MCPS -- Twice Exceptional / 2E vs. Home School

[Anonymous]

I'm thinking this over and puzzling over what my question is.

We are considering MCPS public school for my child with learning differences. At his last evaluation, the psychologist mentioned he might do well in one of the twice exceptional programs. Upon doing some research, it seems most, if not all, of the accommodations the 2E program provides are also available at the home schools -- especially at the high school level which is when we might be moving into MCPS. One MCPS person even told me there are 2E classes in all MCPS high schools.

So, what can't you get by just going to your home school? / What is advantage or difference between using the same accommodations at a 2E school vs a home school? / Or, to put it bluntly (and with sincere interest) what is the purpose of the 2E program?

[Anonymous]

My son, who is now a college sophomore, benefited immensely from the GT/LD program at North Bethesda middle school and Walter Johnson high school. I had considered homeschooling before putting him in our inbounds middle and high school, which worked out great for our other kid, so not dinging them, but they weren't the right fit for this kid.

First, there are no "2E classes" anywhere in MCPS. But there are co-taught advanced classes that 2E kids with IEPs or 504s can enroll in, and receive additional support that their IEPs or 504s entitle them to. Co-taught means that there is a permanent paraeducator assigned to that class, along with the teacher, and the para walks about and supports any child who needs it, with priority given to the kids identified as needing services and accommodations.

Very few high school classes are co-taught, whether in the GT/LD program or elsewhere. High schools are giant buildings with 2-3 thousand students and it would be impossible for every advanced class to have a para. But at the middle school level, especially in the ones housing a GT/LD program, it is possible for a lot of classes to have a paraeducator.

However my child did not benefit because the classes were co-taught, he didn't need that kind of support. What the GT/LD program really offers is the experience and compassionate understanding of case managers and teachers who have seen multiple cohorts of 2E kids over the years, and who have a feel for what they need, and what they can and cannot do. It's the mere fact that there is a concentration of 2E kids in those schools, and has been for years, that makes the staff more experienced and able to serve them. I can't tell you the relief I felt during my son's 6th grade parent-teacher conference, when I tried to explain his very low processing speed to his math teacher, and he looked at me and said: "But math ability is separate from speed. Your son understands the math perfectly well. It's OK if he takes more time." When he had just come out of an elementary with teachers that did math speed drills and made him feel like garbage when he could never get through half of the questions... and this exchange set the tone for nearly all of his classes in both middle and high schools. One exception in 12th grade: he had an awful experience with an AP Calc BC math teacher who was super old school and didn't understand special needs. I hope he retired - he was the only teacher that year who taught AP Calc BC and my son couldn't avoid him.

I believe there are two GT/LD programs, one for upcounty and one for downcounty. We're in downcounty. My son had a wonderful 3 years at North Bethesda middle school. The case managers (who are assigned to kids with IEPs) were all very supportive, and one was absolutely incredible. He had a dedicated resource class, full of 2E kids. That's where he was able to receive study and organizational help, finish tests and assignments, and ask more questions.

His stint at Walter Johnson wasn't as great, but that's because it was during the pandemic. Walter Johnson is an EXCELLENT school, one of the best in MCPS. It has a huge number of courses you can take (not all high schools have as many), including a ton of AP courses and post-APs. The GT/LD program isn't as robust in high school, due to the sheer size of the school. A lot of his advanced classes were not co-taught, but his case managers were just as kind and supportive as in middle school. He made progress and ended up ditching the resource class and IEP, and was given a 504.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son, who is now a college sophomore, benefited immensely from the GT/LD program at North Bethesda middle school and Walter Johnson high school. I had considered homeschooling before putting him in our inbounds middle and high school, which worked out great for our other kid, so not dinging them, but they weren't the right fit for this kid.

First, there are no "2E classes" anywhere in MCPS. But there are co-taught advanced classes that 2E kids with IEPs or 504s can enroll in, and receive additional support that their IEPs or 504s entitle them to. Co-taught means that there is a permanent paraeducator assigned to that class, along with the teacher, and the para walks about and supports any child who needs it, with priority given to the kids identified as needing services and accommodations.

Very few high school classes are co-taught, whether in the GT/LD program or elsewhere. High schools are giant buildings with 2-3 thousand students and it would be impossible for every advanced class to have a para. But at the middle school level, especially in the ones housing a GT/LD program, it is possible for a lot of classes to have a paraeducator.

However my child did not benefit because the classes were co-taught, he didn't need that kind of support. What the GT/LD program really offers is the experience and compassionate understanding of case managers and teachers who have seen multiple cohorts of 2E kids over the years, and who have a feel for what they need, and what they can and cannot do. It's the mere fact that there is a concentration of 2E kids in those schools, and has been for years, that makes the staff more experienced and able to serve them. I can't tell you the relief I felt during my son's 6th grade parent-teacher conference, when I tried to explain his very low processing speed to his math teacher, and he looked at me and said: "But math ability is separate from speed. Your son understands the math perfectly well. It's OK if he takes more time." When he had just come out of an elementary with teachers that did math speed drills and made him feel like garbage when he could never get through half of the questions... and this exchange set the tone for nearly all of his classes in both middle and high schools. One exception in 12th grade: he had an awful experience with an AP Calc BC math teacher who was super old school and didn't understand special needs. I hope he retired - he was the only teacher that year who taught AP Calc BC and my son couldn't avoid him.

I believe there are two GT/LD programs, one for upcounty and one for downcounty. We're in downcounty. My son had a wonderful 3 years at North Bethesda middle school. The case managers (who are assigned to kids with IEPs) were all very supportive, and one was absolutely incredible. He had a dedicated resource class, full of 2E kids. That's where he was able to receive study and organizational help, finish tests and assignments, and ask more questions.

His stint at Walter Johnson wasn't as great, but that's because it was during the pandemic. Walter Johnson is an EXCELLENT school, one of the best in MCPS. It has a huge number of courses you can take (not all high schools have as many), including a ton of AP courses and post-APs. The GT/LD program isn't as robust in high school, due to the sheer size of the school. A lot of his advanced classes were not co-taught, but his case managers were just as kind and supportive as in middle school. He made progress and ended up ditching the resource class and IEP, and was given a 504.

Mr. C retired at the end of last year, with many a ruined transcript in his wake

[Anonymous]

I think the PP expresses the secondary school situation very well.

Don't underestimate the importance of a well-versed case manager. When a teacher has 150 students a day, both the teacher and the parent benefit from having another set of eyes and ears on the 2E student.

[Anonymous]

I have yet to come across a co-taught class for a higher level class like an AP. As one example, the co-taught classes at DC's school are for regular Gov not AP Gov and they don't offer co-taught for AP Calc, and I don't think even for Calc with applications.

There are Honors English classes that are co-taught but only because they are honors for all. The co-taught classes can be hit or miss. One year DC was randomly put into one and level of the class was remedial but we heard from a friend they had a co-taught class, again just a regular student randomly put into one, that the teacher was great and the material was as good as in the regular non-co-taught class.

[Anonymous]

Thry have become a dumping ground for the kids who dont fit in well anywhere else...this isn't something I'd necessarily fight for

[Anonymous]

I don't think that's true at the MS or HS levels. The parents I know fought to get their kids in and I've heard nothing but great reviews. We could not get DC into the programs.

[Anonymous]

Answer may depend on what kind of accommodations your kid needs. 504 accommodations at my kids HS are rarely followed. I would definitely looking into the 2E programs

[Anonymous]

They are bad at the ES level

[Anonymous]

Does your child have a current IEP? I wouldn't assume that if you move to public, you would automatically be placed in one of the GT/LD programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thry have become a dumping ground for the kids who dont fit in well anywhere else...this isn't something I'd necessarily fight for

The next level down is being an unsupported 2e kid in high school. You may run into a few teachers that understand what that means and how to teach you but you may also get teachers and counselors who are more a hindrance than a help.

Mcps is a bad place for any SN kid to be unless they are in one of the few GT programs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Answer may depend on what kind of accommodations your kid needs. 504 accommodations at my kids HS are rarely followed. I would definitely looking into the 2E programs

Ieps are not followed either.

[Anonymous]

I was told the North Bethesda GT/LD programming is only for kids with an IEP, not a 504.
Does every middle school have 2e support via GT/LD programs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was told the North Bethesda GT/LD programming is only for kids with an IEP, not a 504.
Does every middle school have 2e support via GT/LD programs?

No, this was just discussed above you, PP. There's a upcounty and a downcounty secondary program, which means two middle and two high schools. North Bethesda/Walter Johnson is the downcounty program. They represent the best of MCPS, honestly.