Is what every says about Cal Berkeley true?

[Anonymous]

We have heard so much about Cal being called a shark tank, hunger game, hamster wheel...and all the other stressful superlatives that DC is not even considering it as a STEM major. Has anyone had a nice, happy, collaborative undergrad experience where everyday is not a sink or swim exercise in survival?

[Anonymous]

That’s not really the point of Berkeley. It can be lax and joyful if you don’t take your studies seriously, but it’s meant to be difficult, serious, and a bit competitive.

[Anonymous]

I am Ca native and a Cal Alum. I know lots of happy Cal kids. In my experience the sink or swim aspect is not due to it being a "shark tank"- however there is limited counseling available, students have to work the systems on their own and largely online and they have to be prepared for that. Here is a link that describes the main systems students need to use https://life.berkeley.edu/apps-101-cal-student-favorites/

[Anonymous]

It's really as intense or as laid back as you want to make it, and it's so big there is something for everyone and you can figure out who you are.

[Anonymous]

Depends on the major.

As an engineering major? Yes. It was brutal. I have never heard of anyone's tests getting curved down before because the competition was so fierce. My freshman calculus class, 10% of the class got 100 on the first exam, so a 99% was a B due to the curve. My C+ became an F. It was insanely hard.

This was 20 years ago, but math classes were so overenrolled, if you didn't get to class 20 minutes early, there wasn't a seat in the 500 person lecture hall and you had to watch the video of the lecture from a satellite location. It was not fun.

My elective classes weren't bad though. Anything humanities was fun.

[Anonymous]

OP do you know of top STEM schools that are happy collaborative places with hand holding? Cal is great but you have to be self motivated in your studies. DH thought it was a fun place too. Made enduring friendships

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Depends on the major.

As an engineering major? Yes. It was brutal. I have never heard of anyone's tests getting curved down before because the competition was so fierce. My freshman calculus class, 10% of the class got 100 on the first exam, so a 99% was a B due to the curve. My C+ became an F. It was insanely hard.

This was 20 years ago, but math classes were so overenrolled, if you didn't get to class 20 minutes early, there wasn't a seat in the 500 person lecture hall and you had to watch the video of the lecture from a satellite location. It was not fun.

My elective classes weren't bad though. Anything humanities was fun.

There were also a LOT of classes that I felt were a middle ground-- somewhat challenging but also very collaborative. Business, economics, public policy classes all felt that way. Never took any life sciences classes so I can't say what those were like.

[Anonymous]

The STEM side of Berkeley is difficult, nothing really else to say. I know a person who did physics and LOVED Berkeley, but he was also the top 0.0001%, spent most of his undergrad doing graduate courses, got a PhD at MIT and is now an endowed professor at a top research institution. The average kid from my high school who went to Berkeley worked their ass off, but did enjoy it

[Anonymous]

Outside of STEM, it’s way more collaborative.

[Anonymous]

As others have said, not every department is grindy/shark-tank-y, but some are. But regardless of the department, the school is, overall, a machine, and if your student wants to connect with professors in a deep, personal way, other schools will be much better for that. The university is so focused on getting students across the line, there's little cushion for exploration and delighting in learning.

We're from California, and when my oldest was applying (for a not-STEM major), we strongly encouraged her to stay in-state. She got in to Berkeley, and we were excited for her. But after seeing what it was like, we encouraged our twins (current college freshmen) to go elsewhere. They're both at W&M, and the difference in access to professors, access to research opportunities, quality of dorms, and general "warmth" on campus has been night and day. If your student wants the experience of a mid-sized undergraduate university, there's really no way that Cal is going to be able to deliver.

[Anonymous]

I'm also from California and went to UCLA. But I have a lot of friends who went to Cal. Like everything else, the echo chamber of the internet greatly exaggerates things that are often based on partial truths. Most of my friends, many of whom were CS majors, loved their time at Cal. It's certainly not a hold-your-hand place (neither was UCLA), but the vast majority of students find their way and are able the recognize that the university has vast resources available for those who pursue them. As much as this forum criticizes this approach, learning to hustle is a life skill and, so, this is not entirely a disadvantage.

Incidentally DD has a couple friends there--one a biology major and the other econ--and they seem to be thriving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As others have said, not every department is grindy/shark-tank-y, but some are. But regardless of the department, the school is, overall, a machine, and if your student wants to connect with professors in a deep, personal way, other schools will be much better for that. The university is so focused on getting students across the line, there's little cushion for exploration and delighting in learning.

We're from California, and when my oldest was applying (for a not-STEM major), we strongly encouraged her to stay in-state. She got in to Berkeley, and we were excited for her. But after seeing what it was like, we encouraged our twins (current college freshmen) to go elsewhere. They're both at W&M, and the difference in access to professors, access to research opportunities, quality of dorms, and general "warmth" on campus has been night and day. If your student wants the experience of a mid-sized undergraduate university, there's really no way that Cal is going to be able to deliver.

I don’t believe they have better access or research opportunities. Berkeley makes it really easy if you’re actually a good student to have access to the best research around. The issue is you do have to actually be academically excellent.

[Anonymous]

I live in SF and am both friends with people who went there AND am friends with people whose kids are going there now.

No, that's not true. What is true is that housing a real problem there. It's not cut-throat at all - Californians know how to do their best without being back-stabby. They know how to encourage and inspire people to work harder by virtue of them working hard.

Everyone I know of who has gone or is going likes it as long as their housing is secure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That’s not really the point of Berkeley. It can be lax and joyful if you don’t take your studies seriously, but it’s meant to be difficult, serious, and a bit competitive.

A UC education is supposed to be a more rigorous education for top CA students. It is still factory education with many limitations designed to train large numbers of students to acceptable levels of competency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends on the major.

As an engineering major? Yes. It was brutal. I have never heard of anyone's tests getting curved down before because the competition was so fierce. My freshman calculus class, 10% of the class got 100 on the first exam, so a 99% was a B due to the curve. My C+ became an F. It was insanely hard.

This was 20 years ago, but math classes were so overenrolled, if you didn't get to class 20 minutes early, there wasn't a seat in the 500 person lecture hall and you had to watch the video of the lecture from a satellite location. It was not fun.

My elective classes weren't bad though. Anything humanities was fun.

There were also a LOT of classes that I felt were a middle ground-- somewhat challenging but also very collaborative. Business, economics, public policy classes all felt that way. Never took any life sciences classes so I can't say what those were like.

Outside of Engineering/CS UCB is like any other large public which means larger classes and a wide variety of students with varying degrees of effort. The top large publics are great grad schools but nothing out of the ordinary for undergraduate education.

For engineering and CS if UCB wasn't in the heart of teh tech world it would be no different than Purdue, UIUC, and Michigan.