How difficult is it to get into solid UK MA programs in Philosophy(for an American)

[Anonymous]

If an American kid has an undergrad GPA a bit below the "minimum requirement" (for places like Oxford, Cambridge, King's, etc), is there still any chance they could be admitted for an MA in Philosophy? (or are UK grad programs strict about that) Would getting a terminal MA in America (and doing well) before applying help?

[Anonymous]

MA- 3.9

PhD- nearly impossible, you need a 4.0 and dazzling recs from pretty important scholars.

[Anonymous]

The Oxford MSt can be come one come all depending on the discipline (it's a moneymaker). Apply and see what happens.

[Anonymous]

Oxford and Cambridge are looking for top students from top colleges. Your kid should look elsewhere, as there are plenty of places that would love to have them come and spend international fees studying there.

Also to note, the less competitive courses actually have lower fees. So instead of paying circa sterling 25k per year you might only have to pay 15k.

Have you accessed UCAS yet?

[Anonymous]

So, Philosophy is an MPhil at Cambridge (an MA is something their undergrads automatically receive after a few years absent special circumstances) and at Oxford it's a BPhil because there's no undergraduate philosophy degree. Those are far and away the two most worthwhile graduate philosophy degrees in the UK for an American.

Getting an American Master's before a UK one would be looked at with skepticism. If you had an American masters, you'd apply to the PhD program. The quality of your institution and recommendations would matter by far the most then; not your undergraduate GPA.

In terms of your minimum GPA, American GPAs will be evaluated differently because UK programs don't care about your grades in non-related classes -- remember that they don't even have those in most UK programs. What you need is a good recommendation from a known academic who walks through your subject specific grades/credentials and explains how they relate & recommends you. If you're coming from an Ivy+ or a university with a solid philosophy department (e.g., Pitt, Rutgers), this shouldn't be difficult. Otherwise, I wouldn't hold out much hope if the GPA is truly below the minimum.

(I have a philosophy degree from one of these schools and can answer specific questions.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, Philosophy is an MPhil at Cambridge (an MA is something their undergrads automatically receive after a few years absent special circumstances) and at Oxford it's a BPhil because there's no undergraduate philosophy degree. Those are far and away the two most worthwhile graduate philosophy degrees in the UK for an American.

Getting an American Master's before a UK one would be looked at with skepticism. If you had an American masters, you'd apply to the PhD program. The quality of your institution and recommendations would matter by far the most then; not your undergraduate GPA.

In terms of your minimum GPA, American GPAs will be evaluated differently because UK programs don't care about your grades in non-related classes -- remember that they don't even have those in most UK programs. What you need is a good recommendation from a known academic who walks through your subject specific grades/credentials and explains how they relate & recommends you. If you're coming from an Ivy+ or a university with a solid philosophy department (e.g., Pitt, Rutgers), this shouldn't be difficult. Otherwise, I wouldn't hold out much hope if the GPA is truly below the minimum.

(I have a philosophy degree from one of these schools and can answer specific questions.)

Does B Phil not stand for bachelors of Philosophy, an undergraduate degree?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, Philosophy is an MPhil at Cambridge (an MA is something their undergrads automatically receive after a few years absent special circumstances) and at Oxford it's a BPhil because there's no undergraduate philosophy degree. Those are far and away the two most worthwhile graduate philosophy degrees in the UK for an American.

Getting an American Master's before a UK one would be looked at with skepticism. If you had an American masters, you'd apply to the PhD program. The quality of your institution and recommendations would matter by far the most then; not your undergraduate GPA.

In terms of your minimum GPA, American GPAs will be evaluated differently because UK programs don't care about your grades in non-related classes -- remember that they don't even have those in most UK programs. What you need is a good recommendation from a known academic who walks through your subject specific grades/credentials and explains how they relate & recommends you. If you're coming from an Ivy+ or a university with a solid philosophy department (e.g., Pitt, Rutgers), this shouldn't be difficult. Otherwise, I wouldn't hold out much hope if the GPA is truly below the minimum.

(I have a philosophy degree from one of these schools and can answer specific questions.)

Oxford and Cambridge have been around a long time. They don't need someone mansplaining someone's academic credentials. That is an insane suggestion. They have experts in admissions and existing academic debts who are fully capable of looking at an overseas student from pretty much anywhere, and figuring it out. If they require a minimum GPA then that is it, an absolute minimum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, Philosophy is an MPhil at Cambridge (an MA is something their undergrads automatically receive after a few years absent special circumstances) and at Oxford it's a BPhil because there's no undergraduate philosophy degree. Those are far and away the two most worthwhile graduate philosophy degrees in the UK for an American.

Getting an American Master's before a UK one would be looked at with skepticism. If you had an American masters, you'd apply to the PhD program. The quality of your institution and recommendations would matter by far the most then; not your undergraduate GPA.

In terms of your minimum GPA, American GPAs will be evaluated differently because UK programs don't care about your grades in non-related classes -- remember that they don't even have those in most UK programs. What you need is a good recommendation from a known academic who walks through your subject specific grades/credentials and explains how they relate & recommends you. If you're coming from an Ivy+ or a university with a solid philosophy department (e.g., Pitt, Rutgers), this shouldn't be difficult. Otherwise, I wouldn't hold out much hope if the GPA is truly below the minimum.

(I have a philosophy degree from one of these schools and can answer specific questions.)

Oxford and Cambridge have been around a long time. They don't need someone mansplaining someone's academic credentials. That is an insane suggestion. They have experts in admissions and existing academic debts who are fully capable of looking at an overseas student from pretty much anywhere, and figuring it out. If they require a minimum GPA then that is it, an absolute minimum.

You're wrong. There are classes they may or may not count towards the GPA and an academic can explain why they should or shouldn't be included in a way that's most helpful for a student. The Cambridge philosophy program is tiny. 15 first year grad students a year. They 100% do not go through every application with a fine tooth comb to calculate the GPA a variety of ways. If you have an American philosopher write a rec to a Cambridge philosopher in their field recommending an American student and explaining a favorable calculation of the GPA, they can absolutely use it to meet the minimum. I know this for a fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, Philosophy is an MPhil at Cambridge (an MA is something their undergrads automatically receive after a few years absent special circumstances) and at Oxford it's a BPhil because there's no undergraduate philosophy degree. Those are far and away the two most worthwhile graduate philosophy degrees in the UK for an American.

Getting an American Master's before a UK one would be looked at with skepticism. If you had an American masters, you'd apply to the PhD program. The quality of your institution and recommendations would matter by far the most then; not your undergraduate GPA.

In terms of your minimum GPA, American GPAs will be evaluated differently because UK programs don't care about your grades in non-related classes -- remember that they don't even have those in most UK programs. What you need is a good recommendation from a known academic who walks through your subject specific grades/credentials and explains how they relate & recommends you. If you're coming from an Ivy+ or a university with a solid philosophy department (e.g., Pitt, Rutgers), this shouldn't be difficult. Otherwise, I wouldn't hold out much hope if the GPA is truly below the minimum.

(I have a philosophy degree from one of these schools and can answer specific questions.)

Does B Phil not stand for bachelors of Philosophy, an undergraduate degree?

Not in philosophy at Oxford because there is no undergraduate equivalent: https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/graduate/courses/bphil-philosophy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, Philosophy is an MPhil at Cambridge (an MA is something their undergrads automatically receive after a few years absent special circumstances) and at Oxford it's a BPhil because there's no undergraduate philosophy degree. Those are far and away the two most worthwhile graduate philosophy degrees in the UK for an American.

Getting an American Master's before a UK one would be looked at with skepticism. If you had an American masters, you'd apply to the PhD program. The quality of your institution and recommendations would matter by far the most then; not your undergraduate GPA.

In terms of your minimum GPA, American GPAs will be evaluated differently because UK programs don't care about your grades in non-related classes -- remember that they don't even have those in most UK programs. What you need is a good recommendation from a known academic who walks through your subject specific grades/credentials and explains how they relate & recommends you. If you're coming from an Ivy+ or a university with a solid philosophy department (e.g., Pitt, Rutgers), this shouldn't be difficult. Otherwise, I wouldn't hold out much hope if the GPA is truly below the minimum.

(I have a philosophy degree from one of these schools and can answer specific questions.)

Oxford and Cambridge have been around a long time. They don't need someone mansplaining someone's academic credentials. That is an insane suggestion. They have experts in admissions and existing academic debts who are fully capable of looking at an overseas student from pretty much anywhere, and figuring it out. If they require a minimum GPA then that is it, an absolute minimum.

Admission to grad school at Cambridge starts at the Department level for philosophy. There is no centralized admission apparatus until after Department-based selection. You really don’t understand how graduate school in the UK works.

[Anonymous]

don't do this. if your DC is not good enough to be accepted to a top phd program in philosophy they will never be a professional philosopher. they can read and discuss philosophy on a side. even if they were accepted to a phd program at oxbridge they would then apply to an academic job as one of a 1000 applicants. the odds will be against them to be a professor anywhere but a medicare school in the middle of nowhere. and then, on top of it, most professional philosophers i met are, paradoxically, pretty unhappy about their jobs. their salaries are very low and most students are not interested in their work. their academic work is also often very technical. they won a lottery that was not worth winning.

[Anonymous]

^^^

read brian leiter. he has a blog with a lot of info on graduate programs and job prospects. a lot of philosophy students and faculty read it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:don't do this. if your DC is not good enough to be accepted to a top phd program in philosophy they will never be a professional philosopher. they can read and discuss philosophy on a side. even if they were accepted to a phd program at oxbridge they would then apply to an academic job as one of a 1000 applicants. the odds will be against them to be a professor anywhere but a medicare school in the middle of nowhere. and then, on top of it, most professional philosophers i met are, paradoxically, pretty unhappy about their jobs. their salaries are very low and most students are not interested in their work. their academic work is also often very technical. they won a lottery that was not worth winning.

There’s very few top graduate philosophy students who can’t get a good job. Getting a PhD at Princeton or NYU will get you a gold post position at an Ivy (not Harvard, they’re annoying with tenure) or top lac.
The issues you talk about with student interest are general to any humanities prof. If the philosopher doesn’t like their research, then they chose a pretty crap career as a researcher, but it’s very hard to escape the fact that the humanities have to teach general education courses and students these days can hardly read, let alone analyze text.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:don't do this. if your DC is not good enough to be accepted to a top phd program in philosophy they will never be a professional philosopher. they can read and discuss philosophy on a side. even if they were accepted to a phd program at oxbridge they would then apply to an academic job as one of a 1000 applicants. the odds will be against them to be a professor anywhere but a medicare school in the middle of nowhere. and then, on top of it, most professional philosophers i met are, paradoxically, pretty unhappy about their jobs. their salaries are very low and most students are not interested in their work. their academic work is also often very technical. they won a lottery that was not worth winning.

There’s very few top graduate philosophy students who can’t get a good job. Getting a PhD at Princeton or NYU will get you a gold post position at an Ivy (not Harvard, they’re annoying with tenure) or top lac.
The issues you talk about with student interest are general to any humanities prof. If the philosopher doesn’t like their research, then they chose a pretty crap career as a researcher, but it’s very hard to escape the fact that the humanities have to teach general education courses and students these days can hardly read, let alone analyze text.

This is not true, maybe 1/3 of the classes from a handful of the very top schools will go there. And even if it were true, that's a completely different level of applicant compared to someone inquiring about a master's program. Those phd programs themselves have 1% acceptance rate. And then, when you get it you will need to publish in philosophy journals which have the lowest acceptance rates of any field.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, Philosophy is an MPhil at Cambridge (an MA is something their undergrads automatically receive after a few years absent special circumstances) and at Oxford it's a BPhil because there's no undergraduate philosophy degree. Those are far and away the two most worthwhile graduate philosophy degrees in the UK for an American.

Getting an American Master's before a UK one would be looked at with skepticism. If you had an American masters, you'd apply to the PhD program. The quality of your institution and recommendations would matter by far the most then; not your undergraduate GPA.

In terms of your minimum GPA, American GPAs will be evaluated differently because UK programs don't care about your grades in non-related classes -- remember that they don't even have those in most UK programs. What you need is a good recommendation from a known academic who walks through your subject specific grades/credentials and explains how they relate & recommends you. If you're coming from an Ivy+ or a university with a solid philosophy department (e.g., Pitt, Rutgers), this shouldn't be difficult. Otherwise, I wouldn't hold out much hope if the GPA is truly below the minimum.

(I have a philosophy degree from one of these schools and can answer specific questions.)

Oxford and Cambridge have been around a long time. They don't need someone mansplaining someone's academic credentials. That is an insane suggestion. They have experts in admissions and existing academic debts who are fully capable of looking at an overseas student from pretty much anywhere, and figuring it out. If they require a minimum GPA then that is it, an absolute minimum.

You're wrong. There are classes they may or may not count towards the GPA and an academic can explain why they should or shouldn't be included in a way that's most helpful for a student. The Cambridge philosophy program is tiny. 15 first year grad students a year. They 100% do not go through every application with a fine tooth comb to calculate the GPA a variety of ways. If you have an American philosopher write a rec to a Cambridge philosopher in their field recommending an American student and explaining a favorable calculation of the GPA, they can absolutely use it to meet the minimum. I know this for a fact.

Sorry, no. They do not go through and work out the GPA. Did I say that? No. Why on earth should they? They ASK for the GPA and it is provided by the student's existing college. If it is still below the "minimum" then it is not going to be acceptable. It is going to need to be WAY over that.