Communication pattern with my mom

[Anonymous]

When I talk to my mom, I find myself challenging her a lot on stuff she says. I think she takes it personally. Should I bite my tongue? She's 80, and stuck in her ways, so it's not like I'm going to change her views, but I feel compelled to challenge her when she says certain things that just aren't true.

Generally, she likes to complain to me about a lot of things, and I let her. But when it comes to saying not nice stuff about our family members, I disagree with her. And I feel like I have to set the record straight - for their benefit and for the benefit of her general feelings toward them.

As one example, she went on forever about how badly she feels for my brother, because of his wife. My SIL is lovely. The main issue my mom has with her is that she is overweight, and so she thinks she is lazy, does nothing around the house, and makes my brother do everything, and that they can't live a normal life because of her weight and inability to walk. I basically told her she's perfectly capable of walking, which led to a 10 minute story about how 5 years ago, they were somewhere together and she witnessed her having trouble walking. My mom tends to hold on to these small moments in time that has happened ages ago, but she recalls them like they just happened last week. I also told her my SIL does a lot around the house, they both contribute, and they both work full time. It bugs me because my SIL is very generous and sweet and thoughtful to my mom and has done so much for her, and yet after all these years of being happily married to my brother, my mom still has not warmed to her. And she actually believes my SIL makes my brother's life harder and makes him work too hard. What's ironic is that my mom is the one always bugging my brother to do all kinds of things for her.

My mom was not happy I was not agreeing with what she was saying, and told me that I should stop telling her what she says is not true and try to be more understanding of her perspective as a mom.

Just one example, but a recurring pattern that happens in our conversations.

Should I hold my tongue, or continue correcting her?

[Anonymous]

You are right that you cannot change her perspective. Perspective is usually like someone's politics - they believe what they are gonna believe.

It sounds like your mother has a critical nature and enjoys pointing out others' faults. Except her own, of course, because SHE needs to be understood. Not anyone else.

I'd say next time she starts complaining about someone completely change the subject in an obvious way but do not try and challenge her.

Mom: SiL is so lazy, I wish your brother had married someone else.

You: Did I tell you I got a new pair of shoes this week? They are so comfortable and a good price.

Mom: Did you hear me? I said I feel sorry for your brother...

You: I am thinking about what to make for dinner. Got any suggestions?

Etc. Etc. Etc.

[Anonymous]

Oh no. I would keep correcting her. Defending the good and worthy is a hill to die on. If she doesn't like it, she can switch the subject or not call you (which would be a relief!).

[Anonymous]

I would continue standing up for people against her unfair and inappropriate comments. Even if she still thinks it, I don't want to hear someone sh*t on a perfectly nice human for no reason other than their own incorrect biases.

If she told me to shut up and respect her perspective as a mom, I'd tell her her observations are incorrect at best and saying mean things about family members is inappropriate.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn’t keep correcting her. She is set in her ways and thinking and nothing you say or do (no matter how correct it is) is going to change her mind.
Nod and smile (or the phone version of that) and then change the subject.
This is what I do for my mom and she’s only 68 but loves to sit on her high horse and judge everyone around her.

[Anonymous]

OP here. I kind of wish there was some magic phrase I could say to permanently make her stop saying bad stuff about family members behind their back. I feel like she saves her most ugly thoughts for just me.

Something like, "you know, when you say bad things about other people, it doesn't make them look bad, it just makes you look like the bad person"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I kind of wish there was some magic phrase I could say to permanently make her stop saying bad stuff about family members behind their back. I feel like she saves her most ugly thoughts for just me.

Something like, "you know, when you say bad things about other people, it doesn't make them look bad, it just makes you look like the bad person"

If you do this she will probably cry and run off to your brother to tell him you said she was evil.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would continue standing up for people against her unfair and inappropriate comments. Even if she still thinks it, I don't want to hear someone sh*t on a perfectly nice human for no reason other than their own incorrect biases.

If she told me to shut up and respect her perspective as a mom, I'd tell her her observations are incorrect at best and saying mean things about family members is inappropriate.

Based on history, I can probably predict that if I challenge her, it will extend into a 15 minute liturgy of her trying to convince me otherwise. I guess if my goal is to not hear her negative commentary, PP's suggestion to change the topic would likely be more effective.

But I think I always hold on to the goal that I will be able to change her perspective. But she never does - at least not from me challenging her. I also feel obligated to stand up for this person that I also have a good relationship with. But that often brings out some competitive type of vibe from my mom or makes her spew more hate about the person. She wants me to side with her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would continue standing up for people against her unfair and inappropriate comments. Even if she still thinks it, I don't want to hear someone sh*t on a perfectly nice human for no reason other than their own incorrect biases.

If she told me to shut up and respect her perspective as a mom, I'd tell her her observations are incorrect at best and saying mean things about family members is inappropriate.

Based on history, I can probably predict that if I challenge her, it will extend into a 15 minute liturgy of her trying to convince me otherwise. I guess if my goal is to not hear her negative commentary, PP's suggestion to change the topic would likely be more effective.

But I think I always hold on to the goal that I will be able to change her perspective. But she never does - at least not from me challenging her. I also feel obligated to stand up for this person that I also have a good relationship with. But that often brings out some competitive type of vibe from my mom or makes her spew more hate about the person. She wants me to side with her.

In that case it's easy. Tell her you can't talk to someone who speaks so ill of others, and say goodbye. If she really, really wants to talk to you, she'll manage to change a little bit. And if she cannot, you won't get to hear any of it anyway.

Also, it's not true that old people can't stop speaking ill of others. Your mother doesn't have Alzheimer's. She's just never gotten strong enough pressure to make her stop, which is different.

So many relationship issues are a question of who has the most willpower and is prepared to follow-through on consequences. People don't like to admit it, but that's how it works. I have more willpower than my mother, and over time, she's had to get used to leaving her back-stabbing, ultra-negative, nasty, occasionally racist and definitely classist remarks out of our conversations, because I will ALWAYS call her out on them. I will and have hung up on her. I am the stronger person in that relationship.

I don't have the same relationship with others: my father and husband don't let themselves get brow-beaten, but since they're usually positive and decent people, there's no reason for me to call them out in the first place. My maternal aunts and uncle are just like my mother (that family is a viper's nest), but since I'm not their "safety person", they usually don't lose their filter when they talk to me. Their own kids, on the other hand, behave in the same way towards them that I behave towards my mother

We all create our own dynamics over time with each person in our circle. It's hard to change the dynamic, but it can be done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would continue standing up for people against her unfair and inappropriate comments. Even if she still thinks it, I don't want to hear someone sh*t on a perfectly nice human for no reason other than their own incorrect biases.

If she told me to shut up and respect her perspective as a mom, I'd tell her her observations are incorrect at best and saying mean things about family members is inappropriate.

Based on history, I can probably predict that if I challenge her, it will extend into a 15 minute liturgy of her trying to convince me otherwise. I guess if my goal is to not hear her negative commentary, PP's suggestion to change the topic would likely be more effective.

But I think I always hold on to the goal that I will be able to change her perspective. But she never does - at least not from me challenging her. I also feel obligated to stand up for this person that I also have a good relationship with. But that often brings out some competitive type of vibe from my mom or makes her spew more hate about the person. She wants me to side with her.

In that case it's easy. Tell her you can't talk to someone who speaks so ill of others, and say goodbye. If she really, really wants to talk to you, she'll manage to change a little bit. And if she cannot, you won't get to hear any of it anyway.

Also, it's not true that old people can't stop speaking ill of others. Your mother doesn't have Alzheimer's. She's just never gotten strong enough pressure to make her stop, which is different.

So many relationship issues are a question of who has the most willpower and is prepared to follow-through on consequences. People don't like to admit it, but that's how it works. I have more willpower than my mother, and over time, she's had to get used to leaving her back-stabbing, ultra-negative, nasty, occasionally racist and definitely classist remarks out of our conversations, because I will ALWAYS call her out on them. I will and have hung up on her. I am the stronger person in that relationship.

I don't have the same relationship with others: my father and husband don't let themselves get brow-beaten, but since they're usually positive and decent people, there's no reason for me to call them out in the first place. My maternal aunts and uncle are just like my mother (that family is a viper's nest), but since I'm not their "safety person", they usually don't lose their filter when they talk to me. Their own kids, on the other hand, behave in the same way towards them that I behave towards my mother

We all create our own dynamics over time with each person in our circle. It's hard to change the dynamic, but it can be done.

I want this to be true. I have to work on this. I've only been this direct with my mom on a few things. My mom is very sensitive. It doesn't take much for her to get depressed. She tries to make me her "safe space" where she can say all of her unsaid ugly thoughts and keeps telling me how much better she feels afterwards for finally unloading it off her chest. But I don't think it actually helps her, it just keeps her stuck in a negative loop.

[Anonymous]

Don't enable that crap, OP. She needs to see a therapist. You are not her therapist.

[Anonymous]

Since it won't get back to your SIL, you don't need to defend her honor. Just say "Mom, we need to agree to disagree. Let's move on. Remember Susan Powter? Of "Stop the insanity! Well, guess what. ..."

[Anonymous]

What if you overagreed with her? Like "you're right mom, SIL is the worst person on earth. She's a lazy person, brother deserves way better. He should divorce her so she can die alone." Sometimes I find if I mirror back an exaggerated version of someone's critical language, it's only then they truly hear how awful they sound and come to the person's defense. Obviously then you can gently explain that she's been too harsh on her, as you wouldn't want your mom to relay back to brother and SIL that you share that opinion.

[Anonymous]

Don’t allow her to rant. I would say I don’t want to listen to you criticize SIL (or whomever). Let’s talk about something else or we can talk again next week. The ball is then in her court. If she continues, “Gotta go.” Repeat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would continue standing up for people against her unfair and inappropriate comments. Even if she still thinks it, I don't want to hear someone sh*t on a perfectly nice human for no reason other than their own incorrect biases.

If she told me to shut up and respect her perspective as a mom, I'd tell her her observations are incorrect at best and saying mean things about family members is inappropriate.

Based on history, I can probably predict that if I challenge her, it will extend into a 15 minute liturgy of her trying to convince me otherwise. I guess if my goal is to not hear her negative commentary, PP's suggestion to change the topic would likely be more effective.

But I think I always hold on to the goal that I will be able to change her perspective. But she never does - at least not from me challenging her. I also feel obligated to stand up for this person that I also have a good relationship with. But that often brings out some competitive type of vibe from my mom or makes her spew more hate about the person. She wants me to side with her.

In that case it's easy. Tell her you can't talk to someone who speaks so ill of others, and say goodbye. If she really, really wants to talk to you, she'll manage to change a little bit. And if she cannot, you won't get to hear any of it anyway.

Also, it's not true that old people can't stop speaking ill of others. Your mother doesn't have Alzheimer's. She's just never gotten strong enough pressure to make her stop, which is different.

So many relationship issues are a question of who has the most willpower and is prepared to follow-through on consequences. People don't like to admit it, but that's how it works. I have more willpower than my mother, and over time, she's had to get used to leaving her back-stabbing, ultra-negative, nasty, occasionally racist and definitely classist remarks out of our conversations, because I will ALWAYS call her out on them. I will and have hung up on her. I am the stronger person in that relationship.

I don't have the same relationship with others: my father and husband don't let themselves get brow-beaten, but since they're usually positive and decent people, there's no reason for me to call them out in the first place. My maternal aunts and uncle are just like my mother (that family is a viper's nest), but since I'm not their "safety person", they usually don't lose their filter when they talk to me. Their own kids, on the other hand, behave in the same way towards them that I behave towards my mother

We all create our own dynamics over time with each person in our circle. It's hard to change the dynamic, but it can be done.

I want this to be true. I have to work on this. I've only been this direct with my mom on a few things. My mom is very sensitive. It doesn't take much for her to get depressed. She tries to make me her "safe space" where she can say all of her unsaid ugly thoughts and keeps telling me how much better she feels afterwards for finally unloading it off her chest. But I don't think it actually helps her, it just keeps her stuck in a negative loop.

OP, I can so relate to this. My mom has always been critical of others. It tends to be more family now but I remember defending HS classmates I didn't even like myself because she was so weirdly cirtical of them- I think she was envious of them or their moms. It was so weird. And I agree that I think she sees me as her therapist or something, "I just need to vent!" and tries to make me feel bad for not being part of it. I actually am starting therapy myself because I sometimes feel like I need to unload (who doesn't?) but don't want to fall into the same pattern with my own kids.