Why do some HS teachers tell students not to care about grades -

[Anonymous]

but then they are the toughest graders that a student has? I don't get it.

My kid has a Japanese teacher like this - arguably one of the most difficult languages courses in high school. His teacher consistently talks about how the kids shouldn't care so much about grades, that they should be in the class for the sake of learning, etc., but then is a tough grader.

Or, recently, my kid said he told the class: "Oh, I was about to give a test on X, but it was going to be really difficult, so I will cancel that test - this is especially for those of you out there who care about grades."

My kid absolutely cares about his grades. And why shouldn't he? The system he operates in rewards grades and test scores. One B can thwart future plans.

If the teacher truly wanted kids to learn and not be concerned with grades, wouldn't he have a grading system that reflects this philosophy?

Also, foreign language, like math, science, English and social science are a must. It's not like kids have a choice in any of this if they plan to go to college.

[Anonymous]

I don't know any high school teacher telling kids not to care about grades. That's weird, especially since they are the ones giving them.

[Anonymous]

The teacher is noticing that kids care way too much about grades and is likely also observing firsthand the increased stress that brings them all. He wishes they were all enjoying learning more. I don’t see why this would correlate to the tests being hard or easy. The teachers whole point is they wish the kids would focus on learning.

Think of it this way, if a trainer wanted you to work out for your health instead of how your body looks, they wouldn’t necessarily make the workout easier!

[Anonymous]

I get that. But as I mentioned he’s a tough grader in a very tough class. The way he grades is causing stress - it’s disingenuous to say grades don’t matter.

If a teacher truly wanted to have kids focus on learning instead of grades - then don’t have grades. Pass/Fail would work.

Conferences are coming up soon. And I’m thinking about discussing this with him in a way that’s non-confrontational. But I think figuring out the motivation behind this philosophy would help my kid who is a junior and, yeah, focused on his gpa this year.

Any ideas for how to do this?

[Anonymous]

Is he Japanese?
I am Japanese. Japan has one of the highest rates of student suicides due to academic pressure.
This teacher, who was likely trained in Japan, and is sensitive to the culture, had difficulty compromising on how he was taught to grade. Americans are known to grade very leniently, but the rest of the world doesn't do that.
So he's boxed himself in: all he can do is tell kids that all this academic stress is not good for them. In the end, they'll go to college, and get jobs, and if the college is not an Ivy, it doesn't matter. They can still have wonderful careers.

If you really want your kid to have As in his class, you need to hire a tutor. Please do not expect someone who is not culturally American to grade like an American. When I was a teaching assistant in a US university, the professor pointed to all the foreign TAs and told us that she knew we were going to be harsh graders (we came from all over the world). She asked us to be as lenient as possible... because the department did not want to harassed by parents! My jaw dropped to the floor. It was the first time I heard about parents inserting themselves in their kids' education. Where I come from, all respect is given to the sensei.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is he Japanese?
I am Japanese. Japan has one of the highest rates of student suicides due to academic pressure.
This teacher, who was likely trained in Japan, and is sensitive to the culture, had difficulty compromising on how he was taught to grade. Americans are known to grade very leniently, but the rest of the world doesn't do that.
So he's boxed himself in: all he can do is tell kids that all this academic stress is not good for them. In the end, they'll go to college, and get jobs, and if the college is not an Ivy, it doesn't matter. They can still have wonderful careers.

If you really want your kid to have As in his class, you need to hire a tutor. Please do not expect someone who is not culturally American to grade like an American. When I was a teaching assistant in a US university, the professor pointed to all the foreign TAs and told us that she knew we were going to be harsh graders (we came from all over the world). She asked us to be as lenient as possible... because the department did not want to harassed by parents! My jaw dropped to the floor. It was the first time I heard about parents inserting themselves in their kids' education. Where I come from, all respect is given to the sensei.

I'm an American but have taught many foreign educated students and got my masters in a British commonwealth country and I agree with this.

Grading and comments tend to be harsher in many countries.

When my kid was doing poorly in a math class taught by a Nigerian immigrant, I got a tutor, because I know that in Nigeria the schools absolutely give out poor grades, including failing grades. Nigerian teachers do not play. They are not going to bump junior's grade up to a B to be nice or because he has anxiety (which my kid does).

[Anonymous]

No, the teacher is not Japanese; he's American. He spent some time working in Japan when he was young.

[Anonymous]

OP can you give us the TL;DR version of your question for us?

[Anonymous]

The point the teacher is trying to make is that students shouldn't be so anxious about grades that they give up on trying, can't focus on assignments, etc. They just aren't phrasing it that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP can you give us the TL;DR version of your question for us?

This is the best I can do:

How should I gently suggest to the teacher in upcoming PTC that being a harsh grader - while at the same time telling students they should be there because they love Japanese and not because they want a good grade - is causing more harm to my kid than helping?

Why is caring about grades an inherently bad thing?

How can my kid demonstrate that he's doing what the teacher asked when he follows the rubric for a graded essay but still makes an 86?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The point the teacher is trying to make is that students shouldn't be so anxious about grades that they give up on trying, can't focus on assignments, etc. They just aren't phrasing it that way.

Ok, that makes sense. It's having the opposite effect on my kid. He went into Japanese class as a freshman excited to learn and now wishes he'd taken a different FL, but is now stuck with it until senior year.

[Anonymous]

I think in some cases the teachers are unaware of the competition to get into elite colleges these days.

It's rare for my kids to have teachers who have high school age kids. They have teachers whose kids are long grown, childless by choice, young teachers with young kids, and young teachers (unmarried or no kids). The few that have high school age kids usually have kids at the top of the class but who are not applying to elite schools. In general, in my school district, the teachers do not come from the most nationally prominent schools in our state. So, they are just insulated from the stress.

[Anonymous]

They're making the point that love of learning should be the driving force in school, even if unfortunately kids are well aware that's not what's rewarded in college admissions.

[Anonymous]

Try to imagine how annoying it is to be really passionate about a subject and try to share that with young people and all they care about is "will this be on the test?" Maybe you want them to use the language creatively to write a poem or something but they will not spread their wings because they are too petrified of getting a B. Maybe you are telling them an interesting anecdote and they're ignoring you because "not on test". It would be very frustrating. I know the kids have to make As at all costs but it's not the teachers fault that they are now competing with the entire world to attend American college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think in some cases the teachers are unaware of the competition to get into elite colleges these days.

It's rare for my kids to have teachers who have high school age kids. They have teachers whose kids are long grown, childless by choice, young teachers with young kids, and young teachers (unmarried or no kids). The few that have high school age kids usually have kids at the top of the class but who are not applying to elite schools. In general, in my school district, the teachers do not come from the most nationally prominent schools in our state. So, they are just insulated from the stress.

This teacher has a kid at our state flagship. He asked my kid one day after class why he's not applying there - within a larger convo about my kid's course load and college wish list. I'm afraid my kid didn't give a fully developed answer to why he's not applying there and it may not have been as tactful as it could have been given the circumstances.