Volleyball club- recap and thoughts

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Ironically, the one club clinic where she ended up on the lower court is the club she wants to play for the most. Why? Because the coaches were clear about why there were different courts. The lower court was for skills work with the goal of improving their skill very quickly. The upper court was gameplay for players that already had the skill. And the lower court was staffed and watched by the coaches for DD age group. By the end of the session both courts were running the same scrimmage - the upper court was just running it faster and more consistently. It was the only session where she came out a significantly better player than she was when she went in. It also helped that all the club's players from last year were genuinely welcoming new players into their teams/groups.

I'm sure some players left that gym knowing that they weren't going to make a team with the club. But I don't think any of them could say the club didn't take the time to really try to help them get better.

Just out of curiosity: are you talking about MOCO here? We had the same vibe there during the pre-tryout clinics. We had a pretty good experience with MVSA as well (probably the best experience in the way they split the teams, in terms of competitiveness), but some of the MVSA players were really unfriendly. They would cut each other a lot of slack, but they would be pretty mean when "outsiders" would make mistakes on the court.

I seriously doubt OP was talking about MOCO. MOCO can be super dismissive of some players at tryouts and it's pretty obvious to those on the "lower court" that they've already been ruled out, sometimes before anyone's taken a good look at them playing. And our DDs each played one season for MOCO, then never tried out with them again.

That was our experience as well. My DD had a sticker on the number saying to start on court 3 with a bunch of other kids with little experience. She felt like she was in rec league all over again with three touches being the exception rather than the rule. She felt like she was at the same level with the others because she could not find a position to make a difference. When she tried to set, the passes would go too low and at random places. She tried to pass, but the new setters could rarely set. When the setters would eventually set, the ball would be unhittable. She was never given the chance to play with more experienced kids. Most coaches were in the other gym to look at courts 1 and 2. Unlike what they said during the parent meeting, the kids on the lower court never had a chance. I wish I knew she would start on the 3rd court with no chance of moving up - I would have saved some time and money by not even signing up for the MOCO tryouts.

This wasn’t our experience at Moco. DD started out in court three but moved to court 2 quickly then to court 1 soon after. She was given an offer that night. I assume they recognized her from the clinics she did with them in the fall. She only tried out at clubs that “know” her otherwise how else do you stand out?

I am the PP you quoted above. Congratulations to your DD for getting a Moco offer! It is great that she was able to stand out. Knowing my DD's level, I was not hoping that she would make the first, maybe not even the 2nd Moco team. I was thinking she may have had a chance to make their 3rd team. I wish they moved her - even temporarily - on the second court to see her playing with better players. They could have moved her back to the 3rd court if she didn't have the skills, but - at least - I could not complain that they never gave her a shot. A few coaches knew her from Moco clinics (including pre-tryouts), but we couldn't do the fall program. I feel like they knew all along that she won't make a team and simply discarded her on the 3rd court without even pretending they were interested. This experience is going to save us a lot of money in the future because we will never do Moco clinics ever again.

Did you or your DD ask the MoCo coaches during the pre tryout clinic she attended whether she was good enough to make their teams? My DD attended the 16U-18U clinics and they was a conversation that the coaches offered to have with any player who wanted to stay after. That is definitely one way to save time and money!

We did. They offered advice on things to improve, but they never said she would not have any chance. They actually said they were looking forward to seeing her at the tryouts.

I think it's tough for coaches to tell kids they don't think they are good enough to make a team directly to their face. Much easier to have them come to tryouts and then just not send them an offer. Also, clubs have an incentive to have their tryouts as full as possible. They both get to collect the tryout fees and hedge their bets - they can queue up 4 or 5 second choices to make offers to if their first choice declines their offer.

All of that sucks for you and your DD and I am sorry she didn't at least get a fair shot at showing what she could do on one of the higher courts. Hopefully she found a team that's a good fit.

It's ok, we are back to our previous club. I never expected the coach to tell us "don't even bother to show up" because of all the reason you listed. However, if a kid is trying out, at least pretend to give her a fair shot instead of humiliating her for three hours on the third court with no coaches watching.

We didn't have that experience. We started on the 3s court too. Didn't attend any prep clinics. DD tried out for both U13 & U14. Coaches from all three teams for each age group were on the 3s court at the start in the back by the stage and on the sidelines. We talked to some of the parents watching and some of the players on the 3s court at the start were returning club players. They ran a 6v6 drill to start and then switched to individual passing & hitting drills. For U13 DD got move up during the passing drills ~40 minutes in and stayed on the 2nd court for the rest of the tryout. For U14 she moved up about 50-60 minutes in, and then came back down about halfway through the tryouts. In both tryouts there were a lot of players moved up from the 3rd court and down from the other courts in the first hour or so.

Watching the U14 top court was almost like watching a completely different sport. We went into tryouts thinking she had a shot at 14s, we walked out knowing she didn't. Ended up getting a 3s team waitlist for U13 and no offer for a U14 team.

The hardest part about tryouts at every club we've tried out for is that eventually they have to separate players by ability level. There aren't many times in a 13 years olds life when they get immediate feedback about how someone else views them. If your DD isn't in the upper group at any of those tryouts, its hard for them to handle and often just as hard or harder for parents. We did 4 different clubs and every one of them sorted players. We dealt with some tears after several of them.

Just curious, what's your previous club that you are back at?

Wait a second: the coaches made it clear that no parents were allowed at tryouts. The parents I saw watching the tryouts were in the registration area, but they could only watch the 3rd court. How did you get to watch the top courts?

Weight room.

Can you see from the weigh room? I had the feeling that it's just the door that connects to the gym. Did they allowed parents in the weight room despite being clear that parents were not allowed at the tryouts?

For MOCO? Every year we tried out, parents just lurked way over on the side near the exit but we were obviously watching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ironically, the one club clinic where she ended up on the lower court is the club she wants to play for the most. Why? Because the coaches were clear about why there were different courts. The lower court was for skills work with the goal of improving their skill very quickly. The upper court was gameplay for players that already had the skill. And the lower court was staffed and watched by the coaches for DD age group. By the end of the session both courts were running the same scrimmage - the upper court was just running it faster and more consistently. It was the only session where she came out a significantly better player than she was when she went in. It also helped that all the club's players from last year were genuinely welcoming new players into their teams/groups.

I'm sure some players left that gym knowing that they weren't going to make a team with the club. But I don't think any of them could say the club didn't take the time to really try to help them get better.

Just out of curiosity: are you talking about MOCO here? We had the same vibe there during the pre-tryout clinics. We had a pretty good experience with MVSA as well (probably the best experience in the way they split the teams, in terms of competitiveness), but some of the MVSA players were really unfriendly. They would cut each other a lot of slack, but they would be pretty mean when "outsiders" would make mistakes on the court.

I seriously doubt OP was talking about MOCO. MOCO can be super dismissive of some players at tryouts and it's pretty obvious to those on the "lower court" that they've already been ruled out, sometimes before anyone's taken a good look at them playing. And our DDs each played one season for MOCO, then never tried out with them again.

That was our experience as well. My DD had a sticker on the number saying to start on court 3 with a bunch of other kids with little experience. She felt like she was in rec league all over again with three touches being the exception rather than the rule. She felt like she was at the same level with the others because she could not find a position to make a difference. When she tried to set, the passes would go too low and at random places. She tried to pass, but the new setters could rarely set. When the setters would eventually set, the ball would be unhittable. She was never given the chance to play with more experienced kids. Most coaches were in the other gym to look at courts 1 and 2. Unlike what they said during the parent meeting, the kids on the lower court never had a chance. I wish I knew she would start on the 3rd court with no chance of moving up - I would have saved some time and money by not even signing up for the MOCO tryouts.

This wasn’t our experience at Moco. DD started out in court three but moved to court 2 quickly then to court 1 soon after. She was given an offer that night. I assume they recognized her from the clinics she did with them in the fall. She only tried out at clubs that “know” her otherwise how else do you stand out?

I am the PP you quoted above. Congratulations to your DD for getting a Moco offer! It is great that she was able to stand out. Knowing my DD's level, I was not hoping that she would make the first, maybe not even the 2nd Moco team. I was thinking she may have had a chance to make their 3rd team. I wish they moved her - even temporarily - on the second court to see her playing with better players. They could have moved her back to the 3rd court if she didn't have the skills, but - at least - I could not complain that they never gave her a shot. A few coaches knew her from Moco clinics (including pre-tryouts), but we couldn't do the fall program. I feel like they knew all along that she won't make a team and simply discarded her on the 3rd court without even pretending they were interested. This experience is going to save us a lot of money in the future because we will never do Moco clinics ever again.

Did you or your DD ask the MoCo coaches during the pre tryout clinic she attended whether she was good enough to make their teams? My DD attended the 16U-18U clinics and they was a conversation that the coaches offered to have with any player who wanted to stay after. That is definitely one way to save time and money!

We did. They offered advice on things to improve, but they never said she would not have any chance. They actually said they were looking forward to seeing her at the tryouts.

I think it's tough for coaches to tell kids they don't think they are good enough to make a team directly to their face. Much easier to have them come to tryouts and then just not send them an offer. Also, clubs have an incentive to have their tryouts as full as possible. They both get to collect the tryout fees and hedge their bets - they can queue up 4 or 5 second choices to make offers to if their first choice declines their offer.

All of that sucks for you and your DD and I am sorry she didn't at least get a fair shot at showing what she could do on one of the higher courts. Hopefully she found a team that's a good fit.

It's ok, we are back to our previous club. I never expected the coach to tell us "don't even bother to show up" because of all the reason you listed. However, if a kid is trying out, at least pretend to give her a fair shot instead of humiliating her for three hours on the third court with no coaches watching.

We didn't have that experience. We started on the 3s court too. Didn't attend any prep clinics. DD tried out for both U13 & U14. Coaches from all three teams for each age group were on the 3s court at the start in the back by the stage and on the sidelines. We talked to some of the parents watching and some of the players on the 3s court at the start were returning club players. They ran a 6v6 drill to start and then switched to individual passing & hitting drills. For U13 DD got move up during the passing drills ~40 minutes in and stayed on the 2nd court for the rest of the tryout. For U14 she moved up about 50-60 minutes in, and then came back down about halfway through the tryouts. In both tryouts there were a lot of players moved up from the 3rd court and down from the other courts in the first hour or so.

Watching the U14 top court was almost like watching a completely different sport. We went into tryouts thinking she had a shot at 14s, we walked out knowing she didn't. Ended up getting a 3s team waitlist for U13 and no offer for a U14 team.

The hardest part about tryouts at every club we've tried out for is that eventually they have to separate players by ability level. There aren't many times in a 13 years olds life when they get immediate feedback about how someone else views them. If your DD isn't in the upper group at any of those tryouts, its hard for them to handle and often just as hard or harder for parents. We did 4 different clubs and every one of them sorted players. We dealt with some tears after several of them.

Just curious, what's your previous club that you are back at?

Wait a second: the coaches made it clear that no parents were allowed at tryouts. The parents I saw watching the tryouts were in the registration area, but they could only watch the 3rd court. How did you get to watch the top courts?

Weight room.

Can you see from the weigh room? I had the feeling that it's just the door that connects to the gym. Did they allowed parents in the weight room despite being clear that parents were not allowed at the tryouts?

For MOCO? Every year we tried out, parents just lurked way over on the side near the exit but we were obviously watching.

So the rules at Moco are only for those who follow them. This is just great!

[Anonymous]

There are resources that allow you to research volleyball clubs and it is in your best interest to do that. https://www.novavolleyballalliance.org/
is a great resource for parents and explains ALL the different levels and options
https://advancedeventsystems.com/rankings
you can use AES to look at the rankings of specific club teams. Look at the rankings from years past.

Club volleyball is expensive. Whatever they are charging you as fees you should add an additional 50-75% more to cover travel expenses for you and the rest of your family. The lion's share of volleyball fees pays for court time and coaches' stipends. Coaches are not making a living off these fees. Most make less that 4K/year. Court time is expensive.

Be warned, most clubs will tell you that they are "elite" or "open" level programs. They know that is what you want to hear. Who doesn't want to hear that their kid is an elite player? 10% of all the players in an age group are truly "elite" players and yet the clubs will tell you all their players are "elite". They aren't. The truly elite clubs always enter "open" level tournaments and finish in the top half. Many other clubs enter "open" level because they advertised themselves as elite and just get slaughtered. Players don't learn much in that environment. Play for a club that will help them improve and play in tournaments at the appropriate level.

[Anonymous]

There is a disturbance in the Force at the U16 level, Paramount is walking the walk. Not sure if there has been some player shuffling amongst the top teams in CHRVA this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a disturbance in the Force at the U16 level, Paramount is walking the walk. Not sure if there has been some player shuffling amongst the top teams in CHRVA this year.

say more.... sounds like you just want to stir up some drama...

the rosters are available it quite easy to see who moved where.

And what do you mean by walking the walk? Paramount lost to Triangle Black at Triple Crown. VA Jrs beat Triangle Black at City of Oaks. Metro was out first round of Gold at Cap Classic. Metro lost a set to VA Elite at Cap Classic. Metro lost a set to VA Jrs. at City of Oaks. Paramount beat Metro at MAPL. MDJrs and BRVA lost top players and not just to other clubs. BRVAs stand out player that is amazing is focusing on beach so not playing indoor anymore.

Seems like U16 talent is spread out instead of being concentrated just on Metro which is great; this means more playing time for talented players and better overall development.

The goal and hope is for clubs across the CHRVA region to be strong and not just concentrated on a couple teams. This would elevate CHRVA in general which benefits all.

Yes Paramount is supposedly the most stacked but it's battling internal playing time drama as well as a lot of bad press b/c of the coaches overall demenor. Team vibe impacts how they play and overall mental health of the girls. So if that's what you mean by walking the walk then maybe dig in a little more to find out what's really going on there...

[Anonymous]

Are we back at bickering how much the top teams in the area suck and how they fail to provide opportunities to their players? Let me know if I should get my popcorn ready. I miss all the drama - we should make this thread great again!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are we back at bickering how much the top teams in the area suck and how they fail to provide opportunities to their players? Let me know if I should get my popcorn ready. I miss all the drama - we should make this thread great again!

You should be so proud of your wit. Yes please do pop some popcorn sweetie, sounds like you don’t really have much else going on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are we back at bickering how much the top teams in the area suck and how they fail to provide opportunities to their players? Let me know if I should get my popcorn ready. I miss all the drama - we should make this thread great again!

You should be so proud of your wit. Yes please do pop some popcorn sweetie, sounds like you don’t really have much else going on.

Luckily, you seem to have a lot going on. Of course, one of those things involves commenting on anonymous forums about what other people have going on in their lives. You must be living the dream!

[Anonymous]

Curious if the 16s had many college coaches watching at Capital Hill?

[FPYCparent]

Not a 16s parent, but there were a good number of college coaches walking around the convention center during Cap Hill. My 17s kid had a Zoom call with a coach on Friday night and she said the coach was at her team's court the next day. On Sunday, a Randolph Macon coach sat beside me for a few minutes while I was waiting for the match on an adjacent court to end. I was kinda surprised that the RM coach asked me a question or two.

I'm sure there were a few coaches there to look at players from the more "popular" clubs like Triangle and Metro. ECJVC 17s has an NC State commit that always draws attention. I don't know if college coaches take PrepVolleyball writeups seriously, but the athletes that were mentioned probably got some extra attention. However, I suspect that the high-profile college programs were likely focused on the event in Kansas City.

.

[Anonymous]

Huge shake-up today at 18s CHRVA Bid Regionals. Both Metro and VAE walked away bid-less. Metro, VAE, VAJRS and Columbia all finished tied for 5th place. Paramount beat Metro 18 Travel in the quarterfinal match, knocking Metro out of bid contention. MVSA nearly beat Metro in pool play. However, Paramount ended up losing to Liberty Elite in the Finals, so the final finishes were: (1) Liberty (2) Paramount (3) MVSA (4) MDJRS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Huge shake-up today at 18s CHRVA Bid Regionals. Both Metro and VAE walked away bid-less. Metro, VAE, VAJRS and Columbia all finished tied for 5th place. Paramount beat Metro 18 Travel in the quarterfinal match, knocking Metro out of bid contention. MVSA nearly beat Metro in pool play. However, Paramount ended up losing to Liberty Elite in the Finals, so the final finishes were: (1) Liberty (2) Paramount (3) MVSA (4) MDJRS.

Is this the first time Metro 18 not in top 4 finish at Chrva regionals? We know Metro director gave up this team but they should be able to get a bid from qualifiers. I feel sorry for these talents.

[Anonymous]

FPYCparent wrote:Not a 16s parent, but there were a good number of college coaches walking around the convention center during Cap Hill. My 17s kid had a Zoom call with a coach on Friday night and she said the coach was at her team's court the next day. On Sunday, a Randolph Macon coach sat beside me for a few minutes while I was waiting for the match on an adjacent court to end. I was kinda surprised that the RM coach asked me a question or two.

I'm sure there were a few coaches there to look at players from the more "popular" clubs like Triangle and Metro. ECJVC 17s has an NC State commit that always draws attention. I don't know if college coaches take PrepVolleyball writeups seriously, but the athletes that were mentioned probably got some extra attention. However, I suspect that the high-profile college programs were likely focused on the event Kansas City.[/


16's parent and there were some, especially the east coast schools. However, many of the mid tier to top programs go to Triple Crown and not cap classic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Huge shake-up today at 18s CHRVA Bid Regionals. Both Metro and VAE walked away bid-less. Metro, VAE, VAJRS and Columbia all finished tied for 5th place. Paramount beat Metro 18 Travel in the quarterfinal match, knocking Metro out of bid contention. MVSA nearly beat Metro in pool play. However, Paramount ended up losing to Liberty Elite in the Finals, so the final finishes were: (1) Liberty (2) Paramount (3) MVSA (4) MDJRS.

How does region allocate any reallocation or trickle down bids? Do they have play off matches for 5th and 6th place?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huge shake-up today at 18s CHRVA Bid Regionals. Both Metro and VAE walked away bid-less. Metro, VAE, VAJRS and Columbia all finished tied for 5th place. Paramount beat Metro 18 Travel in the quarterfinal match, knocking Metro out of bid contention. MVSA nearly beat Metro in pool play. However, Paramount ended up losing to Liberty Elite in the Finals, so the final finishes were: (1) Liberty (2) Paramount (3) MVSA (4) MDJRS.

How does region allocate any reallocation or trickle down bids? Do they have play off matches for 5th and 6th place?

The Region seems to change their policy every year about how they handle things like this. Last year they played tiebreaker matches to determine who finished 5th and 6th. This year they didn’t. My guess is that they will instead use set % to determine 5th-8th place. Based on the results from yesterday, Metro had the best set % of all the 5th place teams, so they would be the first in line for a reallocated bid.