Loudoun GT program - waste of time?

[Anonymous]

The LCPS GT program seems to be a gifted program in name only. While entry in 3rd grade is supposedly based on CogAT/NNAT scores, about half of the students are added through teacher nominations, primarily to meet diversity goals.

The once-a-week GT class, which claims to focus on leadership and innovation, lacks any measurable outcomes—there are no assessments or no grades to track student learning. In fact, some students in the program struggle with reading and math in middle school.

I’m considering whether my rising 8th grader's time would be better spent elsewhere next academic year rather than continuing in this program.

[Anonymous]

It's public education. Both Fairfax and Loudon have similar philosophies. More resources are directed at making underperforming children get to grade level than most other state (G&T) or federally (disability) mandated activities. The boards are filled with both of those groups complaining about lack of specialized education that should be guaranteed by law. Your school's socio-economic makeup and particularly income levels will impact your child's education more than the G&T program, as it will determine the peers around them.

If you're unhappy with the education, you can do outside enrichment activities to supplement where you think they're weak, move to a higher SES school via a very expensive home purchase for a higher peer group, or you can pay for private education.

A truly gifted child has no options in northern virginia public school systems, but then again... most "truly" gifted children are going to figure it out on their own anyway.

[Anonymous]

So where or which school district in your opinion does a great GT program exist? The problem is that every parent thinks that their kid gifted and so talented that the school district cannot provide the services that their genius kids requires. Maybe your kids are not the next Nobel prize candidate, but an average smart kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's public education. Both Fairfax and Loudon have similar philosophies. More resources are directed at making underperforming children get to grade level than most other state (G&T) or federally (disability) mandated activities. The boards are filled with both of those groups complaining about lack of specialized education that should be guaranteed by law. Your school's socio-economic makeup and particularly income levels will impact your child's education more than the G&T program, as it will determine the peers around them.

If you're unhappy with the education, you can do outside enrichment activities to supplement where you think they're weak, move to a higher SES school via a very expensive home purchase for a higher peer group, or you can pay for private education.

A truly gifted child has no options in northern virginia public school systems, but then again... most "truly" gifted children are going to figure it out on their own anyway.

What do do for the not truly gifted but bright and advanced? They seem to fall through the cracks as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's public education. Both Fairfax and Loudon have similar philosophies. More resources are directed at making underperforming children get to grade level than most other state (G&T) or federally (disability) mandated activities. The boards are filled with both of those groups complaining about lack of specialized education that should be guaranteed by law. Your school's socio-economic makeup and particularly income levels will impact your child's education more than the G&T program, as it will determine the peers around them.

If you're unhappy with the education, you can do outside enrichment activities to supplement where you think they're weak, move to a higher SES school via a very expensive home purchase for a higher peer group, or you can pay for private education.

A truly gifted child has no options in northern virginia public school systems, but then again... most "truly" gifted children are going to figure it out on their own anyway.

What do do for the not truly gifted but bright and advanced? They seem to fall through the cracks as well.

What do you mean? They get to be the smart kids in class and be bored 60% of the time, just like you likely were. They'll be fine in the long run.

[Anonymous]

I look at what my bright kid gets in school through AAP and it is 10x what i ever got through GT in elementary. People complain, but I'm happy.

OP, if you opt out of the program, what are you going to have your child do instead? It makes sense to skip it if there are better options, but if it's just going to be more regular classes your kid is head and shoulders above/bored in, why not do it? (even if there are no measurable outcomes?) My GT program in elementary was one afternoon a week, no grades but we did cool stuff--I clearly remember studying aerodynamics of flight and working with local pilots to study their planes. It was definitely a big deal part of 6th grade for me.

[Anonymous]

Opting out of FCPS GT (AAP) doesn't make sense as it advanced academics oriented, and switching to gen ed would be even more boring.

Whereas LCPS GT is non-academic and only half block every other day. So if there better academic choices to attend during that block, it may be something to consider.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I look at what my bright kid gets in school through AAP and it is 10x what i ever got through GT in elementary. People complain, but I'm happy.

OP, if you opt out of the program, what are you going to have your child do instead? It makes sense to skip it if there are better options, but if it's just going to be more regular classes your kid is head and shoulders above/bored in, why not do it? (even if there are no measurable outcomes?) My GT program in elementary was one afternoon a week, no grades but we did cool stuff--I clearly remember studying aerodynamics of flight and working with local pilots to study their planes. It was definitely a big deal part of 6th grade for me.

I think that people forget that this is public education. They want a program that reads more like a private school for gifted kids with advanced classes or individualized classes without having to pay tuition.

This is public school, the schools have to balance the needs of the whole and federal and state mandates. The need to provide support to kids with IEPs is mandated by law. The need to have all students at grade level is mandated. That is where the money and energy are going to go. The effort for kids who are ahead or are GT is going to be minimal because those kids meet the state and federal mandates. FCPS's AAP is above what is required by state law even if many people would like to see it even more advanced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I look at what my bright kid gets in school through AAP and it is 10x what i ever got through GT in elementary. People complain, but I'm happy.

OP, if you opt out of the program, what are you going to have your child do instead? It makes sense to skip it if there are better options, but if it's just going to be more regular classes your kid is head and shoulders above/bored in, why not do it? (even if there are no measurable outcomes?) My GT program in elementary was one afternoon a week, no grades but we did cool stuff--I clearly remember studying aerodynamics of flight and working with local pilots to study their planes. It was definitely a big deal part of 6th grade for me.

I think that people forget that this is public education. They want a program that reads more like a private school for gifted kids with advanced classes or individualized classes without having to pay tuition.

This is public school, the schools have to balance the needs of the whole and federal and state mandates. The need to provide support to kids with IEPs is mandated by law. The need to have all students at grade level is mandated. That is where the money and energy are going to go. The effort for kids who are ahead or are GT is going to be minimal because those kids meet the state and federal mandates. FCPS's AAP is above what is required by state law even if many people would like to see it even more advanced.

What is supposed to be focused and limited on needs of truly advanced has been lowered in standards to include broader segments in the name of diversity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I look at what my bright kid gets in school through AAP and it is 10x what i ever got through GT in elementary. People complain, but I'm happy.

OP, if you opt out of the program, what are you going to have your child do instead? It makes sense to skip it if there are better options, but if it's just going to be more regular classes your kid is head and shoulders above/bored in, why not do it? (even if there are no measurable outcomes?) My GT program in elementary was one afternoon a week, no grades but we did cool stuff--I clearly remember studying aerodynamics of flight and working with local pilots to study their planes. It was definitely a big deal part of 6th grade for me.

I think that people forget that this is public education. They want a program that reads more like a private school for gifted kids with advanced classes or individualized classes without having to pay tuition.

This is public school, the schools have to balance the needs of the whole and federal and state mandates. The need to provide support to kids with IEPs is mandated by law. The need to have all students at grade level is mandated. That is where the money and energy are going to go. The effort for kids who are ahead or are GT is going to be minimal because those kids meet the state and federal mandates. FCPS's AAP is above what is required by state law even if many people would like to see it even more advanced.

What is supposed to be focused and limited on needs of truly advanced has been lowered in standards to include broader segments in the name of diversity.

I'd actually say the opposite. The largest contingent of people benefitting from the expansion are the wealthy families (mostly white). While there is a push to expand further in name of diversity (school-by-school pools, noting of ESL and minority status), that pales in comparison of the wealthy individuals who have hacked the system through enrichment and test prep to make their child appear gifted, but in reality, has just had more opportunities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I look at what my bright kid gets in school through AAP and it is 10x what i ever got through GT in elementary. People complain, but I'm happy.

OP, if you opt out of the program, what are you going to have your child do instead? It makes sense to skip it if there are better options, but if it's just going to be more regular classes your kid is head and shoulders above/bored in, why not do it? (even if there are no measurable outcomes?) My GT program in elementary was one afternoon a week, no grades but we did cool stuff--I clearly remember studying aerodynamics of flight and working with local pilots to study their planes. It was definitely a big deal part of 6th grade for me.

I think that people forget that this is public education. They want a program that reads more like a private school for gifted kids with advanced classes or individualized classes without having to pay tuition.

This is public school, the schools have to balance the needs of the whole and federal and state mandates. The need to provide support to kids with IEPs is mandated by law. The need to have all students at grade level is mandated. That is where the money and energy are going to go. The effort for kids who are ahead or are GT is going to be minimal because those kids meet the state and federal mandates. FCPS's AAP is above what is required by state law even if many people would like to see it even more advanced.

What is supposed to be focused and limited on needs of truly advanced has been lowered in standards to include broader segments in the name of diversity.

I'd actually say the opposite. The largest contingent of people benefitting from the expansion are the wealthy families (mostly white). While there is a push to expand further in name of diversity (school-by-school pools, noting of ESL and minority status), that pales in comparison of the wealthy individuals who have hacked the system through enrichment and test prep to make their child appear gifted, but in reality, has just had more opportunities.

When schools lower standards for DEI, outside enrichment steps in to maintain higher standards. Whether provided by schools or sought externally, merit-driven students will pursue knowledge of higher standards. Similar to how student athletes prep outside of school to enhance their skills for public school team placement.

[Anonymous]

Once week? Spectrum isn't once a week. What school are you talking about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I look at what my bright kid gets in school through AAP and it is 10x what i ever got through GT in elementary. People complain, but I'm happy.

OP, if you opt out of the program, what are you going to have your child do instead? It makes sense to skip it if there are better options, but if it's just going to be more regular classes your kid is head and shoulders above/bored in, why not do it? (even if there are no measurable outcomes?) My GT program in elementary was one afternoon a week, no grades but we did cool stuff--I clearly remember studying aerodynamics of flight and working with local pilots to study their planes. It was definitely a big deal part of 6th grade for me.

I think that people forget that this is public education. They want a program that reads more like a private school for gifted kids with advanced classes or individualized classes without having to pay tuition.

This is public school, the schools have to balance the needs of the whole and federal and state mandates. The need to provide support to kids with IEPs is mandated by law. The need to have all students at grade level is mandated. That is where the money and energy are going to go. The effort for kids who are ahead or are GT is going to be minimal because those kids meet the state and federal mandates. FCPS's AAP is above what is required by state law even if many people would like to see it even more advanced.

What is supposed to be focused and limited on needs of truly advanced has been lowered in standards to include broader segments in the name of diversity.

I'd actually say the opposite. The largest contingent of people benefitting from the expansion are the wealthy families (mostly white). While there is a push to expand further in name of diversity (school-by-school pools, noting of ESL and minority status), that pales in comparison of the wealthy individuals who have hacked the system through enrichment and test prep to make their child appear gifted, but in reality, has just had more opportunities.

When schools lower standards for DEI, outside enrichment steps in to maintain higher standards. Whether provided by schools or sought externally, merit-driven students will pursue knowledge of higher standards. Similar to how student athletes prep outside of school to enhance their skills for public school team placement.

PP here. I agree except that I believe its more merit driven parents and not students and I stand by my comment. Children whose parents can afford it and dedicate time to enrichment are given an upper hand to get into AAP because of their opportunities, which at this age has less to do with their capacity and giftedness. As someone who's capitalized on this to get into AAP knowing my child is just likely above average and not gifted, our family is an example. I know of several others.

[Anonymous]

This should be extended to high school sports. Too many kids make varsity only because their parents spend so much $ and time prepping them from a young age. What about the kids whose parents aren’t able to pay for private lessons and travel sports? Their child might have more raw talent, but they haven’t had the opportunities to develop it.

Why should students who have already received so much be rewarded with varsity spots? Those kids can play club sports, as their parents can clearly afford it. School sports should focus on underserved kids with u developed talent.

[Anonymous]

Nothing has changed since I was in school in the 1980's. My parents provided tutoring for me and my younger brother with Learning Disabilities and enrichment for my older brothers who were GT. They sent my brothers to summer camps for GT kids. I worked with a specialist over the summer, my younger brother worked with a tutor who specialized in dyslexia 2 days a week for years. The public schools were not fully meeting any of our needs, so my parents supplemented.

And yes, that is the benefit that comes from having educated, informed parents with means. We all got the extra support that we needed that the public schools could not provide.

It is the same situation today. Kids with IEPs will have extra support but that support will not meet their full needs. It will do help them get to the baseline that is required by the schools because that is what the schools are legally obligated to support and because it is expensive to get many kids to that bar, never mind above it. The schools will provide some additional programming for smart/advanced/GT kids but they are not going to provide anything that is going to really engage the kids who are GT and who are advanced. Parents have to supplement.

And yes, the same thing happens in sports. The kids who come from families who can provide tutoring or coaching or supplementing are likely to be the kids who rise to the top. You have the occassional kid who comes from nothing and rises to the top story but those are rare. I worked with someone who came from an impoverished background, managed to go to college, served in the military, and was living an MC life now. He was proud of what he did. We would talk about his classmates and siblings who are living in the same town with minimum wage jobs, on disability, or in jail. The "pull yourself up by the boot straps" stories are rare.