Gaza War, Part 3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What is cruel about this? Hamas will no longer be there, so why not use this prime land for homes for Israeli families, particularly Israeli families who lost loved ones to the hands of Hamas over the years?

Sorry you’re too poor for Israel proper.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maher with a dose of reality for the Hamas fangurls:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/bill-maher-urges-palestinians-not-believe-myth-from-river-to-sea-israel-going-nowhere

Israel is free to do whatever it damn wants which seems to be to kill as many Palestinians as possible but in that case Jewish people should stop acting shocked when the rest of the world views Israel as a heartless, cold blooded nation with no soul

This is the most common sense thing I have read about what is going on...and a few years ago it would not all have had to been said, but progressives have distored common sense.

Okay. Two things.

1. It is illogical to say "bad things happen and people get moved all the time" but conclude this with "Israel is here to stay". If things change and people move, they can change for Israel too.

2. "Everyone comes to an accommodation" not by hugs and kisses, but through restoration of rights. There is a reason Jews can reclaim stolen and compensated property in many places in Europe - because people acknowledged that what happened to them was unjust. They weren't told to just get over it. Israel restores pre-1948 property to Jews who can prove ownership. Not to Arabs, mind you. Never to Arabs. You come to an accommodation when the party that wronged you acknowledges the wrong and makes an effort to compensate for the wrong. "Get over it" is not an accommodation.

3. I find it terribly ironic when people parrot the line of "Palestinians were offered their own state on three different occasions!" but you press them for details and turns out they don't know crap about what was actually offered.

DP.

I know exactly what was offered on each occasion and think that the following is inarguably true:

1. The Palestinians will not get a better deal in the future than what they’ve previously been offered.

2. The Palestinian people would be FAR better off today had they accepted any of the previous offers.

By any measure of real world impact, the Palestinian leadership has chosen poorly.

Yes they have.

During decolonization, they were given a very nice state that stretched from the border with Lebanon to the Negev. Hills. Forests, a good coastline on the Mediterranean. Towns like Nazareth and Hebron. Olive groves. But they chose war instead.

In 1993, with the Oslo Accords, they were given all of Gaza and 97 percent of the West Bank. Israel would have compensated the remaining 3 percent with their own lands. All the West Bank settlers would have been long gone by now.

Instead, Palestinians chose intifada.

I don't mean this unkindly, but Palestinians seem to be incapable of having effective leadership. They choose Hamas. They choose Islamic Jihad. They choose the Palestinian Authority, one of the most corrupt parties in the world. Back on the day, the chose the PLO - murdering Olympic athletes, hijacking airplanes, causing a civil war in Lebanon, assassinating Prime Ministers in Jordan, supporting the invasion of Kuwait.

I mean, what is there to say. If they had chosen a Gandhi or a MLK, they would have had a state for a long time now. But they don't. They always choose terrorism, violence, corruption, fanaticism. How do you work with this?

Serious question: How do you keep a straight face pretending that someone like Bibi would have EVER allowed the establishment of a Palestinian state of any kind over the past 27 years? Seriously, how do you do it?

i think Netanyahu and Likud are terrible.

Israelis are genuinely stupid for going with this. There are a lot of extremists in Israel. I mean they murdered Yitzhak Rabin for goodness sake. Israelis are not ipso facto wonderful people.

But Palestinians are dumber

They've had numerous chances for a good, independent state. And they've rejected all of them.

I mean, what is there to do? Who the hell do you even negotiate with?

Palestinians have been idiots for 80 years. That's the problem. They think massacring a 1000+ innocent people and kidnapping hundreds of others is a great idea.

Yeah, well, that was a terrible idea and they are paying the consequences

Israelis aren't wonderful, but Palestinians are literally the dumbest people on the planet. They chose this.

How are Palestinians dumber? Bibi literally funds Hamas while elderly Holocaust survivors barely have enough to eat in Israel. That’s smart ?

Do you think Palestinians would ever support Ben Gvir or the right wing Kahanists/extremists and give them money to create settlements in the West Bank? They wouldn’t but Israel playing with fire until it got burned by Hamas

Your assumption is that Palestinians are docile idiots that got played by Netanyahu. And that Hamas is nothing more than a fabrication created by Israel.

Yeah, well, no.

Israelis made a terrible mistake electing this government. And they recognize that now. Netanyahu is polling at 4 percent presently. He'll be done once there are elections again. And there will be an investigation about the security failures that led to 10/7.

But Palestinians? Optimistically, this war ends when Sinwar is dead. Realistically, nothing ends until Palestinians choose some decent leaders. And they've shown no capacity to do so.

Israel has every right to destroy Hamas. Palestinians in Gaza chose war. It's brutal. It's unfair. But this is what Palestinians in Gaza chose for themselves. If you don't like the consequences, maybe don't invade and massacre and rape and kidnap a bunch of innocent people. And maybe choose better leaders. Every death is on the Palestinians in Gaza. They chose poorly - as they always seem to do.

Israel, because it's a democracy and notably nearly 25 percent Arab, will correct itself. But if Palestinians continue to choose Islamic extremists like Hamas or corrupt dinosaurs like the PA, well, things are going to continue to be a little hopeless. It's all up to the Palestinian people.

Easy to justify your pro-Israel views by calling Palestinians stupid but I doubt that they are any more stupid than you or me. All people want the same thing - safety, security, food, housing, jobs, a future for their children. They were offered bad deals - end of story.

If the Hamas citizens were intelligent, they would be celebrating the arrival of the IDF on their humanitarian mission and offering their support. Instead they continue to back Hamas and attach the brave men and women (heroes) of the IDF every day.

lol IDF can’t help killing their own damn hostages. Being Jewish and Israeli apparently isn’t enough to avoid the IDF’s killing spree. Why would anyone celebrate the arrival of these trigger happy schlemazlik? You’re funny.

I think you are turning a mistake into an argument.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maher with a dose of reality for the Hamas fangurls:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/bill-maher-urges-palestinians-not-believe-myth-from-river-to-sea-israel-going-nowhere

Israel is free to do whatever it damn wants which seems to be to kill as many Palestinians as possible but in that case Jewish people should stop acting shocked when the rest of the world views Israel as a heartless, cold blooded nation with no soul

This is the most common sense thing I have read about what is going on...and a few years ago it would not all have had to been said, but progressives have distored common sense.

Okay. Two things.

1. It is illogical to say "bad things happen and people get moved all the time" but conclude this with "Israel is here to stay". If things change and people move, they can change for Israel too.

2. "Everyone comes to an accommodation" not by hugs and kisses, but through restoration of rights. There is a reason Jews can reclaim stolen and compensated property in many places in Europe - because people acknowledged that what happened to them was unjust. They weren't told to just get over it. Israel restores pre-1948 property to Jews who can prove ownership. Not to Arabs, mind you. Never to Arabs. You come to an accommodation when the party that wronged you acknowledges the wrong and makes an effort to compensate for the wrong. "Get over it" is not an accommodation.

3. I find it terribly ironic when people parrot the line of "Palestinians were offered their own state on three different occasions!" but you press them for details and turns out they don't know crap about what was actually offered.

DP.

I know exactly what was offered on each occasion and think that the following is inarguably true:

1. The Palestinians will not get a better deal in the future than what they’ve previously been offered.

2. The Palestinian people would be FAR better off today had they accepted any of the previous offers.

By any measure of real world impact, the Palestinian leadership has chosen poorly.

Yes they have.

During decolonization, they were given a very nice state that stretched from the border with Lebanon to the Negev. Hills. Forests, a good coastline on the Mediterranean. Towns like Nazareth and Hebron. Olive groves. But they chose war instead.

In 1993, with the Oslo Accords, they were given all of Gaza and 97 percent of the West Bank. Israel would have compensated the remaining 3 percent with their own lands. All the West Bank settlers would have been long gone by now.

Instead, Palestinians chose intifada.

I don't mean this unkindly, but Palestinians seem to be incapable of having effective leadership. They choose Hamas. They choose Islamic Jihad. They choose the Palestinian Authority, one of the most corrupt parties in the world. Back on the day, the chose the PLO - murdering Olympic athletes, hijacking airplanes, causing a civil war in Lebanon, assassinating Prime Ministers in Jordan, supporting the invasion of Kuwait.

I mean, what is there to say. If they had chosen a Gandhi or a MLK, they would have had a state for a long time now. But they don't. They always choose terrorism, violence, corruption, fanaticism. How do you work with this?

Serious question: How do you keep a straight face pretending that someone like Bibi would have EVER allowed the establishment of a Palestinian state of any kind over the past 27 years? Seriously, how do you do it?

i think Netanyahu and Likud are terrible.

Israelis are genuinely stupid for going with this. There are a lot of extremists in Israel. I mean they murdered Yitzhak Rabin for goodness sake. Israelis are not ipso facto wonderful people.

But Palestinians are dumber

They've had numerous chances for a good, independent state. And they've rejected all of them.

I mean, what is there to do? Who the hell do you even negotiate with?

Palestinians have been idiots for 80 years. That's the problem. They think massacring a 1000+ innocent people and kidnapping hundreds of others is a great idea.

Yeah, well, that was a terrible idea and they are paying the consequences

Israelis aren't wonderful, but Palestinians are literally the dumbest people on the planet. They chose this.

How are Palestinians dumber? Bibi literally funds Hamas while elderly Holocaust survivors barely have enough to eat in Israel. That’s smart ?

Do you think Palestinians would ever support Ben Gvir or the right wing Kahanists/extremists and give them money to create settlements in the West Bank? They wouldn’t but Israel playing with fire until it got burned by Hamas

Your assumption is that Palestinians are docile idiots that got played by Netanyahu. And that Hamas is nothing more than a fabrication created by Israel.

Yeah, well, no.

Israelis made a terrible mistake electing this government. And they recognize that now. Netanyahu is polling at 4 percent presently. He'll be done once there are elections again. And there will be an investigation about the security failures that led to 10/7.

But Palestinians? Optimistically, this war ends when Sinwar is dead. Realistically, nothing ends until Palestinians choose some decent leaders. And they've shown no capacity to do so.

Israel has every right to destroy Hamas. Palestinians in Gaza chose war. It's brutal. It's unfair. But this is what Palestinians in Gaza chose for themselves. If you don't like the consequences, maybe don't invade and massacre and rape and kidnap a bunch of innocent people. And maybe choose better leaders. Every death is on the Palestinians in Gaza. They chose poorly - as they always seem to do.

Israel, because it's a democracy and notably nearly 25 percent Arab, will correct itself. But if Palestinians continue to choose Islamic extremists like Hamas or corrupt dinosaurs like the PA, well, things are going to continue to be a little hopeless. It's all up to the Palestinian people.

Easy to justify your pro-Israel views by calling Palestinians stupid but I doubt that they are any more stupid than you or me. All people want the same thing - safety, security, food, housing, jobs, a future for their children. They were offered bad deals - end of story.

If the Hamas citizens were intelligent, they would be celebrating the arrival of the IDF on their humanitarian mission and offering their support. Instead they continue to back Hamas and attach the brave men and women (heroes) of the IDF every day.

lol IDF can’t help killing their own damn hostages. Being Jewish and Israeli apparently isn’t enough to avoid the IDF’s killing spree. Why would anyone celebrate the arrival of these trigger happy schlemazlik? You’re funny.

I think you are turning a mistake into an argument.

But it wasn’t a mistake. It’s a reflection of their rules of engagement that allow the killing of half naked unarmed civilians waving a white flag. Their only mistake was not recognizing that these were Jewish half naked civilians.

Oh well. Their parents must be very proud.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maher with a dose of reality for the Hamas fangurls:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/bill-maher-urges-palestinians-not-believe-myth-from-river-to-sea-israel-going-nowhere

Israel is free to do whatever it damn wants which seems to be to kill as many Palestinians as possible but in that case Jewish people should stop acting shocked when the rest of the world views Israel as a heartless, cold blooded nation with no soul

This is the most common sense thing I have read about what is going on...and a few years ago it would not all have had to been said, but progressives have distored common sense.

Okay. Two things.

1. It is illogical to say "bad things happen and people get moved all the time" but conclude this with "Israel is here to stay". If things change and people move, they can change for Israel too.

2. "Everyone comes to an accommodation" not by hugs and kisses, but through restoration of rights. There is a reason Jews can reclaim stolen and compensated property in many places in Europe - because people acknowledged that what happened to them was unjust. They weren't told to just get over it. Israel restores pre-1948 property to Jews who can prove ownership. Not to Arabs, mind you. Never to Arabs. You come to an accommodation when the party that wronged you acknowledges the wrong and makes an effort to compensate for the wrong. "Get over it" is not an accommodation.

3. I find it terribly ironic when people parrot the line of "Palestinians were offered their own state on three different occasions!" but you press them for details and turns out they don't know crap about what was actually offered.

DP.

I know exactly what was offered on each occasion and think that the following is inarguably true:

1. The Palestinians will not get a better deal in the future than what they’ve previously been offered.

2. The Palestinian people would be FAR better off today had they accepted any of the previous offers.

By any measure of real world impact, the Palestinian leadership has chosen poorly.

Yes they have.

During decolonization, they were given a very nice state that stretched from the border with Lebanon to the Negev. Hills. Forests, a good coastline on the Mediterranean. Towns like Nazareth and Hebron. Olive groves. But they chose war instead.

In 1993, with the Oslo Accords, they were given all of Gaza and 97 percent of the West Bank. Israel would have compensated the remaining 3 percent with their own lands. All the West Bank settlers would have been long gone by now.

Instead, Palestinians chose intifada.

I don't mean this unkindly, but Palestinians seem to be incapable of having effective leadership. They choose Hamas. They choose Islamic Jihad. They choose the Palestinian Authority, one of the most corrupt parties in the world. Back on the day, the chose the PLO - murdering Olympic athletes, hijacking airplanes, causing a civil war in Lebanon, assassinating Prime Ministers in Jordan, supporting the invasion of Kuwait.

I mean, what is there to say. If they had chosen a Gandhi or a MLK, they would have had a state for a long time now. But they don't. They always choose terrorism, violence, corruption, fanaticism. How do you work with this?

Serious question: How do you keep a straight face pretending that someone like Bibi would have EVER allowed the establishment of a Palestinian state of any kind over the past 27 years? Seriously, how do you do it?

i think Netanyahu and Likud are terrible.

Israelis are genuinely stupid for going with this. There are a lot of extremists in Israel. I mean they murdered Yitzhak Rabin for goodness sake. Israelis are not ipso facto wonderful people.

But Palestinians are dumber

They've had numerous chances for a good, independent state. And they've rejected all of them.

I mean, what is there to do? Who the hell do you even negotiate with?

Palestinians have been idiots for 80 years. That's the problem. They think massacring a 1000+ innocent people and kidnapping hundreds of others is a great idea.

Yeah, well, that was a terrible idea and they are paying the consequences

Israelis aren't wonderful, but Palestinians are literally the dumbest people on the planet. They chose this.

How are Palestinians dumber? Bibi literally funds Hamas while elderly Holocaust survivors barely have enough to eat in Israel. That’s smart ?

Do you think Palestinians would ever support Ben Gvir or the right wing Kahanists/extremists and give them money to create settlements in the West Bank? They wouldn’t but Israel playing with fire until it got burned by Hamas

Your assumption is that Palestinians are docile idiots that got played by Netanyahu. And that Hamas is nothing more than a fabrication created by Israel.

Yeah, well, no.

Israelis made a terrible mistake electing this government. And they recognize that now. Netanyahu is polling at 4 percent presently. He'll be done once there are elections again. And there will be an investigation about the security failures that led to 10/7.

But Palestinians? Optimistically, this war ends when Sinwar is dead. Realistically, nothing ends until Palestinians choose some decent leaders. And they've shown no capacity to do so.

Israel has every right to destroy Hamas. Palestinians in Gaza chose war. It's brutal. It's unfair. But this is what Palestinians in Gaza chose for themselves. If you don't like the consequences, maybe don't invade and massacre and rape and kidnap a bunch of innocent people. And maybe choose better leaders. Every death is on the Palestinians in Gaza. They chose poorly - as they always seem to do.

Israel, because it's a democracy and notably nearly 25 percent Arab, will correct itself. But if Palestinians continue to choose Islamic extremists like Hamas or corrupt dinosaurs like the PA, well, things are going to continue to be a little hopeless. It's all up to the Palestinian people.

Easy to justify your pro-Israel views by calling Palestinians stupid but I doubt that they are any more stupid than you or me. All people want the same thing - safety, security, food, housing, jobs, a future for their children. They were offered bad deals - end of story.

DP.

"Bad" deal + peace > no deal & 80 years of conflict and terrorism.

They chose violence. End of story.

Wow
Do you really believe that one side is lily white?

Not at all. Israel deserves plenty of criticism, and has made the situation worse on many occasions.

But the Palestinians have had opportunities for peace and autonomy and have rejected every one.

That’s the single most important cause of the conflict, starting in 1947.

Everything that has happened since is a consequence of that awful and tragic choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maher with a dose of reality for the Hamas fangurls:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/bill-maher-urges-palestinians-not-believe-myth-from-river-to-sea-israel-going-nowhere

Israel is free to do whatever it damn wants which seems to be to kill as many Palestinians as possible but in that case Jewish people should stop acting shocked when the rest of the world views Israel as a heartless, cold blooded nation with no soul

This is the most common sense thing I have read about what is going on...and a few years ago it would not all have had to been said, but progressives have distored common sense.

Okay. Two things.

1. It is illogical to say "bad things happen and people get moved all the time" but conclude this with "Israel is here to stay". If things change and people move, they can change for Israel too.

2. "Everyone comes to an accommodation" not by hugs and kisses, but through restoration of rights. There is a reason Jews can reclaim stolen and compensated property in many places in Europe - because people acknowledged that what happened to them was unjust. They weren't told to just get over it. Israel restores pre-1948 property to Jews who can prove ownership. Not to Arabs, mind you. Never to Arabs. You come to an accommodation when the party that wronged you acknowledges the wrong and makes an effort to compensate for the wrong. "Get over it" is not an accommodation.

3. I find it terribly ironic when people parrot the line of "Palestinians were offered their own state on three different occasions!" but you press them for details and turns out they don't know crap about what was actually offered.

DP.

I know exactly what was offered on each occasion and think that the following is inarguably true:

1. The Palestinians will not get a better deal in the future than what they’ve previously been offered.

2. The Palestinian people would be FAR better off today had they accepted any of the previous offers.

By any measure of real world impact, the Palestinian leadership has chosen poorly.

Yes they have.

During decolonization, they were given a very nice state that stretched from the border with Lebanon to the Negev. Hills. Forests, a good coastline on the Mediterranean. Towns like Nazareth and Hebron. Olive groves. But they chose war instead.

In 1993, with the Oslo Accords, they were given all of Gaza and 97 percent of the West Bank. Israel would have compensated the remaining 3 percent with their own lands. All the West Bank settlers would have been long gone by now.

Instead, Palestinians chose intifada.

I don't mean this unkindly, but Palestinians seem to be incapable of having effective leadership. They choose Hamas. They choose Islamic Jihad. They choose the Palestinian Authority, one of the most corrupt parties in the world. Back on the day, the chose the PLO - murdering Olympic athletes, hijacking airplanes, causing a civil war in Lebanon, assassinating Prime Ministers in Jordan, supporting the invasion of Kuwait.

I mean, what is there to say. If they had chosen a Gandhi or a MLK, they would have had a state for a long time now. But they don't. They always choose terrorism, violence, corruption, fanaticism. How do you work with this?

Serious question: How do you keep a straight face pretending that someone like Bibi would have EVER allowed the establishment of a Palestinian state of any kind over the past 27 years? Seriously, how do you do it?

i think Netanyahu and Likud are terrible.

Israelis are genuinely stupid for going with this. There are a lot of extremists in Israel. I mean they murdered Yitzhak Rabin for goodness sake. Israelis are not ipso facto wonderful people.

But Palestinians are dumber

They've had numerous chances for a good, independent state. And they've rejected all of them.

I mean, what is there to do? Who the hell do you even negotiate with?

Palestinians have been idiots for 80 years. That's the problem. They think massacring a 1000+ innocent people and kidnapping hundreds of others is a great idea.

Yeah, well, that was a terrible idea and they are paying the consequences

Israelis aren't wonderful, but Palestinians are literally the dumbest people on the planet. They chose this.

How are Palestinians dumber? Bibi literally funds Hamas while elderly Holocaust survivors barely have enough to eat in Israel. That’s smart ?

Do you think Palestinians would ever support Ben Gvir or the right wing Kahanists/extremists and give them money to create settlements in the West Bank? They wouldn’t but Israel playing with fire until it got burned by Hamas

Your assumption is that Palestinians are docile idiots that got played by Netanyahu. And that Hamas is nothing more than a fabrication created by Israel.

Yeah, well, no.

Israelis made a terrible mistake electing this government. And they recognize that now. Netanyahu is polling at 4 percent presently. He'll be done once there are elections again. And there will be an investigation about the security failures that led to 10/7.

But Palestinians? Optimistically, this war ends when Sinwar is dead. Realistically, nothing ends until Palestinians choose some decent leaders. And they've shown no capacity to do so.

Israel has every right to destroy Hamas. Palestinians in Gaza chose war. It's brutal. It's unfair. But this is what Palestinians in Gaza chose for themselves. If you don't like the consequences, maybe don't invade and massacre and rape and kidnap a bunch of innocent people. And maybe choose better leaders. Every death is on the Palestinians in Gaza. They chose poorly - as they always seem to do.

Israel, because it's a democracy and notably nearly 25 percent Arab, will correct itself. But if Palestinians continue to choose Islamic extremists like Hamas or corrupt dinosaurs like the PA, well, things are going to continue to be a little hopeless. It's all up to the Palestinian people.

Easy to justify your pro-Israel views by calling Palestinians stupid but I doubt that they are any more stupid than you or me. All people want the same thing - safety, security, food, housing, jobs, a future for their children. They were offered bad deals - end of story.

DP.

"Bad" deal + peace > no deal & 80 years of conflict and terrorism.

They chose violence. End of story.

lol yes these settlements just built themselves, why should the Arabs be unhappy?

Sorry, do you know the actual history of the the region?

Settlements are awful, but are not a root cause of the conflict.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maher with a dose of reality for the Hamas fangurls:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/bill-maher-urges-palestinians-not-believe-myth-from-river-to-sea-israel-going-nowhere

Israel is free to do whatever it damn wants which seems to be to kill as many Palestinians as possible but in that case Jewish people should stop acting shocked when the rest of the world views Israel as a heartless, cold blooded nation with no soul

This is the most common sense thing I have read about what is going on...and a few years ago it would not all have had to been said, but progressives have distored common sense.

Okay. Two things.

1. It is illogical to say "bad things happen and people get moved all the time" but conclude this with "Israel is here to stay". If things change and people move, they can change for Israel too.

2. "Everyone comes to an accommodation" not by hugs and kisses, but through restoration of rights. There is a reason Jews can reclaim stolen and compensated property in many places in Europe - because people acknowledged that what happened to them was unjust. They weren't told to just get over it. Israel restores pre-1948 property to Jews who can prove ownership. Not to Arabs, mind you. Never to Arabs. You come to an accommodation when the party that wronged you acknowledges the wrong and makes an effort to compensate for the wrong. "Get over it" is not an accommodation.

3. I find it terribly ironic when people parrot the line of "Palestinians were offered their own state on three different occasions!" but you press them for details and turns out they don't know crap about what was actually offered.

DP.

I know exactly what was offered on each occasion and think that the following is inarguably true:

1. The Palestinians will not get a better deal in the future than what they’ve previously been offered.

2. The Palestinian people would be FAR better off today had they accepted any of the previous offers.

By any measure of real world impact, the Palestinian leadership has chosen poorly.

Yes they have.

During decolonization, they were given a very nice state that stretched from the border with Lebanon to the Negev. Hills. Forests, a good coastline on the Mediterranean. Towns like Nazareth and Hebron. Olive groves. But they chose war instead.

In 1993, with the Oslo Accords, they were given all of Gaza and 97 percent of the West Bank. Israel would have compensated the remaining 3 percent with their own lands. All the West Bank settlers would have been long gone by now.

Instead, Palestinians chose intifada.

I don't mean this unkindly, but Palestinians seem to be incapable of having effective leadership. They choose Hamas. They choose Islamic Jihad. They choose the Palestinian Authority, one of the most corrupt parties in the world. Back on the day, the chose the PLO - murdering Olympic athletes, hijacking airplanes, causing a civil war in Lebanon, assassinating Prime Ministers in Jordan, supporting the invasion of Kuwait.

I mean, what is there to say. If they had chosen a Gandhi or a MLK, they would have had a state for a long time now. But they don't. They always choose terrorism, violence, corruption, fanaticism. How do you work with this?

Serious question: How do you keep a straight face pretending that someone like Bibi would have EVER allowed the establishment of a Palestinian state of any kind over the past 27 years? Seriously, how do you do it?

i think Netanyahu and Likud are terrible.

Israelis are genuinely stupid for going with this. There are a lot of extremists in Israel. I mean they murdered Yitzhak Rabin for goodness sake. Israelis are not ipso facto wonderful people.

But Palestinians are dumber

They've had numerous chances for a good, independent state. And they've rejected all of them.

I mean, what is there to do? Who the hell do you even negotiate with?

Palestinians have been idiots for 80 years. That's the problem. They think massacring a 1000+ innocent people and kidnapping hundreds of others is a great idea.

Yeah, well, that was a terrible idea and they are paying the consequences

Israelis aren't wonderful, but Palestinians are literally the dumbest people on the planet. They chose this.

How are Palestinians dumber? Bibi literally funds Hamas while elderly Holocaust survivors barely have enough to eat in Israel. That’s smart ?

Do you think Palestinians would ever support Ben Gvir or the right wing Kahanists/extremists and give them money to create settlements in the West Bank? They wouldn’t but Israel playing with fire until it got burned by Hamas

Your assumption is that Palestinians are docile idiots that got played by Netanyahu. And that Hamas is nothing more than a fabrication created by Israel.

Yeah, well, no.

Israelis made a terrible mistake electing this government. And they recognize that now. Netanyahu is polling at 4 percent presently. He'll be done once there are elections again. And there will be an investigation about the security failures that led to 10/7.

But Palestinians? Optimistically, this war ends when Sinwar is dead. Realistically, nothing ends until Palestinians choose some decent leaders. And they've shown no capacity to do so.

Israel has every right to destroy Hamas. Palestinians in Gaza chose war. It's brutal. It's unfair. But this is what Palestinians in Gaza chose for themselves. If you don't like the consequences, maybe don't invade and massacre and rape and kidnap a bunch of innocent people. And maybe choose better leaders. Every death is on the Palestinians in Gaza. They chose poorly - as they always seem to do.

Israel, because it's a democracy and notably nearly 25 percent Arab, will correct itself. But if Palestinians continue to choose Islamic extremists like Hamas or corrupt dinosaurs like the PA, well, things are going to continue to be a little hopeless. It's all up to the Palestinian people.

Easy to justify your pro-Israel views by calling Palestinians stupid but I doubt that they are any more stupid than you or me. All people want the same thing - safety, security, food, housing, jobs, a future for their children. They were offered bad deals - end of story.

DP.

"Bad" deal + peace > no deal & 80 years of conflict and terrorism.

They chose violence. End of story.

Wow
Do you really believe that one side is lily white?

Not at all. Israel deserves plenty of criticism, and has made the situation worse on many occasions.

But the Palestinians have had opportunities for peace and autonomy and have rejected every one.

That’s the single most important cause of the conflict, starting in 1947.

Everything that has happened since is a consequence of that awful and tragic choice.

Crazy settlers up and built their IDF protected shacks bc of 1947? Yeah no. Read some Zhabotinsky.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maher with a dose of reality for the Hamas fangurls:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/bill-maher-urges-palestinians-not-believe-myth-from-river-to-sea-israel-going-nowhere

Israel is free to do whatever it damn wants which seems to be to kill as many Palestinians as possible but in that case Jewish people should stop acting shocked when the rest of the world views Israel as a heartless, cold blooded nation with no soul

This is the most common sense thing I have read about what is going on...and a few years ago it would not all have had to been said, but progressives have distored common sense.

Okay. Two things.

1. It is illogical to say "bad things happen and people get moved all the time" but conclude this with "Israel is here to stay". If things change and people move, they can change for Israel too.

2. "Everyone comes to an accommodation" not by hugs and kisses, but through restoration of rights. There is a reason Jews can reclaim stolen and compensated property in many places in Europe - because people acknowledged that what happened to them was unjust. They weren't told to just get over it. Israel restores pre-1948 property to Jews who can prove ownership. Not to Arabs, mind you. Never to Arabs. You come to an accommodation when the party that wronged you acknowledges the wrong and makes an effort to compensate for the wrong. "Get over it" is not an accommodation.

3. I find it terribly ironic when people parrot the line of "Palestinians were offered their own state on three different occasions!" but you press them for details and turns out they don't know crap about what was actually offered.

DP.

I know exactly what was offered on each occasion and think that the following is inarguably true:

1. The Palestinians will not get a better deal in the future than what they’ve previously been offered.

2. The Palestinian people would be FAR better off today had they accepted any of the previous offers.

By any measure of real world impact, the Palestinian leadership has chosen poorly.

Yes they have.

During decolonization, they were given a very nice state that stretched from the border with Lebanon to the Negev. Hills. Forests, a good coastline on the Mediterranean. Towns like Nazareth and Hebron. Olive groves. But they chose war instead.

In 1993, with the Oslo Accords, they were given all of Gaza and 97 percent of the West Bank. Israel would have compensated the remaining 3 percent with their own lands. All the West Bank settlers would have been long gone by now.

Instead, Palestinians chose intifada.

I don't mean this unkindly, but Palestinians seem to be incapable of having effective leadership. They choose Hamas. They choose Islamic Jihad. They choose the Palestinian Authority, one of the most corrupt parties in the world. Back on the day, the chose the PLO - murdering Olympic athletes, hijacking airplanes, causing a civil war in Lebanon, assassinating Prime Ministers in Jordan, supporting the invasion of Kuwait.

I mean, what is there to say. If they had chosen a Gandhi or a MLK, they would have had a state for a long time now. But they don't. They always choose terrorism, violence, corruption, fanaticism. How do you work with this?

Serious question: How do you keep a straight face pretending that someone like Bibi would have EVER allowed the establishment of a Palestinian state of any kind over the past 27 years? Seriously, how do you do it?

i think Netanyahu and Likud are terrible.

Israelis are genuinely stupid for going with this. There are a lot of extremists in Israel. I mean they murdered Yitzhak Rabin for goodness sake. Israelis are not ipso facto wonderful people.

But Palestinians are dumber

They've had numerous chances for a good, independent state. And they've rejected all of them.

I mean, what is there to do? Who the hell do you even negotiate with?

Palestinians have been idiots for 80 years. That's the problem. They think massacring a 1000+ innocent people and kidnapping hundreds of others is a great idea.

Yeah, well, that was a terrible idea and they are paying the consequences

Israelis aren't wonderful, but Palestinians are literally the dumbest people on the planet. They chose this.

How are Palestinians dumber? Bibi literally funds Hamas while elderly Holocaust survivors barely have enough to eat in Israel. That’s smart ?

Do you think Palestinians would ever support Ben Gvir or the right wing Kahanists/extremists and give them money to create settlements in the West Bank? They wouldn’t but Israel playing with fire until it got burned by Hamas

Your assumption is that Palestinians are docile idiots that got played by Netanyahu. And that Hamas is nothing more than a fabrication created by Israel.

Yeah, well, no.

Israelis made a terrible mistake electing this government. And they recognize that now. Netanyahu is polling at 4 percent presently. He'll be done once there are elections again. And there will be an investigation about the security failures that led to 10/7.

But Palestinians? Optimistically, this war ends when Sinwar is dead. Realistically, nothing ends until Palestinians choose some decent leaders. And they've shown no capacity to do so.

Israel has every right to destroy Hamas. Palestinians in Gaza chose war. It's brutal. It's unfair. But this is what Palestinians in Gaza chose for themselves. If you don't like the consequences, maybe don't invade and massacre and rape and kidnap a bunch of innocent people. And maybe choose better leaders. Every death is on the Palestinians in Gaza. They chose poorly - as they always seem to do.

Israel, because it's a democracy and notably nearly 25 percent Arab, will correct itself. But if Palestinians continue to choose Islamic extremists like Hamas or corrupt dinosaurs like the PA, well, things are going to continue to be a little hopeless. It's all up to the Palestinian people.

Easy to justify your pro-Israel views by calling Palestinians stupid but I doubt that they are any more stupid than you or me. All people want the same thing - safety, security, food, housing, jobs, a future for their children. They were offered bad deals - end of story.

DP.

"Bad" deal + peace > no deal & 80 years of conflict and terrorism.

They chose violence. End of story.

Wow
Do you really believe that one side is lily white?

Not at all. Israel deserves plenty of criticism, and has made the situation worse on many occasions.

But the Palestinians have had opportunities for peace and autonomy and have rejected every one.

That’s the single most important cause of the conflict, starting in 1947.

Everything that has happened since is a consequence of that awful and tragic choice.

Crazy settlers up and built their IDF protected shacks bc of 1947? Yeah no. Read some Zhabotinsky.

There likely wouldn’t be settlers if 2 autonomous states had been established in ‘47.

And if extreme Zionists had tried to expand into Palestinian territory, they would have (rightly) been treated as invaders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maher with a dose of reality for the Hamas fangurls:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/bill-maher-urges-palestinians-not-believe-myth-from-river-to-sea-israel-going-nowhere

Israel is free to do whatever it damn wants which seems to be to kill as many Palestinians as possible but in that case Jewish people should stop acting shocked when the rest of the world views Israel as a heartless, cold blooded nation with no soul

This is the most common sense thing I have read about what is going on...and a few years ago it would not all have had to been said, but progressives have distored common sense.

Okay. Two things.

1. It is illogical to say "bad things happen and people get moved all the time" but conclude this with "Israel is here to stay". If things change and people move, they can change for Israel too.

2. "Everyone comes to an accommodation" not by hugs and kisses, but through restoration of rights. There is a reason Jews can reclaim stolen and compensated property in many places in Europe - because people acknowledged that what happened to them was unjust. They weren't told to just get over it. Israel restores pre-1948 property to Jews who can prove ownership. Not to Arabs, mind you. Never to Arabs. You come to an accommodation when the party that wronged you acknowledges the wrong and makes an effort to compensate for the wrong. "Get over it" is not an accommodation.

3. I find it terribly ironic when people parrot the line of "Palestinians were offered their own state on three different occasions!" but you press them for details and turns out they don't know crap about what was actually offered.

DP.

I know exactly what was offered on each occasion and think that the following is inarguably true:

1. The Palestinians will not get a better deal in the future than what they’ve previously been offered.

2. The Palestinian people would be FAR better off today had they accepted any of the previous offers.

By any measure of real world impact, the Palestinian leadership has chosen poorly.

Yes they have.

During decolonization, they were given a very nice state that stretched from the border with Lebanon to the Negev. Hills. Forests, a good coastline on the Mediterranean. Towns like Nazareth and Hebron. Olive groves. But they chose war instead.

In 1993, with the Oslo Accords, they were given all of Gaza and 97 percent of the West Bank. Israel would have compensated the remaining 3 percent with their own lands. All the West Bank settlers would have been long gone by now.

Instead, Palestinians chose intifada.

I don't mean this unkindly, but Palestinians seem to be incapable of having effective leadership. They choose Hamas. They choose Islamic Jihad. They choose the Palestinian Authority, one of the most corrupt parties in the world. Back on the day, the chose the PLO - murdering Olympic athletes, hijacking airplanes, causing a civil war in Lebanon, assassinating Prime Ministers in Jordan, supporting the invasion of Kuwait.

I mean, what is there to say. If they had chosen a Gandhi or a MLK, they would have had a state for a long time now. But they don't. They always choose terrorism, violence, corruption, fanaticism. How do you work with this?

Serious question: How do you keep a straight face pretending that someone like Bibi would have EVER allowed the establishment of a Palestinian state of any kind over the past 27 years? Seriously, how do you do it?

i think Netanyahu and Likud are terrible.

Israelis are genuinely stupid for going with this. There are a lot of extremists in Israel. I mean they murdered Yitzhak Rabin for goodness sake. Israelis are not ipso facto wonderful people.

But Palestinians are dumber

They've had numerous chances for a good, independent state. And they've rejected all of them.

I mean, what is there to do? Who the hell do you even negotiate with?

Palestinians have been idiots for 80 years. That's the problem. They think massacring a 1000+ innocent people and kidnapping hundreds of others is a great idea.

Yeah, well, that was a terrible idea and they are paying the consequences

Israelis aren't wonderful, but Palestinians are literally the dumbest people on the planet. They chose this.

How are Palestinians dumber? Bibi literally funds Hamas while elderly Holocaust survivors barely have enough to eat in Israel. That’s smart ?

Do you think Palestinians would ever support Ben Gvir or the right wing Kahanists/extremists and give them money to create settlements in the West Bank? They wouldn’t but Israel playing with fire until it got burned by Hamas

Your assumption is that Palestinians are docile idiots that got played by Netanyahu. And that Hamas is nothing more than a fabrication created by Israel.

Yeah, well, no.

Israelis made a terrible mistake electing this government. And they recognize that now. Netanyahu is polling at 4 percent presently. He'll be done once there are elections again. And there will be an investigation about the security failures that led to 10/7.

But Palestinians? Optimistically, this war ends when Sinwar is dead. Realistically, nothing ends until Palestinians choose some decent leaders. And they've shown no capacity to do so.

Israel has every right to destroy Hamas. Palestinians in Gaza chose war. It's brutal. It's unfair. But this is what Palestinians in Gaza chose for themselves. If you don't like the consequences, maybe don't invade and massacre and rape and kidnap a bunch of innocent people. And maybe choose better leaders. Every death is on the Palestinians in Gaza. They chose poorly - as they always seem to do.

Israel, because it's a democracy and notably nearly 25 percent Arab, will correct itself. But if Palestinians continue to choose Islamic extremists like Hamas or corrupt dinosaurs like the PA, well, things are going to continue to be a little hopeless. It's all up to the Palestinian people.

Easy to justify your pro-Israel views by calling Palestinians stupid but I doubt that they are any more stupid than you or me. All people want the same thing - safety, security, food, housing, jobs, a future for their children. They were offered bad deals - end of story.

DP.

"Bad" deal + peace > no deal & 80 years of conflict and terrorism.

They chose violence. End of story.

lol yes these settlements just built themselves, why should the Arabs be unhappy?

Sorry, do you know the actual history of the the region?

Settlements are awful, but are not a root cause of the conflict.

It is the root cause of the conflict. Russian Jewish settlements were created long before Israel as early as the 1830s in Ottoman Palestine and they were known for not being nice or friendly neighbors either. They self segregated and Didn’t communicate with the Arabs , do business with them, or rent or buy from them, and the first recorded murder/crime in 1850s was a Jewish man killing a Palestinian.

It aroused suspicion as to why these settlers were so insular and self discriminatory compared to everyone else there (Armenian, Palestinian, Turk, Brit, etc) who were pro integrated neighborhoods

[Anonymous]

Palestinians were dealing with Jewish settlements for a very long time . The idea that Israelis just came there in 1945 and Palestinians threw a fit is not correct.

As early as 1830, Jewish people were creating settlements in Ottoman Palestine to be safe but they were cantankerous to their hosts from the start

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What is cruel about this? Hamas will no longer be there, so why not use this prime land for homes for Israeli families, particularly Israeli families who lost loved ones to the hands of Hamas over the years?

Palestinians are not Hamas and Israel is not entitled to their land, no matter how they feel. Lets return the land to the relatives of the 20,000 Palestinians Israel has slaughtered in the past few weeks instead.

Palestinians are colonizers.

That is just...fractally wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maher with a dose of reality for the Hamas fangurls:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/bill-maher-urges-palestinians-not-believe-myth-from-river-to-sea-israel-going-nowhere

Israel is free to do whatever it damn wants which seems to be to kill as many Palestinians as possible but in that case Jewish people should stop acting shocked when the rest of the world views Israel as a heartless, cold blooded nation with no soul

This is the most common sense thing I have read about what is going on...and a few years ago it would not all have had to been said, but progressives have distored common sense.

Okay. Two things.

1. It is illogical to say "bad things happen and people get moved all the time" but conclude this with "Israel is here to stay". If things change and people move, they can change for Israel too.

2. "Everyone comes to an accommodation" not by hugs and kisses, but through restoration of rights. There is a reason Jews can reclaim stolen and compensated property in many places in Europe - because people acknowledged that what happened to them was unjust. They weren't told to just get over it. Israel restores pre-1948 property to Jews who can prove ownership. Not to Arabs, mind you. Never to Arabs. You come to an accommodation when the party that wronged you acknowledges the wrong and makes an effort to compensate for the wrong. "Get over it" is not an accommodation.

3. I find it terribly ironic when people parrot the line of "Palestinians were offered their own state on three different occasions!" but you press them for details and turns out they don't know crap about what was actually offered.

DP.

I know exactly what was offered on each occasion and think that the following is inarguably true:

1. The Palestinians will not get a better deal in the future than what they’ve previously been offered.

2. The Palestinian people would be FAR better off today had they accepted any of the previous offers.

By any measure of real world impact, the Palestinian leadership has chosen poorly.

Yes they have.

During decolonization, they were given a very nice state that stretched from the border with Lebanon to the Negev. Hills. Forests, a good coastline on the Mediterranean. Towns like Nazareth and Hebron. Olive groves. But they chose war instead.

In 1993, with the Oslo Accords, they were given all of Gaza and 97 percent of the West Bank. Israel would have compensated the remaining 3 percent with their own lands. All the West Bank settlers would have been long gone by now.

Instead, Palestinians chose intifada.

I don't mean this unkindly, but Palestinians seem to be incapable of having effective leadership. They choose Hamas. They choose Islamic Jihad. They choose the Palestinian Authority, one of the most corrupt parties in the world. Back on the day, the chose the PLO - murdering Olympic athletes, hijacking airplanes, causing a civil war in Lebanon, assassinating Prime Ministers in Jordan, supporting the invasion of Kuwait.

I mean, what is there to say. If they had chosen a Gandhi or a MLK, they would have had a state for a long time now. But they don't. They always choose terrorism, violence, corruption, fanaticism. How do you work with this?

Serious question: How do you keep a straight face pretending that someone like Bibi would have EVER allowed the establishment of a Palestinian state of any kind over the past 27 years? Seriously, how do you do it?

i think Netanyahu and Likud are terrible.

Israelis are genuinely stupid for going with this. There are a lot of extremists in Israel. I mean they murdered Yitzhak Rabin for goodness sake. Israelis are not ipso facto wonderful people.

But Palestinians are dumber

They've had numerous chances for a good, independent state. And they've rejected all of them.

I mean, what is there to do? Who the hell do you even negotiate with?

Palestinians have been idiots for 80 years. That's the problem. They think massacring a 1000+ innocent people and kidnapping hundreds of others is a great idea.

Yeah, well, that was a terrible idea and they are paying the consequences

Israelis aren't wonderful, but Palestinians are literally the dumbest people on the planet. They chose this.

How are Palestinians dumber? Bibi literally funds Hamas while elderly Holocaust survivors barely have enough to eat in Israel. That’s smart ?

Do you think Palestinians would ever support Ben Gvir or the right wing Kahanists/extremists and give them money to create settlements in the West Bank? They wouldn’t but Israel playing with fire until it got burned by Hamas

Your assumption is that Palestinians are docile idiots that got played by Netanyahu. And that Hamas is nothing more than a fabrication created by Israel.

Yeah, well, no.

Israelis made a terrible mistake electing this government. And they recognize that now. Netanyahu is polling at 4 percent presently. He'll be done once there are elections again. And there will be an investigation about the security failures that led to 10/7.

But Palestinians? Optimistically, this war ends when Sinwar is dead. Realistically, nothing ends until Palestinians choose some decent leaders. And they've shown no capacity to do so.

Israel has every right to destroy Hamas. Palestinians in Gaza chose war. It's brutal. It's unfair. But this is what Palestinians in Gaza chose for themselves. If you don't like the consequences, maybe don't invade and massacre and rape and kidnap a bunch of innocent people. And maybe choose better leaders. Every death is on the Palestinians in Gaza. They chose poorly - as they always seem to do.

Israel, because it's a democracy and notably nearly 25 percent Arab, will correct itself. But if Palestinians continue to choose Islamic extremists like Hamas or corrupt dinosaurs like the PA, well, things are going to continue to be a little hopeless. It's all up to the Palestinian people.

Easy to justify your pro-Israel views by calling Palestinians stupid but I doubt that they are any more stupid than you or me. All people want the same thing - safety, security, food, housing, jobs, a future for their children. They were offered bad deals - end of story.

They didn't love their children enough to choose peace, apparently.

I hate what is happening in Gaza - but come on. Palestinians are not babies who never had a choice in their whole lives. Don't belittle them by making them that passive and incompetent. They made choices - and those choices have consequences. I'm not excusing everything Israel did - but do you think for one second that any other country would have done things differently than what Israel did after 10/7? If so please point me toward one example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maher with a dose of reality for the Hamas fangurls:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/bill-maher-urges-palestinians-not-believe-myth-from-river-to-sea-israel-going-nowhere

Israel is free to do whatever it damn wants which seems to be to kill as many Palestinians as possible but in that case Jewish people should stop acting shocked when the rest of the world views Israel as a heartless, cold blooded nation with no soul

This is the most common sense thing I have read about what is going on...and a few years ago it would not all have had to been said, but progressives have distored common sense.

Okay. Two things.

1. It is illogical to say "bad things happen and people get moved all the time" but conclude this with "Israel is here to stay". If things change and people move, they can change for Israel too.

2. "Everyone comes to an accommodation" not by hugs and kisses, but through restoration of rights. There is a reason Jews can reclaim stolen and compensated property in many places in Europe - because people acknowledged that what happened to them was unjust. They weren't told to just get over it. Israel restores pre-1948 property to Jews who can prove ownership. Not to Arabs, mind you. Never to Arabs. You come to an accommodation when the party that wronged you acknowledges the wrong and makes an effort to compensate for the wrong. "Get over it" is not an accommodation.

3. I find it terribly ironic when people parrot the line of "Palestinians were offered their own state on three different occasions!" but you press them for details and turns out they don't know crap about what was actually offered.

DP.

I know exactly what was offered on each occasion and think that the following is inarguably true:

1. The Palestinians will not get a better deal in the future than what they’ve previously been offered.

2. The Palestinian people would be FAR better off today had they accepted any of the previous offers.

By any measure of real world impact, the Palestinian leadership has chosen poorly.

Yes they have.

During decolonization, they were given a very nice state that stretched from the border with Lebanon to the Negev. Hills. Forests, a good coastline on the Mediterranean. Towns like Nazareth and Hebron. Olive groves. But they chose war instead.

In 1993, with the Oslo Accords, they were given all of Gaza and 97 percent of the West Bank. Israel would have compensated the remaining 3 percent with their own lands. All the West Bank settlers would have been long gone by now.

Instead, Palestinians chose intifada.

I don't mean this unkindly, but Palestinians seem to be incapable of having effective leadership. They choose Hamas. They choose Islamic Jihad. They choose the Palestinian Authority, one of the most corrupt parties in the world. Back on the day, the chose the PLO - murdering Olympic athletes, hijacking airplanes, causing a civil war in Lebanon, assassinating Prime Ministers in Jordan, supporting the invasion of Kuwait.

I mean, what is there to say. If they had chosen a Gandhi or a MLK, they would have had a state for a long time now. But they don't. They always choose terrorism, violence, corruption, fanaticism. How do you work with this?

Serious question: How do you keep a straight face pretending that someone like Bibi would have EVER allowed the establishment of a Palestinian state of any kind over the past 27 years? Seriously, how do you do it?

i think Netanyahu and Likud are terrible.

Israelis are genuinely stupid for going with this. There are a lot of extremists in Israel. I mean they murdered Yitzhak Rabin for goodness sake. Israelis are not ipso facto wonderful people.

But Palestinians are dumber

They've had numerous chances for a good, independent state. And they've rejected all of them.

I mean, what is there to do? Who the hell do you even negotiate with?

Palestinians have been idiots for 80 years. That's the problem. They think massacring a 1000+ innocent people and kidnapping hundreds of others is a great idea.

Yeah, well, that was a terrible idea and they are paying the consequences

Israelis aren't wonderful, but Palestinians are literally the dumbest people on the planet. They chose this.

How are Palestinians dumber? Bibi literally funds Hamas while elderly Holocaust survivors barely have enough to eat in Israel. That’s smart ?

Do you think Palestinians would ever support Ben Gvir or the right wing Kahanists/extremists and give them money to create settlements in the West Bank? They wouldn’t but Israel playing with fire until it got burned by Hamas

Your assumption is that Palestinians are docile idiots that got played by Netanyahu. And that Hamas is nothing more than a fabrication created by Israel.

Yeah, well, no.

Israelis made a terrible mistake electing this government. And they recognize that now. Netanyahu is polling at 4 percent presently. He'll be done once there are elections again. And there will be an investigation about the security failures that led to 10/7.

But Palestinians? Optimistically, this war ends when Sinwar is dead. Realistically, nothing ends until Palestinians choose some decent leaders. And they've shown no capacity to do so.

Israel has every right to destroy Hamas. Palestinians in Gaza chose war. It's brutal. It's unfair. But this is what Palestinians in Gaza chose for themselves. If you don't like the consequences, maybe don't invade and massacre and rape and kidnap a bunch of innocent people. And maybe choose better leaders. Every death is on the Palestinians in Gaza. They chose poorly - as they always seem to do.

Israel, because it's a democracy and notably nearly 25 percent Arab, will correct itself. But if Palestinians continue to choose Islamic extremists like Hamas or corrupt dinosaurs like the PA, well, things are going to continue to be a little hopeless. It's all up to the Palestinian people.

Easy to justify your pro-Israel views by calling Palestinians stupid but I doubt that they are any more stupid than you or me. All people want the same thing - safety, security, food, housing, jobs, a future for their children. They were offered bad deals - end of story.

If the Hamas citizens were intelligent, they would be celebrating the arrival of the IDF on their humanitarian mission and offering their support. Instead they continue to back Hamas and attach the brave men and women (heroes) of the IDF every day.

lol IDF can’t help killing their own damn hostages. Being Jewish and Israeli apparently isn’t enough to avoid the IDF’s killing spree. Why would anyone celebrate the arrival of these trigger happy schlemazlik? You’re funny.

I think you are turning a mistake into an argument.

But it wasn’t a mistake. It’s a reflection of their rules of engagement that allow the killing of half naked unarmed civilians waving a white flag. Their only mistake was not recognizing that these were Jewish half naked civilians.

Oh well. Their parents must be very proud.

Trigger happy thugs who behave just like soldiers in the Congo when they get their hands on weapons that kill.

So much for all the Israeli propaganda about how much care they take to respect civilians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maher with a dose of reality for the Hamas fangurls:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/bill-maher-urges-palestinians-not-believe-myth-from-river-to-sea-israel-going-nowhere

Israel is free to do whatever it damn wants which seems to be to kill as many Palestinians as possible but in that case Jewish people should stop acting shocked when the rest of the world views Israel as a heartless, cold blooded nation with no soul

This is the most common sense thing I have read about what is going on...and a few years ago it would not all have had to been said, but progressives have distored common sense.

Okay. Two things.

1. It is illogical to say "bad things happen and people get moved all the time" but conclude this with "Israel is here to stay". If things change and people move, they can change for Israel too.

2. "Everyone comes to an accommodation" not by hugs and kisses, but through restoration of rights. There is a reason Jews can reclaim stolen and compensated property in many places in Europe - because people acknowledged that what happened to them was unjust. They weren't told to just get over it. Israel restores pre-1948 property to Jews who can prove ownership. Not to Arabs, mind you. Never to Arabs. You come to an accommodation when the party that wronged you acknowledges the wrong and makes an effort to compensate for the wrong. "Get over it" is not an accommodation.

3. I find it terribly ironic when people parrot the line of "Palestinians were offered their own state on three different occasions!" but you press them for details and turns out they don't know crap about what was actually offered.

DP.

I know exactly what was offered on each occasion and think that the following is inarguably true:

1. The Palestinians will not get a better deal in the future than what they’ve previously been offered.

2. The Palestinian people would be FAR better off today had they accepted any of the previous offers.

By any measure of real world impact, the Palestinian leadership has chosen poorly.

Yes they have.

During decolonization, they were given a very nice state that stretched from the border with Lebanon to the Negev. Hills. Forests, a good coastline on the Mediterranean. Towns like Nazareth and Hebron. Olive groves. But they chose war instead.

In 1993, with the Oslo Accords, they were given all of Gaza and 97 percent of the West Bank. Israel would have compensated the remaining 3 percent with their own lands. All the West Bank settlers would have been long gone by now.

Instead, Palestinians chose intifada.

I don't mean this unkindly, but Palestinians seem to be incapable of having effective leadership. They choose Hamas. They choose Islamic Jihad. They choose the Palestinian Authority, one of the most corrupt parties in the world. Back on the day, the chose the PLO - murdering Olympic athletes, hijacking airplanes, causing a civil war in Lebanon, assassinating Prime Ministers in Jordan, supporting the invasion of Kuwait.

I mean, what is there to say. If they had chosen a Gandhi or a MLK, they would have had a state for a long time now. But they don't. They always choose terrorism, violence, corruption, fanaticism. How do you work with this?

Serious question: How do you keep a straight face pretending that someone like Bibi would have EVER allowed the establishment of a Palestinian state of any kind over the past 27 years? Seriously, how do you do it?

i think Netanyahu and Likud are terrible.

Israelis are genuinely stupid for going with this. There are a lot of extremists in Israel. I mean they murdered Yitzhak Rabin for goodness sake. Israelis are not ipso facto wonderful people.

But Palestinians are dumber

They've had numerous chances for a good, independent state. And they've rejected all of them.

I mean, what is there to do? Who the hell do you even negotiate with?

Palestinians have been idiots for 80 years. That's the problem. They think massacring a 1000+ innocent people and kidnapping hundreds of others is a great idea.

Yeah, well, that was a terrible idea and they are paying the consequences

Israelis aren't wonderful, but Palestinians are literally the dumbest people on the planet. They chose this.

How are Palestinians dumber? Bibi literally funds Hamas while elderly Holocaust survivors barely have enough to eat in Israel. That’s smart ?

Do you think Palestinians would ever support Ben Gvir or the right wing Kahanists/extremists and give them money to create settlements in the West Bank? They wouldn’t but Israel playing with fire until it got burned by Hamas

Your assumption is that Palestinians are docile idiots that got played by Netanyahu. And that Hamas is nothing more than a fabrication created by Israel.

Yeah, well, no.

Israelis made a terrible mistake electing this government. And they recognize that now. Netanyahu is polling at 4 percent presently. He'll be done once there are elections again. And there will be an investigation about the security failures that led to 10/7.

But Palestinians? Optimistically, this war ends when Sinwar is dead. Realistically, nothing ends until Palestinians choose some decent leaders. And they've shown no capacity to do so.

Israel has every right to destroy Hamas. Palestinians in Gaza chose war. It's brutal. It's unfair. But this is what Palestinians in Gaza chose for themselves. If you don't like the consequences, maybe don't invade and massacre and rape and kidnap a bunch of innocent people. And maybe choose better leaders. Every death is on the Palestinians in Gaza. They chose poorly - as they always seem to do.

Israel, because it's a democracy and notably nearly 25 percent Arab, will correct itself. But if Palestinians continue to choose Islamic extremists like Hamas or corrupt dinosaurs like the PA, well, things are going to continue to be a little hopeless. It's all up to the Palestinian people.

Easy to justify your pro-Israel views by calling Palestinians stupid but I doubt that they are any more stupid than you or me. All people want the same thing - safety, security, food, housing, jobs, a future for their children. They were offered bad deals - end of story.

They didn't love their children enough to choose peace, apparently.

I hate what is happening in Gaza - but come on. Palestinians are not babies who never had a choice in their whole lives. Don't belittle them by making them that passive and incompetent. They made choices - and those choices have consequences. I'm not excusing everything Israel did - but do you think for one second that any other country would have done things differently than what Israel did after 10/7? If so please point me toward one example.

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Anonymous wrote:Maher with a dose of reality for the Hamas fangurls:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/bill-maher-urges-palestinians-not-believe-myth-from-river-to-sea-israel-going-nowhere

Israel is free to do whatever it damn wants which seems to be to kill as many Palestinians as possible but in that case Jewish people should stop acting shocked when the rest of the world views Israel as a heartless, cold blooded nation with no soul

This is the most common sense thing I have read about what is going on...and a few years ago it would not all have had to been said, but progressives have distored common sense.

Okay. Two things.

1. It is illogical to say "bad things happen and people get moved all the time" but conclude this with "Israel is here to stay". If things change and people move, they can change for Israel too.

2. "Everyone comes to an accommodation" not by hugs and kisses, but through restoration of rights. There is a reason Jews can reclaim stolen and compensated property in many places in Europe - because people acknowledged that what happened to them was unjust. They weren't told to just get over it. Israel restores pre-1948 property to Jews who can prove ownership. Not to Arabs, mind you. Never to Arabs. You come to an accommodation when the party that wronged you acknowledges the wrong and makes an effort to compensate for the wrong. "Get over it" is not an accommodation.

3. I find it terribly ironic when people parrot the line of "Palestinians were offered their own state on three different occasions!" but you press them for details and turns out they don't know crap about what was actually offered.

DP.

I know exactly what was offered on each occasion and think that the following is inarguably true:

1. The Palestinians will not get a better deal in the future than what they’ve previously been offered.

2. The Palestinian people would be FAR better off today had they accepted any of the previous offers.

By any measure of real world impact, the Palestinian leadership has chosen poorly.

Yes they have.

During decolonization, they were given a very nice state that stretched from the border with Lebanon to the Negev. Hills. Forests, a good coastline on the Mediterranean. Towns like Nazareth and Hebron. Olive groves. But they chose war instead.

In 1993, with the Oslo Accords, they were given all of Gaza and 97 percent of the West Bank. Israel would have compensated the remaining 3 percent with their own lands. All the West Bank settlers would have been long gone by now.

Instead, Palestinians chose intifada.

I don't mean this unkindly, but Palestinians seem to be incapable of having effective leadership. They choose Hamas. They choose Islamic Jihad. They choose the Palestinian Authority, one of the most corrupt parties in the world. Back on the day, the chose the PLO - murdering Olympic athletes, hijacking airplanes, causing a civil war in Lebanon, assassinating Prime Ministers in Jordan, supporting the invasion of Kuwait.

I mean, what is there to say. If they had chosen a Gandhi or a MLK, they would have had a state for a long time now. But they don't. They always choose terrorism, violence, corruption, fanaticism. How do you work with this?

Serious question: How do you keep a straight face pretending that someone like Bibi would have EVER allowed the establishment of a Palestinian state of any kind over the past 27 years? Seriously, how do you do it?

i think Netanyahu and Likud are terrible.

Israelis are genuinely stupid for going with this. There are a lot of extremists in Israel. I mean they murdered Yitzhak Rabin for goodness sake. Israelis are not ipso facto wonderful people.

But Palestinians are dumber

They've had numerous chances for a good, independent state. And they've rejected all of them.

I mean, what is there to do? Who the hell do you even negotiate with?

Palestinians have been idiots for 80 years. That's the problem. They think massacring a 1000+ innocent people and kidnapping hundreds of others is a great idea.

Yeah, well, that was a terrible idea and they are paying the consequences

Israelis aren't wonderful, but Palestinians are literally the dumbest people on the planet. They chose this.

How are Palestinians dumber? Bibi literally funds Hamas while elderly Holocaust survivors barely have enough to eat in Israel. That’s smart ?

Do you think Palestinians would ever support Ben Gvir or the right wing Kahanists/extremists and give them money to create settlements in the West Bank? They wouldn’t but Israel playing with fire until it got burned by Hamas

Your assumption is that Palestinians are docile idiots that got played by Netanyahu. And that Hamas is nothing more than a fabrication created by Israel.

Yeah, well, no.

Israelis made a terrible mistake electing this government. And they recognize that now. Netanyahu is polling at 4 percent presently. He'll be done once there are elections again. And there will be an investigation about the security failures that led to 10/7.

But Palestinians? Optimistically, this war ends when Sinwar is dead. Realistically, nothing ends until Palestinians choose some decent leaders. And they've shown no capacity to do so.

Israel has every right to destroy Hamas. Palestinians in Gaza chose war. It's brutal. It's unfair. But this is what Palestinians in Gaza chose for themselves. If you don't like the consequences, maybe don't invade and massacre and rape and kidnap a bunch of innocent people. And maybe choose better leaders. Every death is on the Palestinians in Gaza. They chose poorly - as they always seem to do.

Israel, because it's a democracy and notably nearly 25 percent Arab, will correct itself. But if Palestinians continue to choose Islamic extremists like Hamas or corrupt dinosaurs like the PA, well, things are going to continue to be a little hopeless. It's all up to the Palestinian people.

Easy to justify your pro-Israel views by calling Palestinians stupid but I doubt that they are any more stupid than you or me. All people want the same thing - safety, security, food, housing, jobs, a future for their children. They were offered bad deals - end of story.

They didn't love their children enough to choose peace, apparently.

I hate what is happening in Gaza - but come on. Palestinians are not babies who never had a choice in their whole lives. Don't belittle them by making them that passive and incompetent. They made choices - and those choices have consequences. I'm not excusing everything Israel did - but do you think for one second that any other country would have done things differently than what Israel did after 10/7? If so please point me toward one example.

You don’t hate what’s happening in Gaza. To the contrary you’re an apologist for it.

And, yes, in case you haven’t noticed many of those Palestinians killed by Israel in Gaza are babies and young children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Palestinians were dealing with Jewish settlements for a very long time . The idea that Israelis just came there in 1945 and Palestinians threw a fit is not correct.

As early as 1830, Jewish people were creating settlements in Ottoman Palestine to be safe but they were cantankerous to their hosts from the start

DP. To be clear, these immigrants/settlers purchased land from Palestinians.

They were very different from today’s West Bank settlers.