Europe w/ 4 year old and 2 yr old for the Holidays- Good idea or bad?

[Anonymous]

We are thinking about going to Paris for two weeks over Christmas/New Years. We are in love with the idea but trying to get over the cost of trip/worries of it being hard with the kids. We have the money but it still seems like a lot to spend at once when the kids are teeny. On the other hand we want the kids to start experiencing international travel. How have others gotten over the cost issue? Connected the this is how the trip would be with two little ones. Has anyone gone with kids this young and still loved it (assuming I adjust my expectations about what we can do). Did you do a lot of napping on the go for the kids? Did you bring a double stroller despite the metro and streets so that the older one could rest some? Any tips are much appreciated.

[Anonymous]

Take into consideration at that time of year Paris can be cold, wet, damp and dark. Not always perfect for young children that need to run around. Also realize that a lot of stuff closes down for Christmas, boxing day etc. Which means you are attempting to find meals, museums aren't open and if you are looking for indoor activities for kids on a cold rainy day it can be a challenge. I would not bring a double stroller to Paris. The side walks and just not big enough. I would bring one single stroller and a ergo carrier for the younger child. Having a stroller in a european city is a challenge. It needs to be able to handle cobblestone streets, there are rarely elevators and you are constantly folding and unfolding - a real pain if your child has fallen asleep. I would say that you should assess what you want to do when you are there. My kids at those ages wouldn't not want to go to musuems or churches. Being outside was essential which in bad weather limits you. On the other hand I love traveling with my kids and sharing with them the world. We have traveled to the Netherlands at that time of year but we didnt' do any public transport- I had a great mclaren umbrella stroller with a rain cover and a fleece insert to keep the kid warm (only one kid at that point). I ended up doing a lot of walking where DS slept, we took long naps in the hotel, spent time in cafes getting warm food.

Personally I think you might get more from the experience with young kids when the weather is nicer but with that said trips are what you make of it. If your kids love being outside regardless of weather and they are dressed for it, great, if they don't mind hanging out in museums or churches not a problem. I guess I would evaluated your needs and interests.

[Anonymous]

Bragging rights (yawn) only. The kids are too young. It's a total waste of time and money.

[Anonymous]

I disagree. Our DS has gotten SO much out traveling with us. It can be very simple as learning a few words in a new language to seeing sites that to this day he still remembers and talks about. Plus seeing the world through the eyes of children is truly an amazing experience for the parents. You have to slow down, might not see the city in the way you would like, but that afternoon of site seeing where they see the eiffel tower for the first time. Priceless. So many times it was the things we didn't plan for that turn out to be the most wonderful. A hike around a lake, eating sorbetto in Italy and watching trains go by. Its worth it in ways you can't apply a dollar amount to. In addition you get to spend time together as a family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bragging rights (yawn) only. The kids are too young. It's a total waste of time and money.

Agreed -kids that young are just as happy with a shiny balloon and a trip to the petting zoo.

We took my 3 year old on a business/pleasure trip to Paris. Felt mighty proud of myself at first -then I listened to her tell everyone the best thing about our trip was the cab.

If I had known she would fixate on the cab, I could have saved a few bucks and called Red Top.

Fast forward to our now 9 year-old: Completely different story -she can read, is developing a concept of history, and can actually comprehend that she is seeing something unique. Also, jet lag is so much easier with a kid this age.

If I had it to do over, I would have waited a few years before our first adventure.

[Anonymous]

We travel for the big, out of the country trips with our kids now that they are older, when they can remember what happened. It depends on how much you want to deal with. For me, it was too stressful traveling with the strollers, diaper bags and all the shit you have to haul with you with little kids, that I preferred to wait until they could pack and carry their stuff independently.
I don't think they missed out on a thing by only going to Busch Gardens and Disney when they were little.

[Anonymous]

I am sorry, but I just don't understand this philosophy. So you just rule out anything expensive for your child or any activity before they are 9 or so just because they will not remember it? You do not take your children to the zoo and museums at the Mall because they will not remember it when they are older (and tell other people? brag? about it....) So if a french mom asked you about coming to DC you would say forget it, it is not worth your money and kiddo won't enjoy it because he can't read?

It is not about bragging at least not for my family, we honestly LOVE traveling and we simply did not stop doing it because we had kids. We have taken our kids all over the world and enjoyed it immensely. Yes, the pace is different and sure there are some places you will not be able to go but just the same without kids you would probably not spend an afternoon enjoying a picnic in a local park or a visit the zoo or just sit down for a big gelato cone in a piazza chasing pigeons.... Everything is relative.

Back to your question OP. We have done Paris a couple of times with little ones. My first suggestion is to rent an apartment in a central area. We are partial to the 7th arrondissement (Saint Germain). That way you will be a lot more comfortable, have access to a kitchen and W/D and save some money. Do not take a double stroller. If needed take two umbrella strollers and you drive one and your husband drives the other. A lot easier, but bear in mind that most metro stations have no escalators or elevators and restaurants and sidewalks are small and crowded. We usually called restaurants ahead and made a reservation saying we were coming with children and a "poussette". Contrary to general belief people have always been extremely nice and accommodating.
As a PP pointed out the weather in December is cold, dark and damp. Bundle up.
Try to hit the street markets. They are amazing and you can buy a lot of ready made food there for an easy dinner and breakfast.
Museums are expensive. My kids loved the Pompidou center (tons of stuff going on around the building), Orsay and Musee Rodin (great gardens). For the Louvre we took turns.
You might also want to find ahead of time a possible sitter so your husband and you can enjoy an evening on your own. Maybe someone from this boards can help you with that.
Have a wonderful time! Take time just to walk idly and if your children have a fabulous time riding a cab (like mine do every time we go to NYC -big highlight of every trip!) then take a moment to enjoy it too trying to forget all those euros

[Anonymous]

No PP, I just don't blow a gazillion dollars on a trip to Europe for little kids. It's a pain traveling with them, and it's an expensive trip that I want to enjoy, not stress over. They got to go to the zoo and other nearby inexpensive places when they were little, and are very happy well adjusted teens now. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

I'd seriously think about how jet lag would affect your time there. One rule of thumb is that it takes a day to recover for every hour of time difference.

Remember, too, the strains of long-distance travel. We did an overnight to Europe with kids about that age, and neither slept almost at all. So the jet lag was pretty rough those first few days. Luckily, we were there almost a year, so it was well worth a few difficult days.

For us, going abroad with young kids for a longer term was a great experience, and we all got a lot out of it. We had our own apartment, so we had our own kitchen and could follow our own routines. Without that sort of set-up, we'll shorter trips abroad until the kids are a little older. Certainly, that would be my advice if the money is a stressful element!

[Anonymous]

I agree that when they're little you'll need your own apartment for comfort and routines. I wouldn't want to do that flight unless I had to visit a dying relative, though - so exhausting with two under 4.

[Anonymous]

If you have really set your heart on going I wouldn't let jet lag stop you. It will pass quickly especially with the stimulation of a new environment. Do consider the apartment option and the fact that it will be cold and probably damp. Try to make it with one stroller--the metro stops are often not far apart so your four year old could probably walk quite a bit.

If the weather isn't terrible, check out the parks, playgrounds as well as the usual sights. I bet the train stations would be fascinating for your little ones though some are in fairly sketchy neighborhoods...

Two weeks is quite a long time to be in Paris so perhaps consider a day trip to Rouen or Tours. Both are easily accessible by train.

[Anonymous]

Op here: thanks for all the replies. First, yes the trip would be an experience for the kids but we would mostly be doing it for ourselves in terms of memories. I have a big birthday coming up so hubby thought it might be nice to go on a big trip to celebrate. We love to travel so I don't really Want to stop until the kids are 9 or 10.

Our plan so far would be to rent an apartment so that we could eat in a lot. I think that would work much better with two little ones.

The weather is not a deterrent since we are originally from the northeast and now live in that climate with the kids. I think cold, rain some snow but mostly above freezing temp won't stop us from walking and enjoying the outdoors.

I think what it comes down to is now that we have two kids the price of this trip is way more than pre kids. Also I am afraid if we don't bring someone with us i.e my little sister or hire a babysitter, we'll get bummed that we didn't get to do certain things. We have both been to paris but before we were married. I just have to work up the courage and decide it is worth and will be fun.

More tips and advice much appreciated.thanks!

[Anonymous]

Oh and as far Paris for two weeks, the plan was to use it as a base for day trips. Would that work?

[Anonymous]

Its sounds like you have thought through the trip and I would say do it. The 2 year old won't get as much from the experience but then again if its a boy they will be easily entertained with trains, plays, taxi and boats.FREE entertainment. Do remember to reduce your expectations and expect the kids to be tired. We have found that the first few days the new environment and all of the excite of traveling our kids are great and ready to see and do anything. Around day 4 they are tired and need more down time. So we factor in a day of laundry, taking it slow only doing one activity. To be honest I don't miss much about traveling pre-kids - sure you could see and do a lot more but I also think that approach we didn't slow down enough to take in the real life style. With kids you are forced to. Certainly Paris makes a good base for trips but again traveling regularly with kids will wear them out. Our DS is a great traveler but he does get to a point where the best thing for him is a day to run around a playground or a visit to a large department store with TOYS. What has worked for us is we have a few pre-planned events, then some things we'd like to do and the rest we go with the flow of what the kids are doing and whether a rest day is needed.

[Anonymous]

I've done long overseas trips with little ones, and it is about a zillion times easier (for me, anyway) to travel with a 3 year old than a 2 year old. And it gets even easier at 4. So for that reason alone, I'd wait a year (or ideally, 2).

As to jet lag, we had a HORRIBLE readjustment last time we travelled overseas. Our 15 month old spent 3 weeks up half the night every single night.