Transparency: HS Coaches and Pay-For-Play

[Anonymous]

Some HS coaches make hundreds of thousands funneling current and potential players into their off season travel orgs or those of their peers (a kind of quid pro quo). It is often an open secret that t playing for these orgs is a requirement for most.

Coaches can’t directly coach their players in the HS off season (except for Green Days), but that doesn’t stop them from taking families money through travel sport teams and workout facilities. Maybe VHSL and high schools don’t disclose this coaching scheme because then they couldn’t find coaches to hire if they didn’t look the other way?

VHSL (and other state governing bodies), should require coaches, at a minimum, to disclose their outside HS sport associations. Better if parents had an idea of how much each coach profited from those associations.

What organization(s) do your HS coaches own or work for in the off-season?

This isn’t a should they or shouldn’t they be able to profit on the side. More of a heads up for parents of future HS players. Plenty of parents with bubble athletes are left in the dark. I’ve seen more than one family in that situation. It is almost intentional.

In baseball, perhaps the most prominent example is MVP from which *I think* all local HS coaches get a cut.

[Anonymous]

The high school season is short. You don’t want these coaches to work other jobs? It’s not okay if the coach making it a requirement to pay them to be in the team but usually that’s not the case. Google can tell where any of the coaches are working. There are too many teams and schools for us to post.

I’m thinking of my daughter’s school and fall sport - volleyball. I know several club teams the coaches were at. Anyone can find this information easily. HS season is Aug - Oct. Club season is Nov - July. It’s much longer, of course these people are going to find other jobs.

[Anonymous]

I feel like there are a few different levels to this:

1. Running a travel org to serve as a pipeline for your program - Not a problem as long as it is clear that players from your org are not being given preferential treatment on the high school team

2. Directly coaching a team in your travel org with players who will eventually play on your HS team - Again, not a problem as long as the players on the team you coach are not being given preferential treatment. It might be tougher to get people to believe that you aren't favoring players you have coached for years though.

3. Giving paid private lessons to a player on the HS team or one who will attend your HS - I feel like this is a much bigger conflict of interest, akin to a teacher tutoring a student in their class. Many state athletic associations explicitly do not allow this, although it is not against the rules in VA.

[Anonymous]

Making "hundreds of thousands"? "Taking families money"?

Your entire premise is absurd. Public school coaches aren't making tons of money off some "scheme" - and if the club/private training business were so lucrative, there would be ZERO incentive for anyone to waste time coaching public school sports.

[Anonymous]

I have a neighbor that is a teacher in local HS and her DH coaches boy's team in that specific HS. Both coach/run three travel teams their kids are on. Oldest kid got a scholarship for DIII LAX. DH works a well-paying job not related to LAX or teaching. We were invited to a few of their LAX kids parties and parents said that they keep it affordable and not too crazy. I think it depends on the coaches/team.

[Anonymous]

I will say this…I actually founded a travel organization with the intent that it would be volunteer parent coaches supporting one paid coach and the fees would be set to cover 100% of just costs (umpires at games, some shared batting helmets (like 5 per team), one set of catcher’s gear, jerseys, tournament entrance fees, and field permit fees).

It added up to more than you would think. This was maybe 8 years ago and the direct costs were like $800/kid for a 15 person team.

The one paid coach was getting $2000 for the season for two practices per week, mainly DH on weekend and two tournaments. We didn’t do any overnight tourneys so we didn’t have to cover any travel costs for the coach.

I would imagine just those direct costs today would probably put it at $1200+ per kid.

So use that as a benchmark to determine if anyone is getting rich off their travel fees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a neighbor that is a teacher in local HS and her DH coaches boy's team in that specific HS. Both coach/run three travel teams their kids are on. Oldest kid got a scholarship for DIII LAX. DH works a well-paying job not related to LAX or teaching. We were invited to a few of their LAX kids parties and parents said that they keep it affordable and not too crazy. I think it depends on the coaches/team.

BS. no sports scholarships in D3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I will say this…I actually founded a travel organization with the intent that it would be volunteer parent coaches supporting one paid coach and the fees would be set to cover 100% of just costs (umpires at games, some shared batting helmets (like 5 per team), one set of catcher’s gear, jerseys, tournament entrance fees, and field permit fees).

It added up to more than you would think. This was maybe 8 years ago and the direct costs were like $800/kid for a 15 person team.

The one paid coach was getting $2000 for the season for two practices per week, mainly DH on weekend and two tournaments. We didn’t do any overnight tourneys so we didn’t have to cover any travel costs for the coach.

I would imagine just those direct costs today would probably put it at $1200+ per kid.

So use that as a benchmark to determine if anyone is getting rich off their travel fees.

I'm on the board of an organization that includes a non-profit, volunteer run travel organization as part of it, and this checks out. We don't have the paid coach, but they do more tournaments than you stated (so more $$$), and you didn't mention the astronomical cost of winter training space.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will say this…I actually founded a travel organization with the intent that it would be volunteer parent coaches supporting one paid coach and the fees would be set to cover 100% of just costs (umpires at games, some shared batting helmets (like 5 per team), one set of catcher’s gear, jerseys, tournament entrance fees, and field permit fees).

It added up to more than you would think. This was maybe 8 years ago and the direct costs were like $800/kid for a 15 person team.

The one paid coach was getting $2000 for the season for two practices per week, mainly DH on weekend and two tournaments. We didn’t do any overnight tourneys so we didn’t have to cover any travel costs for the coach.

I would imagine just those direct costs today would probably put it at $1200+ per kid.

So use that as a benchmark to determine if anyone is getting rich off their travel fees.

I'm on the board of an organization that includes a non-profit, volunteer run travel organization as part of it, and this checks out. We don't have the paid coach, but they do more tournaments than you stated (so more $$$), and you didn't mention the astronomical cost of winter training space.

We didn’t deal with Winter training.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Making "hundreds of thousands"? "Taking families money"?

Your entire premise is absurd. Public school coaches aren't making tons of money off some "scheme" - and if the club/private training business were so lucrative, there would be ZERO incentive for anyone to waste time coaching public school sports.

Have you looked into this? Even Cal Ripken dumped minor league teams because there was more money to be made off youth sports. He’s not HS coach, but the point is that there is a lot of money to make off young athletes, most of whom will not play on the HS team and if they make it to play college, the so-called savings (scholarship) is a drop in the bucket.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a neighbor that is a teacher in local HS and her DH coaches boy's team in that specific HS. Both coach/run three travel teams their kids are on. Oldest kid got a scholarship for DIII LAX. DH works a well-paying job not related to LAX or teaching. We were invited to a few of their LAX kids parties and parents said that they keep it affordable and not too crazy. I think it depends on the coaches/team.

I thought D3 could only award academic scholarships. However, I know some that wink-wink give those academic scholarships to get some athletes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I will say this…I actually founded a travel organization with the intent that it would be volunteer parent coaches supporting one paid coach and the fees would be set to cover 100% of just costs (umpires at games, some shared batting helmets (like 5 per team), one set of catcher’s gear, jerseys, tournament entrance fees, and field permit fees).

It added up to more than you would think. This was maybe 8 years ago and the direct costs were like $800/kid for a 15 person team.

The one paid coach was getting $2000 for the season for two practices per week, mainly DH on weekend and two tournaments. We didn’t do any overnight tourneys so we didn’t have to cover any travel costs for the coach.

I would imagine just those direct costs today would probably put it at $1200+ per kid.

So use that as a benchmark to determine if anyone is getting rich off their travel fees.

Why can traditional organizations like Little League do the same for far less? They are bleeding but often provide the same kind of experience (parent coaches with some who played at high levels — college and pro).

[Anonymous]

I think this is partly what led to the issues with the Hayfield HS football scandal.

[Anonymous]

This piece has some good suggestions:

https://www.askcoachwolff.com/blog/conflict-of-interest-should-hs-coaches-be-allowed-to-run-summer-club-teams-or-offer-private-coaching-sessions-for-pay-to-their-players

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will say this…I actually founded a travel organization with the intent that it would be volunteer parent coaches supporting one paid coach and the fees would be set to cover 100% of just costs (umpires at games, some shared batting helmets (like 5 per team), one set of catcher’s gear, jerseys, tournament entrance fees, and field permit fees).

It added up to more than you would think. This was maybe 8 years ago and the direct costs were like $800/kid for a 15 person team.

The one paid coach was getting $2000 for the season for two practices per week, mainly DH on weekend and two tournaments. We didn’t do any overnight tourneys so we didn’t have to cover any travel costs for the coach.

I would imagine just those direct costs today would probably put it at $1200+ per kid.

So use that as a benchmark to determine if anyone is getting rich off their travel fees.

Why can traditional organizations like Little League do the same for far less? They are bleeding but often provide the same kind of experience (parent coaches with some who played at high levels — college and pro).

For us, it’s the permit fees and having a paid coach spread over 15 players…I didn’t even mention that there are some admin costs of a non-profit.

Also, each tournament might be like $750/team while LL has none.

LL will get fields for a certain amount of time and sometime they make teams double up for practice. Especially the kids at the 6 year old ages where practice is kind of nothing. Also, our LL only practice once per week for 90 minutes vs travel at 2 hours twice per week.

Our LL also gets uniforms for free.

BTW, I would say less than 10% of our LL coaches ever played in college and one played Minors…but was ironically a terrible coach.