Experiences with Progressive v. Traditional for (Managed) ADHD

[Anonymous]

Hi--looking for families with experience with traditional/more structured versus progressive learning environments for children with (managed) ADHD. On the one hand, DC is interest-based, and the progressive deep-dive, somewhat child-led learning model seems optimal for our kid who loves learning and runs with that sort of thing. On the other hand, even though DC doesn't always "like" imposed structure, DC really thrives with structure and predictability. It seems that the private schools we've looked at really lean in one or the other of the two directions (compare, e.g., GDS with STA).

Looking for experiences if you're in a similar situation?

[Anonymous]

Depends how serious the ADHD, whether there's a social skills deficit, and whether you think inattentiveness would fly under the radar and the school would not intervene.

And it depends on your comfort with "child-led" meaning your child is allowed to avoid certain tasks or subjects and miss out on parts of the curriculum.

Some schools are willing to adjust their "progressive" approach by giving very clear instructions and routines to specific students who benefit from that. If the school isn't self-aware about this issue, beware.

[Anonymous]

Often a good progressive classroom (modern, I don’t know about 100 year old) has invisible structure. The invisible structures offer routines, discussed rules, and boundaries. Understanding those allows students to develop independence and use their curiosity to find answers. Not all teachers understand how to put those invisible structures in place. It can vary within a school too.

By invisible structures, I don’t mean students have to infer them, I mean it looks like students are functioning completely independently, when they’ve already internalized the structures.

Yes, reminders are part of it. They are allowed to be the age they are.mediocre teachers try to make them older than they are.

It’s not a great environment for a kid whose behavioral issues constantly interfere with their own or others’ work. If they need constant one-on-one teacher support to function, it’s not going to work. If they drift, and can respond to reminders, it can work.

[Anonymous]

The thing with ADHD is that busy, happy, active classroom vibe that is so pleasant and allows for much-needed movement and variety can also be really distracting and make it hard for the child with ADHD to focus. Really think about how this might play out for your child, especially if the classroom is not especially spacious and the class size not especially small.

When kids with ADHD are given a lot of choice of activities, they sometimes flit from one to another without learning much. Yes sometimes they hyper focus and deep dive, but not always, especially in a high distraction environment. I'm sure you want your child to learn the whole curriculum, not just preferred topics. And if they don't take an interest in things outside those topics without a lot of adult coaxing, then it might not happen at all. Schools will tell you they awaken the child's interests so that it's still child-led but the curriculum is covered, but realistically the teacher cannot spend all day doing that for one kid who doesn't come to it naturally.

These schools also tend to expect age-appropriate social skills and working through disagreements. If social skills and emotional regulation are not age-appropriate for your child, it might not be a good fit.

[Anonymous]

My son attended a progressive for several years and there is structure. It’s just not the rigid structure you see in public school. My inattentive adhd daughter went to public school which was a challenge due to the distracting behavior of classmates and the fact that there was little classroom engagement. I think she would have thrived in a progressive environment where lessons felt relevant. But this is such a personal decision. Not very progressive is the same. Not every public is the same. And not every child with ADHD is the same. The best test of fit is to ask to observe a classroom if possible and see how the shadow day goes.

[Anonymous]

My DC with ADHD (medicated/managed) and anxiety has thrived at a small parochial school. Classroom size is small, expectations are clear, kids are generally well-behaved, and it’s a very predictable environment.

[Anonymous]

For those with experiences in progressive-type environments, I guess I assumed that it was child-driven, but within a subject (e.g., there's a math block, a literature block, etc., and within that structured block it's more interest driven). These responses, however, suggest something more Montessori like, where even the subject is up to the child. We're touring schools and trying to figure this out, of course, but I thought I'd ask for clarification for those who have these experiences. I'm clearly a newbie!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For those with experiences in progressive-type environments, I guess I assumed that it was child-driven, but within a subject (e.g., there's a math block, a literature block, etc., and within that structured block it's more interest driven). These responses, however, suggest something more Montessori like, where even the subject is up to the child. We're touring schools and trying to figure this out, of course, but I thought I'd ask for clarification for those who have these experiences. I'm clearly a newbie!

DC was in a Montessori school from infant through 4th grade. It is not so “student-led” that “even the subject is up to the child.” They were divided by ability into small groups for math and reading lessons that happened at regular times. During work times - that is, Montessori work - the children have self-agency in what works to choose from the options provided, but they also had weekly work plans with specific subject works and used those as checklists to guide their choices. They could not just choose not to learn any math, for example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For those with experiences in progressive-type environments, I guess I assumed that it was child-driven, but within a subject (e.g., there's a math block, a literature block, etc., and within that structured block it's more interest driven). These responses, however, suggest something more Montessori like, where even the subject is up to the child. We're touring schools and trying to figure this out, of course, but I thought I'd ask for clarification for those who have these experiences. I'm clearly a newbie!

It really just depends on the school. And on how good the teacher is at getting the kids to do less preferred subjects, and how receptive the child is to doing them. For most kids this is fine, but you have to consider how it plays out for your specific child. Sometimes I think "child-led" really means that it should *feel* child-led to the child, but really the teacher is skillful enough to get the children interested in things they otherwise wouldn't choose to engage in.

Also, long blocks of time to deep dive on chosen topics necessarily take time from other subjects. Whether that's good or bad to you, I don't know. But it tends to make your child strong where they are already strong, at the expense of areas where they really need improvement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those with experiences in progressive-type environments, I guess I assumed that it was child-driven, but within a subject (e.g., there's a math block, a literature block, etc., and within that structured block it's more interest driven). These responses, however, suggest something more Montessori like, where even the subject is up to the child. We're touring schools and trying to figure this out, of course, but I thought I'd ask for clarification for those who have these experiences. I'm clearly a newbie!

DC was in a Montessori school from infant through 4th grade. It is not so “student-led” that “even the subject is up to the child.” They were divided by ability into small groups for math and reading lessons that happened at regular times. During work times - that is, Montessori work - the children have self-agency in what works to choose from the options provided, but they also had weekly work plans with specific subject works and used those as checklists to guide their choices. They could not just choose not to learn any math, for example.

This squares with our experience. My ADHD kid was in a Montessori program through 5th and thrived. There was plenty of structure, just of a different sort than traditional schools.

Middle school was a tough transition back, but I think traditional elementary would have been a disaster for her.

[Anonymous]

Your kid doesn’t actually have ADHD so let’s start there. Pick whatever school you like best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Often a good progressive classroom (modern, I don’t know about 100 year old) has invisible structure. The invisible structures offer routines, discussed rules, and boundaries. Understanding those allows students to develop independence and use their curiosity to find answers. Not all teachers understand how to put those invisible structures in place. It can vary within a school too.

By invisible structures, I don’t mean students have to infer them, I mean it looks like students are functioning completely independently, when they’ve already internalized the structures.

Yes, reminders are part of it. They are allowed to be the age they are.mediocre teachers try to make them older than they are.

It’s not a great environment for a kid whose behavioral issues constantly interfere with their own or others’ work. If they need constant one-on-one teacher support to function, it’s not going to work. If they drift, and can respond to reminders, it can work.

I went to a progressive school in the '90s and this is a really good summary.

I was coming from a large public school where you had to ask permission to sharpen your pencil or take an extra marker – so going to a class of 20 kids and 2 teachers where you didn't necessarily have to raise your hand felt like the wild west. But looking back, we were able to have all this freedom to be creative and explorative because there was really thoughtful structure underlying it. In many ways, there was more structure than some of the more traditional/rule-heavy classrooms I've been in. It's not the right option for everyone, but as PP, a well-managed progressive classroom can be amazing.

[Anonymous]

My DS tried both and was more successful in the traditional school model. By far. But it was also paired with a lot of freedom at home to pursue his own interests and his choice of extracurricular activities -- which were a lot less structed than others in this area. He needed downtime after school and the ability to be a lot less structured on weekends and summer. He is now in college and doing great (at a small school with a structured curriculum).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Depends how serious the ADHD, whether there's a social skills deficit, and whether you think inattentiveness would fly under the radar and the school would not intervene.

And it depends on your comfort with "child-led" meaning your child is allowed to avoid certain tasks or subjects and miss out on parts of the curriculum.

Some schools are willing to adjust their "progressive" approach by giving very clear instructions and routines to specific students who benefit from that. If the school isn't self-aware about this issue, beware.

Children are NOT allowed to avoid tasks or part of the curriculum. This is a misunderstanding of progressive child led work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends how serious the ADHD, whether there's a social skills deficit, and whether you think inattentiveness would fly under the radar and the school would not intervene.

And it depends on your comfort with "child-led" meaning your child is allowed to avoid certain tasks or subjects and miss out on parts of the curriculum.

Some schools are willing to adjust their "progressive" approach by giving very clear instructions and routines to specific students who benefit from that. If the school isn't self-aware about this issue, beware.

Children are NOT allowed to avoid tasks or part of the curriculum. This is a misunderstanding of progressive child led work.

Well they're not supposed to, but it happens. Especially with a child who hyper focuses on preferred topics and is inattentive to other topics.