really what I cared about. Her psychiatrist asked for the CogAT profile to help get a fuller picture about her strengths and struggles (she has ADHD and anxiety so it can be hard to sometimes sort out what the causal mechanism is for a struggle.) Sucks we don't have that, though I'm aware MCPS doesn't give the CogAT for that purpose.

Also, I cannot tell you the confusion we created when we emailed the MCPS Accelerated and Enriched Instruction Office who absolutely insisted we were wrong and everyone had gotten the CogAT. They acted like we were dumb for not being able to find it on ParentVue. Took the principal escalating to someone to get an actual answer

Ugh, that is not reassuring to hear from AEI-- you were clear you were talking about a 5th grader? They should know who got what when better than anyone!

And the CogAT last year was only the abbreviated screener anyway (3 tests rather than 9) so it might not have been what you needed anyway. (I read they are doing the full one this year, though.)

Yes. My husband went to one of the virtual GT Q&A sessions and asked, noting that our kid is in 5th grade. They told him he was wrong when he said she didn't have one available on ParentVue, everyone had it. So we emailed the AEI with the explicit info about her being in 5th grade and they emailed back that she did get it and after being pressed they sent a google doc template for what the CogAT letter should have looked like so we could find it (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1C5I6q8jFC1FsfCeI_BadpBGwMEVIb7Pe8XoCa1sgl9g/edit?usp=sharing). When the principal got the answer through her own channels and we asked them to confirm the AEI just didn't respond. We've sent two follow-ups and they are just ghosting us now.

I would be much less annoyed if they hadn't acted like all that! Makes me wonder about AEI in a lot of ways though

[Anonymous]

NotThatKindofDoctor wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

NotThatKindofDoctor wrote:Thanks! Honestly, the whole GT thing wasn't even really what I cared about. Her psychiatrist asked for the CogAT profile to help get a fuller picture about her strengths and struggles (she has ADHD and anxiety so it can be hard to sometimes sort out what the causal mechanism is for a struggle.) Sucks we don't have that, though I'm aware MCPS doesn't give the CogAT for that purpose.

Also, I cannot tell you the confusion we created when we emailed the MCPS Accelerated and Enriched Instruction Office who absolutely insisted we were wrong and everyone had gotten the CogAT. They acted like we were dumb for not being able to find it on ParentVue. Took the principal escalating to someone to get an actual answer

Ugh, that is not reassuring to hear from AEI-- you were clear you were talking about a 5th grader? They should know who got what when better than anyone!

And the CogAT last year was only the abbreviated screener anyway (3 tests rather than 9) so it might not have been what you needed anyway. (I read they are doing the full one this year, though.)

Yes. My husband went to one of the virtual GT Q&A sessions and asked, noting that our kid is in 5th grade. They told him he was wrong when he said she didn't have one available on ParentVue, everyone had it. So we emailed the AEI with the explicit info about her being in 5th grade and they emailed back that she did get it and after being pressed they sent a google doc template for what the CogAT letter should have looked like so we could find it (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1C5I6q8jFC1FsfCeI_BadpBGwMEVIb7Pe8XoCa1sgl9g/edit?usp=sharing). When the principal got the answer through her own channels and we asked them to confirm the AEI just didn't respond. We've sent two follow-ups and they are just ghosting us now.

I would be much less annoyed if they hadn't acted like all that! Makes me wonder about AEI in a lot of ways though

Thanks for sharing this. Not surprised in the least.

[Anonymous]

NotThatKindofDoctor wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

NotThatKindofDoctor wrote:Thanks! Honestly, the whole GT thing wasn't even really what I cared about. Her psychiatrist asked for the CogAT profile to help get a fuller picture about her strengths and struggles (she has ADHD and anxiety so it can be hard to sometimes sort out what the causal mechanism is for a struggle.) Sucks we don't have that, though I'm aware MCPS doesn't give the CogAT for that purpose.

Also, I cannot tell you the confusion we created when we emailed the MCPS Accelerated and Enriched Instruction Office who absolutely insisted we were wrong and everyone had gotten the CogAT. They acted like we were dumb for not being able to find it on ParentVue. Took the principal escalating to someone to get an actual answer

Ugh, that is not reassuring to hear from AEI-- you were clear you were talking about a 5th grader? They should know who got what when better than anyone!

And the CogAT last year was only the abbreviated screener anyway (3 tests rather than 9) so it might not have been what you needed anyway. (I read they are doing the full one this year, though.)

Yes. My husband went to one of the virtual GT Q&A sessions and asked, noting that our kid is in 5th grade. They told him he was wrong when he said she didn't have one available on ParentVue, everyone had it. So we emailed the AEI with the explicit info about her being in 5th grade and they emailed back that she did get it and after being pressed they sent a google doc template for what the CogAT letter should have looked like so we could find it (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1C5I6q8jFC1FsfCeI_BadpBGwMEVIb7Pe8XoCa1sgl9g/edit?usp=sharing). When the principal got the answer through her own channels and we asked them to confirm the AEI just didn't respond. We've sent two follow-ups and they are just ghosting us now.

I would be much less annoyed if they hadn't acted like all that! Makes me wonder about AEI in a lot of ways though

This is depressing AEI staff is just terrible (except Sarah Jackson, who is awesome), and it's painfully clear how little MCPS cares about that office and about gifted kids.

[Anonymous]

AEI annoyed me by sending me a letter that my child wasn't designated G&T.

My kid entered MCPS in 7th grade, and when you looked at the letter, he was designated as not G&T, because he had 99% MAP scores in Reading and Math, but no COGAT score ("data missing."

I asked how he was supposed to be designated G&T if they hadn't actually applied the test, and they "reviewed his case" and 6 months later, they designated him G&T (which means absolutely nothing in MCPS, as others have pointed out, but it's better than being not being designated G&T because the school couldn't be bothered to test him.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AEI annoyed me by sending me a letter that my child wasn't designated G&T.

My kid entered MCPS in 7th grade, and when you looked at the letter, he was designated as not G&T, because he had 99% MAP scores in Reading and Math, but no COGAT score ("data missing."

I asked how he was supposed to be designated G&T if they hadn't actually applied the test, and they "reviewed his case" and 6 months later, they designated him G&T (which means absolutely nothing in MCPS, as others have pointed out, but it's better than being not being designated G&T because the school couldn't be bothered to test him.)

Ok that's wild considering it was apparently their standard operating procedure to determine GT without CogAT for years. I would be annoyed, too.

It's also just a shame how poorly it's all run. I grew up in Louisiana where public schools were often not great, to put it mildly. Most private schools weren't much better. GT made a big difference in not only supporting my education but also getting me excited about school.

I naively thought that MCPS GT would be even better given the average school was already far and above most of my childhood experiences. But instead I'm left wondering why it even really exists

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AEI annoyed me by sending me a letter that my child wasn't designated G&T.

My kid entered MCPS in 7th grade, and when you looked at the letter, he was designated as not G&T, because he had 99% MAP scores in Reading and Math, but no COGAT score ("data missing."

I asked how he was supposed to be designated G&T if they hadn't actually applied the test, and they "reviewed his case" and 6 months later, they designated him G&T (which means absolutely nothing in MCPS, as others have pointed out, but it's better than being not being designated G&T because the school couldn't be bothered to test him.)

Ok that's wild considering it was apparently their standard operating procedure to determine GT without CogAT for years. I would be annoyed, too.

It's also just a shame how poorly it's all run. I grew up in Louisiana where public schools were often not great, to put it mildly. Most private schools weren't much better. GT made a big difference in not only supporting my education but also getting me excited about school.

I naively thought that MCPS GT would be even better given the average school was already far and above most of my childhood experiences. But instead I'm left wondering why it even really exists

MCPS G-T doesn’t exist. People on this board say MCPS has the designation because it is required by the state. And selection for CES MS and HS magnets is entirely dependent on MAP scores, which is a test of exposure, rather than COGAT which is a test of giftedness. COGAT isn’t used at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AEI annoyed me by sending me a letter that my child wasn't designated G&T.

My kid entered MCPS in 7th grade, and when you looked at the letter, he was designated as not G&T, because he had 99% MAP scores in Reading and Math, but no COGAT score ("data missing."

I asked how he was supposed to be designated G&T if they hadn't actually applied the test, and they "reviewed his case" and 6 months later, they designated him G&T (which means absolutely nothing in MCPS, as others have pointed out, but it's better than being not being designated G&T because the school couldn't be bothered to test him.)

Ok that's wild considering it was apparently their standard operating procedure to determine GT without CogAT for years. I would be annoyed, too.

It's also just a shame how poorly it's all run. I grew up in Louisiana where public schools were often not great, to put it mildly. Most private schools weren't much better. GT made a big difference in not only supporting my education but also getting me excited about school.

I naively thought that MCPS GT would be even better given the average school was already far and above most of my childhood experiences. But instead I'm left wondering why it even really exists

MCPS G-T doesn’t exist. People on this board say MCPS has the designation because it is required by the state. And selection for CES MS and HS magnets is entirely dependent on MAP scores, which is a test of exposure, rather than COGAT which is a test of giftedness. COGAT isn’t used at all.

It seems like MCPS has moved away from gifted programs. It’s been about a decade since they renamed the Highly Gifted Centers the Centers for Enriched Studies. They speak only of “enriched” or “accelerated” classes. They don’t claim to have any gifted programs. They say the high school magnet programs are for students who have demonstrated interest and meet certain criteria. I think that’s why they don’t care that much about gifted designations or even the CogAt and have stuck with the lottery system for younger students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AEI annoyed me by sending me a letter that my child wasn't designated G&T.

My kid entered MCPS in 7th grade, and when you looked at the letter, he was designated as not G&T, because he had 99% MAP scores in Reading and Math, but no COGAT score ("data missing."

I asked how he was supposed to be designated G&T if they hadn't actually applied the test, and they "reviewed his case" and 6 months later, they designated him G&T (which means absolutely nothing in MCPS, as others have pointed out, but it's better than being not being designated G&T because the school couldn't be bothered to test him.)

Ok that's wild considering it was apparently their standard operating procedure to determine GT without CogAT for years. I would be annoyed, too.

It's also just a shame how poorly it's all run. I grew up in Louisiana where public schools were often not great, to put it mildly. Most private schools weren't much better. GT made a big difference in not only supporting my education but also getting me excited about school.

I naively thought that MCPS GT would be even better given the average school was already far and above most of my childhood experiences. But instead I'm left wondering why it even really exists

MCPS G-T doesn’t exist. People on this board say MCPS has the designation because it is required by the state. And selection for CES MS and HS magnets is entirely dependent on MAP scores, which is a test of exposure, rather than COGAT which is a test of giftedness. COGAT isn’t used at all.

The COGAT is easily prepped for and everyone who looks at the scores knows it. It is a proxy for an intelligence test that costs a lot less. You can watch videos, buy books, and attend COGAT prep classes. It is being dropped in many places because families who want their kid in the GT programs, or their equivalents, simply prep for the COGAT.

This means that is as much a test of exposure as the MAP, the real difference is that every kid in school has a chance to be exposed to the material on the MAP while that is not the case for the COGAT.

[Anonymous]

NotThatKindofDoctor wrote:Thanks! Honestly, the whole GT thing wasn't even really what I cared about. Her psychiatrist asked for the CogAT profile to help get a fuller picture about her strengths and struggles (she has ADHD and anxiety so it can be hard to sometimes sort out what the causal mechanism is for a struggle.) Sucks we don't have that, though I'm aware MCPS doesn't give the CogAT for that purpose.

Also, I cannot tell you the confusion we created when we emailed the MCPS Accelerated and Enriched Instruction Office who absolutely insisted we were wrong and everyone had gotten the CogAT. They acted like we were dumb for not being able to find it on ParentVue. Took the principal escalating to someone to get an actual answer

AEI is completely useless. They have gotten so much weaker under the current head.