Legal/Divorce/Passport question

[Anonymous]

Legal people, help!

I’m in the early stages of a surprise divorce from someone with dual US and Canadian citizenship. Before this surprise, we had agreed to apply for DC’s Canadian citizenship.

Tonight I realized photos and citizenship application form have been taken from where they were in the house just 2 weeks ago when STBX last accessed the house.

I immediately submitted DC to the Canadian passport system lookout list.

I will bring this up with my attorney but does raising this issue as part of getting temporary orders for custody arrangements make me look crazy and paranoid and aggressive or is this the big deal it feels like? Both parents signatures are required on the passport form but not the citizenship form. DC has a valid U.S. passport in a safe off site location that STBX cannot access.

Forgive me if this is a dumb question. I’m deep in the weeds and can’t see the big picture right now.

[Anonymous]

It is not a big deal. Unless there is something else- like you know dh has a job in Canada or you’ve seen him packing his belongings into a suitcase marked ‘to Canada’- there is nothing to get worked up about.

Btw Canada is a Hague signatory. Meaning if ex tried to kidnap dc, you’d get dc back easily

[Anonymous]

You agreed, where is the issue?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You agreed, where is the issue?

She’s obviously worried he went and finalized the papers on his own and plans to kidnap dc to Canada. If he had significant ties to a non Hague country, maybe it would be rational to get escalated over this, but not from anything she’s said. But emotions run high during divorces and people aren’t rational. They also often want to find reasons to hate the other party.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You agreed, where is the issue?

She’s obviously worried he went and finalized the papers on his own and plans to kidnap dc to Canada. If he had significant ties to a non Hague country, maybe it would be rational to get escalated over this, but not from anything she’s said. But emotions run high during divorces and people aren’t rational. They also often want to find reasons to hate the other party.

It may be a he, and in that case, they should say goodby to their kids as they'll never see them again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You agreed, where is the issue?

She’s obviously worried he went and finalized the papers on his own and plans to kidnap dc to Canada. If he had significant ties to a non Hague country, maybe it would be rational to get escalated over this, but not from anything she’s said. But emotions run high during divorces and people aren’t rational. They also often want to find reasons to hate the other party.

It may be a he, and in that case, they should say goodby to their kids as they'll never see them again.

Oh it’s you, crazy angry dh.

[Anonymous]

You do but sound crazy if you raise it calmly, in the form of a question.

I am sorry for your stress.

[Anonymous]

I don’t know anything about your specific issue. Other than that I am in the middle of the contentious divorce right now and I would be very concerned.

Why would these things be taken by your ex if they weren’t intended to be used. Is there somewhere else they could get to you from Canada?

I think it’s certainly worth raising the issue to your lawyer immediately. Being a little bit over the top about it can’t hurt, but the opposite alternative could have more risk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know anything about your specific issue. Other than that I am in the middle of the contentious divorce right now and I would be very concerned.

Why would these things be taken by your ex if they weren’t intended to be used. Is there somewhere else they could get to you from Canada?

I think it’s certainly worth raising the issue to your lawyer immediately. Being a little bit over the top about it can’t hurt, but the opposite alternative could have more risk.

I think you mean is there somewhere else they could get to? Yes. Family in Asia and opportunity to take work role in multiple countries in Europe. All Hague signatories, though. And frankly I don’t even think he could handle 2 nights and air travel with DC, let alone an entire life.

But: I think he is doing it to assert power and control and may not be fully aware of the steps required for a passport. It is still more than coincidental and all of the other paper mess is still there so I don’t think it was part of a recycling effort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is not a big deal. Unless there is something else- like you know dh has a job in Canada or you’ve seen him packing his belongings into a suitcase marked ‘to Canada’- there is nothing to get worked up about.

Btw Canada is a Hague signatory. Meaning if ex tried to kidnap dc, you’d get dc back easily

NP. There no "easily" in situations like this. Hague signatory or not, if for some reason OP's ex got to Toronto with her kid she'd have a mess on her hands (and age a decade in the process). Yes she'd probably retrieve her child, but I wouldn't wish this stress on anyone. This is assuming Canada is not the stop-over to a non-Hague destination. The citizenship papers didn't walk away by accident. I agree that panic is not useful. But I'd be notifying my attorney immediately.

[Anonymous]

Even with a Canadian passport, they would get stopped at immigration most likely. I wouldn't worry about it and yes, I think you escalated too much.

[Anonymous]

You put something in the agreement that says the child can’t get a passport until age 18 and required your written consent to leave the country.

[Anonymous]

You won't sound crazy or like you're over exaggerating if you raise questions in a calm manner and to better understand the situation and what can be done/what to look out for.
Don't make any accusations against him. Don't come at him and say he can't handle your kid. Don't suggest he's going to run with your kid to Asia or Europe.

[Anonymous]

I got some details from DC having a meltdown about something completely unrelated but related. Child was upset about hearing about a new classmate's Canadian passport and said "now [STBX] will never get mine for me like he said!".

Apparently STBX had told DC he was applying for it right away and DC kept asking about it as recently as last spring, and STBX just said it was taking a really long time. DC said they knew it was probably not true but they also really wanted their second passport so they hoped it was true.

So from what I unraveled to make that whole story make sense: citizenship was applied for and received 2 years ago without my knowledge. The form I saw must have been an extra one.

I found a copy of the citizenship papers, though, so that exists.

According to DC, they took the photos 2 years ago together at a place down the street from us right after the citizenship was done. From what I can tell the photos are printed with the day they were taken, and they would not be accepted if they were 2 years old. So I think that it should be ok.

[Anonymous]

Sorry to hijack this thread -

But curious headed into divorce with a foreign partner what other people have done.

I can envision wanting to travel abroad with my kids one day so maybe it’s best to leave the whole control over passports thing out. Don’t want to be naive tho.

Are there any other reasons than potential kidnapping that I should be wary of my children having passports/leaving the country for travel, or a citizenship I don’t have?