ABET Engineering Schools

[Anonymous]

Didn't get into VT but got into VCU. Does anyone know the difference in programs. VCU is ranked much lower. Should we pay more for higher ranked schools OOS? ABET certified is ABET certified no matter where you go, right?

[Anonymous]

The content of the education is the same, but there may be differences in other things: accessibility of professors/quality of teaching (not based on rank, but just on differences among schools), size of class, employer recruitment.

[Anonymous]

I don't think schools are ABET certified per se, but rather the specific program is ABET certified. So a school could be ABET for MechE, but maybe not CompE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Didn't get into VT but got into VCU. Does anyone know the difference in programs. VCU is ranked much lower. Should we pay more for higher ranked schools OOS? ABET certified is ABET certified no matter where you go, right?

Hiring manager here. VCU is totally fine for engineering -- provided they offer the specific degree (example: BS EE) that DC wants. They have good job placement and also good grad school placement.

DC should pick upper-level in-major electives carefully at any engineering program. Rigor matters there also.

Do not get a degree in "General Engineering", which is all that JMU offers, from any college. Those do not usually end up working in engineering.

Higher rankings in engineering programs are much less meaningful than they might be in some academic fields -- because ABET sets the minimum rigor at a pretty high level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think schools are ABET certified per se, but rather the specific program is ABET certified. So a school could be ABET for MechE, but maybe not CompE.

As a hiring manager, if an engineering program is ABET accredited in any part of the program, that is good enough. That means the core classes of math, physics, or whatever that apply to all degrees are rigorous enough.

The exception is that we have never hired anyone with a degree in "General Engineering". We do hire people with a range of specific degrees (examples: AeroE, CompE, EE).

[Anonymous]

So if ABET sets the rigor of the program, and VCU accepts 95% of its engineering applicants and the same percentage graduates, is there really a sliding scale of rigor between colleges?

If you took VCU's accepted engineering students and put them through Carnegie Mellon's program, would all 95% graduate?

[Anonymous]

ABET - don't go by that. No VCU prof ever said - you want to learn that? you need to go to a better school.

Look at what you want to get out of the program. Hands on projects vs test taking? Go to Olin. Want Co-Ops? then GMU or UMD. Want a path way to Grad school? then a school that pumps PHD students.

If you don't know then VCU is fine. Math is Math everywhere in the world.

Ignore those guys that look at ranks over the person. I was took over for a guy that graduated from a a top 5 Engineering school. He not only forgot all of his EE concepts - his code barely works. He got in for stuff that he did as a teen and coasted from that point on. think Person over School every time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So if ABET sets the rigor of the program, and VCU accepts 95% of its engineering applicants and the same percentage graduates, is there really a sliding scale of rigor between colleges?

If you took VCU's accepted engineering students and put them through Carnegie Mellon's program, would all 95% graduate?

of course not. Carnegie Mellon and other top E schools (MIT, ivies with real engineering, Northwestern, Georgia Tech, Berkeley) go far above and beyond the ABET standards. ABET is a minimum. The top schools have a much higher minimum bar of rigor and courseload hours. One can be competitive from VCU but one would have to take the most difficult upper levels--grad levels--and get all As--to end with a transcript that is closer to a student who did the minimum to graduate engineering at a top school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So if ABET sets the rigor of the program, and VCU accepts 95% of its engineering applicants and the same percentage graduates, is there really a sliding scale of rigor between colleges?

If you took VCU's accepted engineering students and put them through Carnegie Mellon's program, would all 95% graduate?

Why are you assuming that VCU engineering has a 95% completion rate? That seems counterintuitive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if ABET sets the rigor of the program, and VCU accepts 95% of its engineering applicants and the same percentage graduates, is there really a sliding scale of rigor between colleges?

If you took VCU's accepted engineering students and put them through Carnegie Mellon's program, would all 95% graduate?

of course not. Carnegie Mellon and other top E schools (MIT, ivies with real engineering, Northwestern, Georgia Tech, Berkeley) go far above and beyond the ABET standards. ABET is a minimum. The top schools have a much higher minimum bar of rigor and courseload hours. One can be competitive from VCU but one would have to take the most difficult upper levels--grad levels--and get all As--to end with a transcript that is closer to a student who did the minimum to graduate engineering at a top school.

+1. Being ABET-accredited is the floor. It says very little on the specific content being taught. Using mechanical engineering as an example, it requires that ABET-accredited programs teach thermodynamics and fluid mechanics, but doesn't dictate which topics should be covered, how deep should instructors go, how much homework should be assigned, and how difficult should exam questions be. So you have a stronger ME department offering Thermodynamics I and II that are worth 6 credit hours with a bunch of homework and projects, and a weaker department offering Thermo that is worth 3 credit hours where many details are omitted/glanced over, despite both departments being ABET-accredited.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if ABET sets the rigor of the program, and VCU accepts 95% of its engineering applicants and the same percentage graduates, is there really a sliding scale of rigor between colleges?

If you took VCU's accepted engineering students and put them through Carnegie Mellon's program, would all 95% graduate?

Why are you assuming that VCU engineering has a 95% completion rate? That seems counterintuitive.

Googled it. 95% of applicants are accepted and about 95% get through and graduate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if ABET sets the rigor of the program, and VCU accepts 95% of its engineering applicants and the same percentage graduates, is there really a sliding scale of rigor between colleges?

If you took VCU's accepted engineering students and put them through Carnegie Mellon's program, would all 95% graduate?

Why are you assuming that VCU engineering has a 95% completion rate? That seems counterintuitive.

Googled it. 95% of applicants are accepted and about 95% get through and graduate.

I believe that stat is referring to the 95% that are allowed to declare the major(3.0+ with a certain number of math general sci prereqs)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if ABET sets the rigor of the program, and VCU accepts 95% of its engineering applicants and the same percentage graduates, is there really a sliding scale of rigor between colleges?

If you took VCU's accepted engineering students and put them through Carnegie Mellon's program, would all 95% graduate?

of course not. Carnegie Mellon and other top E schools (MIT, ivies with real engineering, Northwestern, Georgia Tech, Berkeley) go far above and beyond the ABET standards. ABET is a minimum. The top schools have a much higher minimum bar of rigor and courseload hours. One can be competitive from VCU but one would have to take the most difficult upper levels--grad levels--and get all As--to end with a transcript that is closer to a student who did the minimum to graduate engineering at a top school.

+1. Being ABET-accredited is the floor. It says very little on the specific content being taught. Using mechanical engineering as an example, it requires that ABET-accredited programs teach thermodynamics and fluid mechanics, but doesn't dictate which topics should be covered, how deep should instructors go, how much homework should be assigned, and how difficult should exam questions be. So you have a stronger ME department offering Thermodynamics I and II that are worth 6 credit hours with a bunch of homework and projects, and a weaker department offering Thermo that is worth 3 credit hours where many details are omitted/glanced over, despite both departments being ABET-accredited.

How does a non-engineering parent determine a quality engineering program if the student cannot get into the top ranked programs? Do they exist?
Look at ranking websites? Which ones?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if ABET sets the rigor of the program, and VCU accepts 95% of its engineering applicants and the same percentage graduates, is there really a sliding scale of rigor between colleges?

If you took VCU's accepted engineering students and put them through Carnegie Mellon's program, would all 95% graduate?

of course not. Carnegie Mellon and other top E schools (MIT, ivies with real engineering, Northwestern, Georgia Tech, Berkeley) go far above and beyond the ABET standards. ABET is a minimum. The top schools have a much higher minimum bar of rigor and courseload hours. One can be competitive from VCU but one would have to take the most difficult upper levels--grad levels--and get all As--to end with a transcript that is closer to a student who did the minimum to graduate engineering at a top school.

+1. Being ABET-accredited is the floor. It says very little on the specific content being taught. Using mechanical engineering as an example, it requires that ABET-accredited programs teach thermodynamics and fluid mechanics, but doesn't dictate which topics should be covered, how deep should instructors go, how much homework should be assigned, and how difficult should exam questions be. So you have a stronger ME department offering Thermodynamics I and II that are worth 6 credit hours with a bunch of homework and projects, and a weaker department offering Thermo that is worth 3 credit hours where many details are omitted/glanced over, despite both departments being ABET-accredited.

Yes yes and yes. Please parents investigate the rigor of the programs before you let your kid matriculate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if ABET sets the rigor of the program, and VCU accepts 95% of its engineering applicants and the same percentage graduates, is there really a sliding scale of rigor between colleges?

If you took VCU's accepted engineering students and put them through Carnegie Mellon's program, would all 95% graduate?

of course not. Carnegie Mellon and other top E schools (MIT, ivies with real engineering, Northwestern, Georgia Tech, Berkeley) go far above and beyond the ABET standards. ABET is a minimum. The top schools have a much higher minimum bar of rigor and courseload hours. One can be competitive from VCU but one would have to take the most difficult upper levels--grad levels--and get all As--to end with a transcript that is closer to a student who did the minimum to graduate engineering at a top school.

+1. Being ABET-accredited is the floor. It says very little on the specific content being taught. Using mechanical engineering as an example, it requires that ABET-accredited programs teach thermodynamics and fluid mechanics, but doesn't dictate which topics should be covered, how deep should instructors go, how much homework should be assigned, and how difficult should exam questions be. So you have a stronger ME department offering Thermodynamics I and II that are worth 6 credit hours with a bunch of homework and projects, and a weaker department offering Thermo that is worth 3 credit hours where many details are omitted/glanced over, despite both departments being ABET-accredited.

How does a non-engineering parent determine a quality engineering program if the student cannot get into the top ranked programs? Do they exist?
Look at ranking websites? Which ones?

The rankings do not include factors on rigor of the program, unfortunately. Compare the lesser ranked program to the top ones and get as close as you can as far as coursework required. Look at phD matriculation: if the undergrad E program is sending some of their grads to top-20 phD Engineering schools, then that program is providing rigor and research necessary to give a grad with just a bachelors a quality degree that will lead to a stem job in the AI age when entry level jobs are decreasing in number.