Free-range kids picked up AGAIN by police

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if the parents who are hell bent on sending their kids to the park alone before they are old enough are the same parents who drank wine throughout their pregnancies, dragged their babies to bars, and shun after school activities (which involve giving up your me time to schlep kids to/from practice and games)?

And I wonder why these kids aren't playing with kids in their neighborhood? And if there aren't any kids on their street, then why not pick up the phone and invite a kid over to play?

As the mother of four, I find it supremely odd that a ten year old boy would have any interest in playing with his six year old sister...most ten year olds have zero interest in playing with much younger kids. My guess is that the parents use him as a babysitter, and that's a crummy thing to do IMHO.

I wonder if the parents hell bent on making it a law to not allow kids to go to parks are the same one who had a birthing plan, have huge containers of hand sanitizer in their house, who pack 2 diapers bags as a just in case we get stranded, who follow their kids around at the park and tell them where to go, what to play, who to play with, and intervene any disputes. Who sit next to their kids when they do their homework, who pick out their clothes everyday, who put them in an organized activity every day of the week and gladly spend 4 hours commuting each child to and from their future Div 1 sports. Who plans playdates and structures them with planned crafts and games. Who never drop off at a birthday party but always stay, who gives their kid a cell phone at the age of 8 to make sure they can check in all the time. Who says there is no time for their kids to chores, that it isn't fair for them to have responsibilities because they work so hard.

And you wonder why kids aren't playing in their neighborhood? It is because they are in 3-5 activities and then on computer screens for their downtime.

And maybe a 10yr old doesn't want to play with his sister all the time (and why you just assume he does?) but it is good parenting to teach your kids to be good siblings to each other, to have responsibilities, and to not be a selfish whiny kid that always gets their way because Mommy will do it all.

This.is.awesome! 100% true. But every coddling mom will say they never do these things. Watch!

Why do you people swing to the extreme with every rebuttal???

I'm the mom of four. I am a slacker mom. No birth plan. Heck, I didn't even breast feed. My kids walk to the bus stop, ride bikes to 7-11, etc. But if CPS put me through the ringer for anything, I'm smart enough to not repeat the behavior in order to prevent my kids from being picked up by the police and having CPS on my ass again...because I'm not a moron, and I recognize that I'm not above the law.

I disagree. You're not a slacker mom based on what you've said here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You just don't get it. And yes, we do need some regulations as to what can and cannot with their kids -- we do. People do not mind that their are car seat laws or leaving kids alone in a car, etc. . I let my kids do stuff that technically may be against the regs and if I got called out on it -- I'd get over it and comply. Why? Because I know that I am responsible, but their are a lot of other people that are not and it is not going to kill me or my kids to not walk to Starbucks by themselves. Folks get pissed because things are no longer old-school and neighbors are not friendly and looking out, but as soon as someone does -- there is hell to pay. These parents are loud mouth grand standers who are more interested in a cause then the possibility of losing their kids. Horrible execution on their part, so much else they could have done to change the regs if they disagree. Just another example of the privileged, all about me, entitlement epidemic in this area.

Bravo, very well stated!!! I totally agree that these parents have a huge sense of entitlement because they feel they are above the law. Sorry folks, no one is above the law. As others have said, work to change laws you don't agree with. These parents just continue to flaunt their disagreement with the law, thereby putting their own kids at risk in the meantime.

Sometimes going against a law you feel is unjust requires people willing to do the right thing. Personally, that is not the way I am wired to operate. But look at recent history -- whether you agree with the causes or not: gay marriage and pot laws (though still against federal law). In the 1930s people harboring Jews were breaking the law. Do you think that lawmakers would seriously take up the cause of children walking to the neighborhood playground unless there was public fervor about a case or several across the country??

Monkey Bars does not equal the Holocaust
Monkey Bars does not equal civil rights
Monkey Bars does not equal gay marriage
Monkey Bars does not equal Jim Crow

Know what all those things have in common?
ALL OF THEM WERE THINGS PEOPLE PUT THEMSELVES IN HARM'S WAY TO CHANGE, NOT THEIR DAMN KIDS!
If I do not have enough common sense and discretion to know that walking to the park is something I can lobby to change WITHOUT GETTING MY KIDS PICKED UP BY CPS -- then I choose THAT!
These parents are more interested in doing the hell what they want then making real change. They are pissed because they did not get their way.
Honest to GOD, if the cops told me 'hey your kids cannot go to 7-11 unsupervised' -- I would think "OK", now I know and go on about my life. Not even a blip on my freaking radar. My life will go on, my kids' lives will go on and my kids will still have plenty to do and NUMEROUS ways to practice and develop independence even if they cannot buy a damn slurpie by themselves.
I have no problem with "free-range", I have a problem with STUPID.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You just don't get it. And yes, we do need some regulations as to what can and cannot with their kids -- we do. People do not mind that their are car seat laws or leaving kids alone in a car, etc. . I let my kids do stuff that technically may be against the regs and if I got called out on it -- I'd get over it and comply. Why? Because I know that I am responsible, but their are a lot of other people that are not and it is not going to kill me or my kids to not walk to Starbucks by themselves. Folks get pissed because things are no longer old-school and neighbors are not friendly and looking out, but as soon as someone does -- there is hell to pay. These parents are loud mouth grand standers who are more interested in a cause then the possibility of losing their kids. Horrible execution on their part, so much else they could have done to change the regs if they disagree. Just another example of the privileged, all about me, entitlement epidemic in this area.

Bravo, very well stated!!! I totally agree that these parents have a huge sense of entitlement because they feel they are above the law. Sorry folks, no one is above the law. As others have said, work to change laws you don't agree with. These parents just continue to flaunt their disagreement with the law, thereby putting their own kids at risk in the meantime.

Sometimes going against a law you feel is unjust requires people willing to do the right thing. Personally, that is not the way I am wired to operate. But look at recent history -- whether you agree with the causes or not: gay marriage and pot laws (though still against federal law). In the 1930s people harboring Jews were breaking the law. Do you think that lawmakers would seriously take up the cause of children walking to the neighborhood playground unless there was public fervor about a case or several across the country??

Monkey Bars does not equal the Holocaust
Monkey Bars does not equal civil rights
Monkey Bars does not equal gay marriage
Monkey Bars does not equal Jim Crow

Know what all those things have in common?
ALL OF THEM WERE THINGS PEOPLE PUT THEMSELVES IN HARM'S WAY TO CHANGE, NOT THEIR DAMN KIDS!
If I do not have enough common sense and discretion to know that walking to the park is something I can lobby to change WITHOUT GETTING MY KIDS PICKED UP BY CPS -- then I choose THAT!
These parents are more interested in doing the hell what they want then making real change. They are pissed because they did not get their way.
Honest to GOD, if the cops told me 'hey your kids cannot go to 7-11 unsupervised' -- I would think "OK", now I know and go on about my life. Not even a blip on my freaking radar. My life will go on, my kids' lives will go on and my kids will still have plenty to do and NUMEROUS ways to practice and develop independence even if they cannot buy a damn slurpie by themselves.
I have no problem with "free-range", I have a problem with STUPID.

You know what really helps, if you're trying to make a real change? Publicity.

Also, you're wrong about people not putting their kids in harm's way to fight the Holocaust, civil rights, gay marriage, or Jim Crow. (By the way, what is gay marriage, specifically, doing on that list? As opposed to gay rights?) Let's start with the Birmingham Children's Crusade and the Little Rock Nine, for civil rights. And you left apartheid off the list, but I will add it, and refer you to the Soweto uprising.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Why do you people swing to the extreme with every rebuttal???

I'm the mom of four. I am a slacker mom. No birth plan. Heck, I didn't even breast feed. My kids walk to the bus stop, ride bikes to 7-11, etc. But if CPS put me through the ringer for anything, I'm smart enough to not repeat the behavior in order to prevent my kids from being picked up by the police and having CPS on my ass again...because I'm not a moron, and I recognize that I'm not above the law.

But the parents aren't saying that they're above the law. They're saying that there is no law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's some evidence of neglect, not conclusive evidence. That's why there's an investigation. They have to look at the totality of the circumstances and thinking about child issues. Which, if you think about it, makes a lot of sense. Let's say they found the kids alone and the kids are too young to be out alone. So they go check out the house. The parents say oh they knew exactly where they were, this is the first time we've done that, sure we'll make sure that little Bobby isnt out supervising his little sister until he turns 11 next week. That's one thing. It's quite another if when they go to the house they find the dad high and he had no idea where the kids were. And the kids hadn't been to school for 10 days in the last month. Then the investigation continues. It's always a totality of the circumstances. In this particular case, I do not know what those circumstances are, and neither do you.

So it's not neglect as long as the parents promise to never do it again?

Well, there's the problem. Why should they promise to never do it again, if it's

1. not illegal, and
2. not neglectful?

Not what I said. Totality of the circumstances. Those were two hypothetical examples. I really think you're not capable of understanding legal issues.

[Anonymous]

What are children's civil rights?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why do you people swing to the extreme with every rebuttal???

I'm the mom of four. I am a slacker mom. No birth plan. Heck, I didn't even breast feed. My kids walk to the bus stop, ride bikes to 7-11, etc. But if CPS put me through the ringer for anything, I'm smart enough to not repeat the behavior in order to prevent my kids from being picked up by the police and having CPS on my ass again...because I'm not a moron, and I recognize that I'm not above the law.

But the parents aren't saying that they're above the law. They're saying that there is no law.

Which is clearly just factually incorrect. Why don't I just speed and say there is no speed limit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why do you people swing to the extreme with every rebuttal???

I'm the mom of four. I am a slacker mom. No birth plan. Heck, I didn't even breast feed. My kids walk to the bus stop, ride bikes to 7-11, etc. But if CPS put me through the ringer for anything, I'm smart enough to not repeat the behavior in order to prevent my kids from being picked up by the police and having CPS on my ass again...because I'm not a moron, and I recognize that I'm not above the law.

But the parents aren't saying that they're above the law. They're saying that there is no law.

Exactly! How come my 7yr old can walk to school alone daily but their 10 and 6yr old can not walk to a park.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why do you people swing to the extreme with every rebuttal???

I'm the mom of four. I am a slacker mom. No birth plan. Heck, I didn't even breast feed. My kids walk to the bus stop, ride bikes to 7-11, etc. But if CPS put me through the ringer for anything, I'm smart enough to not repeat the behavior in order to prevent my kids from being picked up by the police and having CPS on my ass again...because I'm not a moron, and I recognize that I'm not above the law.

But the parents aren't saying that they're above the law. They're saying that there is no law.

Exactly! How come my 7yr old can walk to school alone daily but their 10 and 6yr old can not walk to a park.

Your seven-year-old shouldn't be walking to and from school alone completely unsupervised. Wait till next year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if the parents who are hell bent on sending their kids to the park alone before they are old enough are the same parents who drank wine throughout their pregnancies, dragged their babies to bars, and shun after school activities (which involve giving up your me time to schlep kids to/from practice and games)?

And I wonder why these kids aren't playing with kids in their neighborhood? And if there aren't any kids on their street, then why not pick up the phone and invite a kid over to play?

As the mother of four, I find it supremely odd that a ten year old boy would have any interest in playing with his six year old sister...most ten year olds have zero interest in playing with much younger kids. My guess is that the parents use him as a babysitter, and that's a crummy thing to do IMHO.

I wonder if the parents hell bent on making it a law to not allow kids to go to parks are the same one who had a birthing plan, have huge containers of hand sanitizer in their house, who pack 2 diapers bags as a just in case we get stranded, who follow their kids around at the park and tell them where to go, what to play, who to play with, and intervene any disputes. Who sit next to their kids when they do their homework, who pick out their clothes everyday, who put them in an organized activity every day of the week and gladly spend 4 hours commuting each child to and from their future Div 1 sports. Who plans playdates and structures them with planned crafts and games. Who never drop off at a birthday party but always stay, who gives their kid a cell phone at the age of 8 to make sure they can check in all the time. Who says there is no time for their kids to chores, that it isn't fair for them to have responsibilities because they work so hard.

And you wonder why kids aren't playing in their neighborhood? It is because they are in 3-5 activities and then on computer screens for their downtime.

And maybe a 10yr old doesn't want to play with his sister all the time (and why you just assume he does?) but it is good parenting to teach your kids to be good siblings to each other, to have responsibilities, and to not be a selfish whiny kid that always gets their way because Mommy will do it all.

This.is.awesome! 100% true. But every coddling mom will say they never do these things. Watch!

Why do you people swing to the extreme with every rebuttal???

I'm the mom of four. I am a slacker mom. No birth plan. Heck, I didn't even breast feed. My kids walk to the bus stop, ride bikes to 7-11, etc. But if CPS put me through the ringer for anything, I'm smart enough to not repeat the behavior in order to prevent my kids from being picked up by the police and having CPS on my ass again...because I'm not a moron, and I recognize that I'm not above the law.

I disagree. You're not a slacker mom based on what you've said here.

It would be one thing if CPS were enforcing a law. But

1. The law does not apply in this case (the street is not a building or enclosure)
2. Kids in other (often more dangerous) communities in Maryland walk alone all the time without anyone harassing their parents.
3. CPS's earlier finding of "unsubstantiated neglect" indicates that, in their own estimation, letting kids walk alone does not, in and of itself, constitute neglect

So what you're in fact saying is that one would have to be a moron to contradict a government official, even when said official is clearly in the wrong, because they could hurt your family? If I thought I lived in a country like that, I'd move. But it's precisely because I believe this is a one-time screw up by well-meaning but confused county officials with too much time on their hands, that I support the Meitivs' decision to sue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why do you people swing to the extreme with every rebuttal???

I'm the mom of four. I am a slacker mom. No birth plan. Heck, I didn't even breast feed. My kids walk to the bus stop, ride bikes to 7-11, etc. But if CPS put me through the ringer for anything, I'm smart enough to not repeat the behavior in order to prevent my kids from being picked up by the police and having CPS on my ass again...because I'm not a moron, and I recognize that I'm not above the law.

But the parents aren't saying that they're above the law. They're saying that there is no law.

Exactly! How come my 7yr old can walk to school alone daily but their 10 and 6yr old can not walk to a park.

Your seven-year-old shouldn't be walking to and from school alone completely unsupervised. Wait till next year.

MCPS kids (the same county as these kids) can walk and bike alone to and from school.

[Anonymous]

I remember a time when everyone told the LGBT community to stop complaining and causing trouble.

Sometimes you have to fight hard for something you believe in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why do you people swing to the extreme with every rebuttal???

I'm the mom of four. I am a slacker mom. No birth plan. Heck, I didn't even breast feed. My kids walk to the bus stop, ride bikes to 7-11, etc. But if CPS put me through the ringer for anything, I'm smart enough to not repeat the behavior in order to prevent my kids from being picked up by the police and having CPS on my ass again...because I'm not a moron, and I recognize that I'm not above the law.

But the parents aren't saying that they're above the law. They're saying that there is no law.

Exactly! How come my 7yr old can walk to school alone daily but their 10 and 6yr old can not walk to a park.

Your seven-year-old shouldn't be walking to and from school alone completely unsupervised. Wait till next year.

MCPS kids (the same county as these kids) can walk and bike alone to and from school.

Not according to the applicable regs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if the parents who are hell bent on sending their kids to the park alone before they are old enough are the same parents who drank wine throughout their pregnancies, dragged their babies to bars, and shun after school activities (which involve giving up your me time to schlep kids to/from practice and games)?

And I wonder why these kids aren't playing with kids in their neighborhood? And if there aren't any kids on their street, then why not pick up the phone and invite a kid over to play?

As the mother of four, I find it supremely odd that a ten year old boy would have any interest in playing with his six year old sister...most ten year olds have zero interest in playing with much younger kids. My guess is that the parents use him as a babysitter, and that's a crummy thing to do IMHO.

I wonder if the parents hell bent on making it a law to not allow kids to go to parks are the same one who had a birthing plan, have huge containers of hand sanitizer in their house, who pack 2 diapers bags as a just in case we get stranded, who follow their kids around at the park and tell them where to go, what to play, who to play with, and intervene any disputes. Who sit next to their kids when they do their homework, who pick out their clothes everyday, who put them in an organized activity every day of the week and gladly spend 4 hours commuting each child to and from their future Div 1 sports. Who plans playdates and structures them with planned crafts and games. Who never drop off at a birthday party but always stay, who gives their kid a cell phone at the age of 8 to make sure they can check in all the time. Who says there is no time for their kids to chores, that it isn't fair for them to have responsibilities because they work so hard.

And you wonder why kids aren't playing in their neighborhood? It is because they are in 3-5 activities and then on computer screens for their downtime.

And maybe a 10yr old doesn't want to play with his sister all the time (and why you just assume he does?) but it is good parenting to teach your kids to be good siblings to each other, to have responsibilities, and to not be a selfish whiny kid that always gets their way because Mommy will do it all.

This.is.awesome! 100% true. But every coddling mom will say they never do these things. Watch!

Why do you people swing to the extreme with every rebuttal???

I'm the mom of four. I am a slacker mom. No birth plan. Heck, I didn't even breast feed. My kids walk to the bus stop, ride bikes to 7-11, etc. But if CPS put me through the ringer for anything, I'm smart enough to not repeat the behavior in order to prevent my kids from being picked up by the police and having CPS on my ass again...because I'm not a moron, and I recognize that I'm not above the law.

I disagree. You're not a slacker mom based on what you've said here.

It would be one thing if CPS were enforcing a law. But

1. The law does not apply in this case (the street is not a building or enclosure)
2. Kids in other (often more dangerous) communities in Maryland walk alone all the time without anyone harassing their parents.
3. CPS's earlier finding of "unsubstantiated neglect" indicates that, in their own estimation, letting kids walk alone does not, in and of itself, constitute neglect

So what you're in fact saying is that one would have to be a moron to contradict a government official, even when said official is clearly in the wrong, because they could hurt your family? If I thought I lived in a country like that, I'd move. But it's precisely because I believe this is a one-time screw up by well-meaning but confused county officials with too much time on their hands, that I support the Meitivs' decision to sue.

I never said I didn't support their right to protest the law or enforcement of CPS policies. They can mount a protest, pursue legislative advocacy or sue...that's fine with me. But given what they know about CPS (having just been investigated), I think that they gambled by dropping their kids off at the park...gambled and lost. A better parent would fight the system without involving their kids or putting them at risk of further traumatization by the cops and CPS (remember the Meitivs said the first incident was traumatic...why then did they put their kids at risk of another police and CPS encounter???).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if the parents who are hell bent on sending their kids to the park alone before they are old enough are the same parents who drank wine throughout their pregnancies, dragged their babies to bars, and shun after school activities (which involve giving up your me time to schlep kids to/from practice and games)?

And I wonder why these kids aren't playing with kids in their neighborhood? And if there aren't any kids on their street, then why not pick up the phone and invite a kid over to play?

As the mother of four, I find it supremely odd that a ten year old boy would have any interest in playing with his six year old sister...most ten year olds have zero interest in playing with much younger kids. My guess is that the parents use him as a babysitter, and that's a crummy thing to do IMHO.

I wonder if the parents hell bent on making it a law to not allow kids to go to parks are the same one who had a birthing plan, have huge containers of hand sanitizer in their house, who pack 2 diapers bags as a just in case we get stranded, who follow their kids around at the park and tell them where to go, what to play, who to play with, and intervene any disputes. Who sit next to their kids when they do their homework, who pick out their clothes everyday, who put them in an organized activity every day of the week and gladly spend 4 hours commuting each child to and from their future Div 1 sports. Who plans playdates and structures them with planned crafts and games. Who never drop off at a birthday party but always stay, who gives their kid a cell phone at the age of 8 to make sure they can check in all the time. Who says there is no time for their kids to chores, that it isn't fair for them to have responsibilities because they work so hard.

And you wonder why kids aren't playing in their neighborhood? It is because they are in 3-5 activities and then on computer screens for their downtime.

And maybe a 10yr old doesn't want to play with his sister all the time (and why you just assume he does?) but it is good parenting to teach your kids to be good siblings to each other, to have responsibilities, and to not be a selfish whiny kid that always gets their way because Mommy will do it all.

This.is.awesome! 100% true. But every coddling mom will say they never do these things. Watch!

Why do you people swing to the extreme with every rebuttal???

I'm the mom of four. I am a slacker mom. No birth plan. Heck, I didn't even breast feed. My kids walk to the bus stop, ride bikes to 7-11, etc. But if CPS put me through the ringer for anything, I'm smart enough to not repeat the behavior in order to prevent my kids from being picked up by the police and having CPS on my ass again...because I'm not a moron, and I recognize that I'm not above the law.

Well of course I am going to have an extreme rebuttal. If the first PP thinks that all moms who want their kids to have some autonomy must have drank wine during pregnancy, took their babies to bars and sun all after school activities to be a waste - well, I am going to give it right back to them. The fact that people actually think this way. That moms who don't want to hover are bad moms is just ridiculous. There is a difference between teaching your child and giving them independence and freedom to learn and make mistakes. Doing everything for your child and following them around all the time is wrong.