Schism in the church

[Anonymous]

Dual posted: Steve Bannon has been talking a lot about the Catholic church - and about how Pope Leo's election will result in a schism between the traditionalists and the left-leading Pope Leo. With Vance spending 2 weeks out of 1 month in the Vatican, it seems they are trying to create the split. Why are they so focused on the Catholic church all of a sudden and what are they trying to achieve?

[Anonymous]

The right wingers are trying to take control of a lot of institutions right now. Where they haven't succeeded they're trying to weaken the power of the institutions.

The other reality is the most serious schism threat in recent years came from Germany. The church had to give German churches a limited amount of autonomy to prevent this.

[Anonymous]

Who’s they? I haven’t read anything about this. I think you watch CNN or something because “right wingers” don’t care about this at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dual posted: Steve Bannon has been talking a lot about the Catholic church - and about how Pope Leo's election will result in a schism between the traditionalists and the left-leading Pope Leo. With Vance spending 2 weeks out of 1 month in the Vatican, it seems they are trying to create the split. Why are they so focused on the Catholic church all of a sudden and what are they trying to achieve?

Assuming that what you say about Steve Bannon is accurate, I think that the current US Republican Party, headed by Trump, is trying to keep US Catholics aligned with him and not becoming more liberal, like the Pope and apparently the Cardinals who elected him.

Bannon may call them traditionalists and left-leaning. I call them pro- or anti-Trump. Most of the world is anti-Trump. Only some religious Americans are pro-Trump. They don't really care that Trump himself is an atheist, as long as he takes their side. Trump himself doesn't really care either, as long as they vote for him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who’s they? I haven’t read anything about this. I think you watch CNN or something because “right wingers” don’t care about this at all.

Of course you haven't read anything about this. "They" are simply doing it.

[Anonymous]

Steve Bannon - the guy behind a lot of MAGA messaging. He is talking about it a lot - talking about creating a right-wing Catholicism separate from the Pope. He says, probably correctly, that the Catholic church is broke. It has a lot of money in assets but not enough liquid money. The Catholic church can't sell off property in a fire sale and they are hurting for cash. He says they want US money and the traditional Catholics are trying to shut that option down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Steve Bannon - the guy behind a lot of MAGA messaging. He is talking about it a lot - talking about creating a right-wing Catholicism separate from the Pope. He says, probably correctly, that the Catholic church is broke. It has a lot of money in assets but not enough liquid money. The Catholic church can't sell off property in a fire sale and they are hurting for cash. He says they want US money and the traditional Catholics are trying to shut that option down.

Does this have anything to do with that right-wing conference that took place concurrent with the Conclave? The truth is that it is the American Church that is broke. All these uhnw rwnj give to libertarian/culture war issues while our churches and schools have leaky roofs and windows. Bannon says all this stuff to influence the conversation but the fact is that there are other people who know the internal workings of the church, too, who may not have his megaphone but have their own ways of getting the word out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The right wingers are trying to take control of a lot of institutions right now. Where they haven't succeeded they're trying to weaken the power of the institutions.

The other reality is the most serious schism threat in recent years came from Germany. The church had to give German churches a limited amount of autonomy to prevent this.

+1 I love the German church. They are at the forefront of all that is right and good in our Church.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dual posted: Steve Bannon has been talking a lot about the Catholic church - and about how Pope Leo's election will result in a schism between the traditionalists and the left-leading Pope Leo. With Vance spending 2 weeks out of 1 month in the Vatican, it seems they are trying to create the split. Why are they so focused on the Catholic church all of a sudden and what are they trying to achieve?

You know what I say about this, “Hey, Steve - Don’t let the door hit you on your way out!”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Steve Bannon - the guy behind a lot of MAGA messaging. He is talking about it a lot - talking about creating a right-wing Catholicism separate from the Pope. He says, probably correctly, that the Catholic church is broke. It has a lot of money in assets but not enough liquid money. The Catholic church can't sell off property in a fire sale and they are hurting for cash. He says they want US money and the traditional Catholics are trying to shut that option down.

A little odd, don't you think, that Bannon is trying to dissociate American Catholics from the Church right after an American is chosen as Pope? Why would he be trying to distance the church from what would normally be considered a great honor?

Because he knows it's not a great honor, that's why.

He knows it's a slap in the face to religious Trumpsters who don't even care that the guy they voted for is an atheist.

[Anonymous]

More American narcissism. There is slight potential for schism but the poles of the spectrum are in Germany and Africa. Highly unlikely that American traditionalists will be the vanguard of a schism, especially with the FSSP already in place.

If Pope Leo relaxes TC it placates all but the most vocal traditionalists in America.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:More American narcissism. There is slight potential for schism but the poles of the spectrum are in Germany and Africa. Highly unlikely that American traditionalists will be the vanguard of a schism, especially with the FSSP already in place.

If Pope Leo relaxes TC it placates all but the most vocal traditionalists in America.

A sure sign of American narcissism is pp's lack of explaining what FSSP and TC stand for - as if we all should know.

[Anonymous]

Bannon's goal is to disrupt as much of global society as he possible can. He's often spoken about this. He's a proponent of the "destroy first, rebuild later" brand of neo-populism. He himself traveled to Europe during the first Trump administration to try to fire up ultra-right politics across the continent. It didn't go as well as he wanted, because he didn't realize that various groups, such as neo-Nazis and ultra-conservative Catholics, deeply distrust America.

The Catholic Church is a targeted institution because it's a hugely powerful one, and schisms have been threatened for decades. It's "juicy", on-trend, fodder for Bannon's podcast. But don't worry, neither Bannon nor Vance have any sort of influence in the Church If there's a schism, it will be the natural consequence of decades and decades of deepening religious differences across multiple continents. I know Vance is making himself a pest at the Vatican, to stay in the news and portray himself as having an "in" that Trump cannot have, but no one takes him seriously there!

[Anonymous]

Oh, I wish all the anti Vatican II people would form their own separate church and they can even name their own pope if they want.

The Holy Spirit has moved within the church in the selection of this pope. If the people who want to turn back the church to pre Vatican II times are not happy with that message, they could split off and form a church that harkens back to an earlier era that they prefer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More American narcissism. There is slight potential for schism but the poles of the spectrum are in Germany and Africa. Highly unlikely that American traditionalists will be the vanguard of a schism, especially with the FSSP already in place.

If Pope Leo relaxes TC it placates all but the most vocal traditionalists in America.

A sure sign of American narcissism is pp's lack of explaining what FSSP and TC stand for - as if we all should know.

FSSP is an acronym of the Latin Fraternitas Sacerdotalis Sancti Petri, the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter. It is not an order of priests, but rather a society of priests and seminarians who celebrate masses and sacraments according to the Roman rite that prevailed before Vatican II, for example, the Tridentine mass in Latin. They are in communion with the Church.

I am not sure what TC is. Possibly Traditional Catholicism? Implying people who prefer what is commonly referred to as TLM, the traditional Latin mass. I agree with PP that if Pope Leo relaxes the strictures Pope Francis put in on the TLM, almost all of the traditional Catholics will be good with him. Most are not political; they just find the TLM enhances their spirituality in a way that the modern mass does not.

And, as I remarked, on the other thread on this topic, who can blame them given the horrendous music those of us (including me) who attend today's nontraditional masses are subject to. From attending them, you would never believe that Catholicism gave the world some of its most outstanding music unless you otherwise knew.