Succession - Season 4

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I personally saw this episode as a possible foreshadowing of 2024 and it made me sick. I was down all night.

I agree. I found it very sickening to watch.

I agree. It was disaster porn and lazy writing.

This episode was far from Lazy writing. It touched us all so much, a terrifying idea of what could happen in the next election, and brought up history from 2016/2020. It was a great episode, perhaps the best one I've seen on Succession (Logan's death was the best acting).

Agree, and I also appreciate how much this episode refused to soften any of the characters or make any of them sympathetic. There was a moment when I felt bad for Shiv (when she tells Tom about the pregnancy and then he asks if she's just using this as a tactic) but I didn't find her very sympathetic. But even in that moment, I can recall a million times when Shiv was very cruel and terrible to Tom and I kind of get where he is coming from.

It reminds me of Veep, which could also be a hard watch even when it was very funny, because it's incredibly cynical about the people it portrays. But that cynicism allows them to be honest in a way a lot of scripted series are not. It's brutal but, I think, revealing. This episode was miserable to watch but will also stay with me a long time in a positive way, in terms of shaping how I think about media and politics and who has my best interests at heart (hint: none of the people in charge).

IMO Shiv used that moment to tell Tom she’s pregnant as a manipulation tactic. She starts out asking him to meet privately during an enormously frantic and stressful time period at work when he has no extra time. Yet she picks RIGHT NOW to take him aside and say “hey, I’m sorry for the way I spoke and what I said last night”. And then expects he to get in line and apologize to her. When he doesn’t react the way she expects, she uses the other information in her toolbox: her pregnancy info. She weaponizes this info and blurts it out. Right there and then. She’s had plenty of other chances in much less frantic moments and knowing the person she is and all her history of being so mean to Tom she uses this as a way to get him to act like she wants. Of course he’s suspicious of her motives and truthfulness. Anyone would be.

I think Shiv is a great and not entirely unsympathetic character for precisely this reason. She does a lot of truly reprehensible things because she is, always and everywhere, trying to have it both ways or play both sides, and the narrative logic is making it pretty clear that ultimately she is doing more harm to herself than anyone else. She’s kind of a sad figure. Of course, as the writing continues to crater she’ll probably end up the uncontested girlboss of the Waystar/PGM/GoJo empire who uses her powers for justice, so it will all have been worth it. Lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I personally saw this episode as a possible foreshadowing of 2024 and it made me sick. I was down all night.

I agree. I found it very sickening to watch.

I agree. It was disaster porn and lazy writing.

This episode was far from Lazy writing. It touched us all so much, a terrifying idea of what could happen in the next election, and brought up history from 2016/2020. It was a great episode, perhaps the best one I've seen on Succession (Logan's death was the best acting).

Agree, and I also appreciate how much this episode refused to soften any of the characters or make any of them sympathetic. There was a moment when I felt bad for Shiv (when she tells Tom about the pregnancy and then he asks if she's just using this as a tactic) but I didn't find her very sympathetic. But even in that moment, I can recall a million times when Shiv was very cruel and terrible to Tom and I kind of get where he is coming from.

It reminds me of Veep, which could also be a hard watch even when it was very funny, because it's incredibly cynical about the people it portrays. But that cynicism allows them to be honest in a way a lot of scripted series are not. It's brutal but, I think, revealing. This episode was miserable to watch but will also stay with me a long time in a positive way, in terms of shaping how I think about media and politics and who has my best interests at heart (hint: none of the people in charge).

IMO Shiv used that moment to tell Tom she’s pregnant as a manipulation tactic. She starts out asking him to meet privately during an enormously frantic and stressful time period at work when he has no extra time. Yet she picks RIGHT NOW to take him aside and say “hey, I’m sorry for the way I spoke and what I said last night”. And then expects he to get in line and apologize to her. When he doesn’t react the way she expects, she uses the other information in her toolbox: her pregnancy info. She weaponizes this info and blurts it out. Right there and then. She’s had plenty of other chances in much less frantic moments and knowing the person she is and all her history of being so mean to Tom she uses this as a way to get him to act like she wants. Of course he’s suspicious of her motives and truthfulness. Anyone would be.

I felt more like Shiv was being sincere but Tom's reaction was very understandable. Shiv is very impulsive and fairly self-centered so it doesn't surprise me that she picked the worst possible moment to pull him aside and try to make nice. I feel like that was a moment that the writers left up to interpretation. To me, Shiv looked genuinely hurt when Tom reacted that way. And when she walks off there's a moment where he's alone and there's a close up of his face where he looks like he's really processing what just happened with a kind of "did I just hear that I got exactly what I wanted?"

Doesn't mean her motives are totally pure though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the ending will be something like The Sopranos - we won't really find out what happens and it'll be left to our imaginations.

This whole show has been about how these horrible people are constantly trying to break free of the ruinous cycles they live in - just, over and over, and over and over, they try to do something new and end up doing the same thing, stuck in the same luxurious trap. I think the ending will have to be that everything has changed, and nothing has changed, and they are still stuck - and because they are so powerful, we're stuck, too.

I agree with this. None of these people seem like the kind to have a come-to-Jesus moment, and anyway we’re too far along in the final season for that to be plausible.

So they will keep doing what they’ve been doing, maybe Waystar is broken up but they still run most of the pieces, and us regular folks are still stuck with them.

[Anonymous]

If I were Tom I’d file for divorce and get amazing alimony while I took a job I actually liked. Maybe that’s what Shiv’s afraid of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If I were Tom I’d file for divorce and get amazing alimony while I took a job I actually liked. Maybe that’s what Shiv’s afraid of.

+ child support as the father of their child

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Shiv doesn’t terminate, I think we’ll see a flash forward of a nanny taking care of her baby. Just like the Roy kids were raised by nannies.

It’s too bad Connor and Willa aren’t the ones having a child - I actually think they’d be doting parents, especially Connor who never received love or attention from his own parents.

Or we’ll see Shiv interviewing nannies at least.

I agree Connor and Willa would be doting parents, but Connor at least has zero common sense and the kid would be spoiled terribly. I wouldn’t be surprised if Willa isn’t pregnant by the end of the season.

Shiv would never be the one to interview nannies. They are that rich. Someone else will do it all. I think the brothers are in for a beating as the issues with the deal come out. Shiv is the most competent in the family and will be running something successfully and it may be ATN.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If I were Tom I’d file for divorce and get amazing alimony while I took a job I actually liked. Maybe that’s what Shiv’s afraid of.

Did you see that Gerri had to threaten Roman with the use of a reputation defender to ensure they wouldn't destroy her after leaving? Tom also knows the media machine will be used to destroy his life once he is cast out of the family. Didn't Logan start that kind of stuff when Rava divorced Kendall? They harass and try to destroy the lives of those they cast off. It's like being in the mafia, you never get to leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The last line by Kendall about how some people just don't know how to cut a deal.

i was confused for a bit but I think I now get it and it's so brilliant.

He is wracked by guilt b/c of his role in getting a fascist elected and he is assuaging that guilt by blaming Nate/Jimenez for not agreeing to block the deal.

Anyone have a different take?

The writing on this show is just amazing.

You've got it. He is justifying going against what few principles he had and is, like his dad, all about the $. We're seeing a transition moment for him to becoming less Kendall and more Logan. I still think we will see his downfall before the series ends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I am very anti “shiv is going to abort!” because I think it’s a huge reach and there is like 1-2 posters obsessed with that idea who keep talking about it.
BUT!
Two episodes left and shiv has only told Tom so far (who didn’t even seem to believe her). And it seems each episode only lasts a day (or two). Which means the series will end way before Shivs due date.
I could totally see the end of her arc being that she either leaves Tom/ leaves her entire family (or is kicked out), aborts, and goes off somewhere alone.
Or, commits suicide. She took some big blows this season.

I don’t think it’s realistic to end the series with a main character being pregnant and not having the pregnancy be resolved either by a baby being born or by the pregnancy ending. It’s not a neat closure otherwise. I think the series will somehow need to complete her pregnancy arch- either by shiv having the baby, miscarrying, aborting, or committing suicide.

You criticize those of us who have suggested Shiv will abort, and then you suggest that it's quite possible she aborts.

I criticized people making up things about reasons she had an amino - to give her a reason to abort- and saying “she was sitting in the conference room about to call and schedule an abortion when Tom walked in”, absolutely. Because it was made up.

[Anonymous]

Shiv used her information about her pregnancy exactly the way Tom advised someone to: like a fine wine, and then she smashed his face with it. I thought the episode was incredible, not lazy at all. Of course now I'm terrified that next year someone is going to attempt (and succeed) at setting fire to ballot boxes in largely Democratic-leaning cities.

[Anonymous]

the show is called "Succession" and it's about the toxic loops that keep repeating, both big and small.

So Shiv will have the baby. And get back together with Tom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Shout-out to the hair stylists for making the female ATN anchors' blond hair look like Fox anchors'.

I noticed that too!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Shiv used her information about her pregnancy exactly the way Tom advised someone to: like a fine wine, and then she smashed his face with it. I thought the episode was incredible, not lazy at all. Of course now I'm terrified that next year someone is going to attempt (and succeed) at setting fire to ballot boxes in largely Democratic-leaning cities.

THIS! I was like: stop giving the a playbook. Democracy is holding on by a thread

[Anonymous]

We are not talking enough about how this episode made me lost any empathy I ever had for Roman. He was just a reprehensible MAGA twat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are not talking enough about how this episode made me lost any empathy I ever had for Roman. He was just a reprehensible MAGA twat.

Yep. And every one under estimates him. But he just changed the course of history, democracy.